Voices: From hero to zero: How did faith in Boris Johnson’s premiership crumble in less than three years?

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Why aren't the E.U workers returning to work in the U.K ?

They are still allowed to return to the UK and work .

Not since we left the EU they are not, not without the individual and their UK employer jumping through numerous hoops and preparing reams of paperwork.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

The shortage of staff in the aviation industry is caused by the industry laying everyone off during the Covid pandemic and suddenly being taken by surprise now that restrictions have been eased and now more staff are required .

   Covid restrictions were suddenly lifted  and the airports had to fill vacancies that take months to train for .

  Staff shortages are because of Covid .

I agree with you up to a point. The relatively sudden lifting of Covid restrictions meant that the Aviation industry had little time to get back to a normal operational level.

 

However, the effect was enhanced by Brexit. 30+% of staff in UK airports were EU nationals, and many (most?) left the UK during Covid and have not returned. No other nation in Europe is suffering such severe disruption at its' airports as the UK, and the reason for this is that there is more availability of fully-trained staff who might (pre-Brexit) have been tempted by a job in the UK.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

E.U Doctors can apply for work permits to work in the U.K

Pre-Brexit they didn't need work permits. They could land in the UK and apply for jobs while here. Skilled professionals such as doctors are in demand everywhere, why go through the hassle of complying with requirements when elsewhere, you don't need to?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

Not since we left the EU they are not, not without the individual and their UK employer jumping through numerous hoops and preparing reams of paperwork.

 

 

If E.U citizens were working in the U.K prior to Covid, they would have a Visa that allows them to live and work in the U.K and that visa only expires if they are out the UK for more than five years . 

  E.U Citizens who were working in the U.K prior to Covid can come back to the U.K if they want to 

[Loiner]

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

E.U Citizens who were working in the U.K prior to Covid can come back to the U.K if they want to 

6.2 million of them applied for UK settlement. Surely that must be enough to keep our cheap labour supporters happy?

Are they all still here, or just spending the last of their furlough cash at home before coming back to sign on for some benefits?

[RayC]

21 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If E.U citizens were working in the U.K prior to Covid, they would have a Visa that allows them to live and work in the U.K and that visa only expires if they are out the UK for more than five years . 

  E.U Citizens who were working in the U.K prior to Covid can come back to the U.K if they want to 

Not unless they applied for, and were granted 'settled status' they can't. 

 

There is no doubt that the restriction on freedom of movement is an impediment to EU nationals applying for jobs in the UK.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

Not unless they applied for, and were granted 'settled status' they can't. 

 

There is no doubt that the restriction on freedom of movement is an impediment to EU nationals applying for jobs in the UK.

E.U Nationals who were working in the UK prior to Covid were required to apply for a settlement visa  if they intended to stay and work in the U.K after UKs E.U exit , they would have had a settlement visa .

 Everyone who was in the Country from the E,U could have applied for a settlement visa , you just had to register online and there were no other requirements to stop people applying 

[RayC]

14 minutes ago, Loiner said:

6.2 million of them applied for UK settlement. Surely that must be enough to keep our cheap labour supporters happy?

You keep on about cheap labour. Does this mean EU nationals are paid less than their UK counterparts? If so, I would have thought that you'd be in favour of that? Clever UK employers getting one over on Johnny Foreigner.

 

14 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Are they all still here, or just spending the last of their furlough cash at home before coming back to sign on for some benefits?

If they are then they are missing a trick if they are looking for the country with the most generous welfare benefits. They'd be better off in France, Belgium or Italy amongst others.

[RayC]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

E.U Nationals who were working in the UK prior to Covid were required to apply for a settlement visa  if they intended to stay and work in the U.K after UKs E.U exit , they would have had a settlement visa .

 Everyone who was in the Country from the E,U could have applied for a settlement visa , you just had to register online and there were no other requirements to stop people applying 

We've established that. It doesn't address my point that restricting freedom of movement is an impediment to labour mobility.

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

We've established that. It doesn't address my point that restricting freedom of movement is an impediment to labour mobility.

Yes, it stops the endless flow of E.U cheap labour into the U.K workforce and the U.K will need to train British people to do certain  work, instead of taking workers from other Countries .

   Like Poland taking 20 years to train one of its citizens to become a Doctor and as soon as they qualify , they leave and go and work elsewhere and Poland then has a shortage of Doctors!!!!!!!!

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, it stops the endless flow of E.U cheap labour into the U.K workforce and the U.K will need to train British people to do certain  work, instead of taking workers from other Countries .

   Like Poland taking 20 years to train one of its citizens to become a Doctor and as soon as they qualify , they leave and go and work elsewhere and Poland then has a shortage of Doctors!!!!!!!!

I agree with you. Countries are happy to avoid training staff by poaching them from other countries but then they bitch when companies set up shop in third world countries to avoid paying higher wages.

[RayC]

31 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, it stops the endless flow of E.U cheap labour into the U.K workforce and the U.K will need to train British people to do certain  work, instead of taking workers from other Countries .

   Like Poland taking 20 years to train one of its citizens to become a Doctor and as soon as they qualify , they leave and go and work elsewhere and Poland then has a shortage of Doctors!!!!!!!!

There was nothing to stop the UK training its' workforce while it was a member of the EU. An UK industrial strategy containing incentives for industry to do so could have been introduced.

 

The problems faced by the Polish health service are more deep-seated than simply stopping their doctors from emigrating. In 2020, only 9% of qualified doctors emigrated from Poland. Not great but not an insurmountable problem in itself. The bigger problem is a chronic lack of investment.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

There was nothing to stop the UK training its' workforce while it was a member of the EU. An UK industrial strategy containing incentives for industry to do so could have been introduced.

 

 

Cost and profit .

Rather than train a U.K schoolkid for four years to do an apprenticeship , it was cheaper to hire  Eastern Europe builders .

  Yes, the U.K Gov SHOULD have trained its workforce  , but it didnt .

Companies preferred cheap E.U workers 

[sawadee1947]

On 6/7/2022 at 4:15 AM, JonnyF said:

Hero to Zero?

 

He got Brexit done, negotiated the country's way through Covid and has just won a no confidence vote meaning he is immune to a leadership challenge for 12 more months. Best of all, the cherry on the icing on the cake is that the main opposition is the Labour Party, consisting of the likes of Dianne Abbot, David Lammy, Angela Rayner and led by Keir Starmer ????. So no matter how bad he looks (and he has looked pretty bad at times), the clowns opposite him always make him look mildly competent by comparison.

 

Hardly Zero. Sitting pretty would be a more accurate description. 

I like your Humor and Jokes. Had had of a good laugh.☺️

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Cost and profit .

Rather than train a U.K schoolkid for four years to do an apprenticeship , it was cheaper to hire  Eastern Europe builders .

  Yes, the U.K Gov SHOULD have trained its workforce  , but it didnt .

Companies preferred cheap E.U workers 

Agreed.

 

But if the UK government had been so concerned about the training given to the UK workforce, it could have subsided it (in a way that would not have broken EU state subsidy rules).

[candide]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

Agreed.

 

But if the UK government had been so concerned about the training given to the UK workforce, it could have subsided it (in a way that would not have broken EU state subsidy rules).

You mean the current clowns could have a capacity to anticipate? Come on, that's not realistic.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, candide said:

You mean the current clowns could have a capacity to anticipate? Come on, that's not realistic.

OK, what is your solution to the problem ?

[candide]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, what is your solution to the problem ?

That's the Brexiters' duty to find solutions to the problems they created, not mine.

[Mac Mickmanus]

14 minutes ago, candide said:

That's the Brexiters' duty to find solutions to the problems they created, not mine.

Well keep out of the discussion then , if you aren't going to contribute 

[candide]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well keep out of the discussion then , if you aren't going to contribute 

You and me have absolutely no power to change anything. It's all about commenting and discussing.

 

[Slip]

9 hours ago, Loiner said:

Which part? I can’t be expected to attend to every piece of nonsense you post. Was it something important you needed guidance on?

Too busy posting utter drivel yourself.  The day you have any useful guidance to offer will be one to note.  It was a response to some tosh you posted about the bbc being biased.  So that is 2 questions you have now failed to answer.

[JonnyF]

7 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

I like your Humor and Jokes. Had had of a good laugh.☺️

I'm glad you had a good chuckle.

 

If you want side splitting laughter, may I suggest a look at the Shadow Cabinet ????.

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If E.U citizens were working in the U.K prior to Covid, they would have a Visa that allows them to live and work in the U.K and that visa only expires if they are out the UK for more than five years . 

  E.U Citizens who were working in the U.K prior to Covid can come back to the U.K if they want to 

As I understand it, they had to have had 5 years of continuous residence in the UK to qualify for settled status.

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/what-settled-and-presettled-status-means

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As I understand it, they had to have had 5 years of continuous residence in the UK to qualify for settled status.

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/what-settled-and-presettled-status-means

"Continuous residency" for five years  meant spending at least 6 months per year in the UK for the previous five years 

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

"Continuous residency" for five years  meant spending at least 6 months per year in the UK for the previous five years 

But that's very significantly different from what you previously claimed:

" Everyone who was in the Country from the E,U could have applied for a settlement visa , you just had to register online and there were no other requirements to stop people applying" 

Clearly there were other requirements.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But that's very significantly different from what you previously claimed:

" Everyone who was in the Country from the E,U could have applied for a settlement visa , you just had to register online and there were no other requirements to stop people applying" 

Clearly there were other requirements.

 

Well yes , that was for E.U Citizens living in the U.K since the Brexit vote  

[Loiner]

4 hours ago, Slip said:

Too busy posting utter drivel yourself.  The day you have any useful guidance to offer will be one to note.  It was a response to some tosh you posted about the bbc being biased.  So that is 2 questions you have now failed to answer.

I had a look through this thread and couldn't see anything from you. Maybe it was one of your baiting posts which was deleted?

 

For your ongoing guidance: and in answer to the one question I can find:: Yes, the BBC is inherently biased and incapable of providing a balanced view as it is stuffed to the gunnels with raging lefties. 

[Loiner]

12 hours ago, RayC said:

You keep on about cheap labour. Does this mean EU nationals are paid less than their UK counterparts? If so, I would have thought that you'd be in favour of that? Clever UK employers getting one over on Johnny Foreigner.

 

If they are then they are missing a trick if they are looking for the country with the most generous welfare benefits. They'd be better off in France, Belgium or Italy amongst others.

Cheap EU labour dragged down the rates for all workers in various industries. 
 

I’ve never tried sponging benefits off France, Belgium or Italy. Didn’t you find that they made it too difficult for non-nationals?

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Cost and profit .

Rather than train a U.K schoolkid for four years to do an apprenticeship , it was cheaper to hire  Eastern Europe builders .

  Yes, the U.K Gov SHOULD have trained its workforce  , but it didnt .

Companies preferred cheap E.U workers 

Frequently report during the run up to Brexit, British employers across any sector that required physical work (building/farming/fishing/forestry/infrastructure construction etc) all complained that British ‘kids’ were not applying for apprenticeships/jobs on offer.

 

British ‘Kids’ just won’t have it.

[Loiner]

12 hours ago, RayC said:

 

 

There is no doubt that the restriction on freedom of movement is an impediment to EU nationals applying for jobs in the UK.

Yes, that’s why we voted for it and Brexit. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Loiner said:

Cheap EU labour dragged down the rates for all workers in various industries. 
 

I’ve never tried sponging benefits off France, Belgium or Italy. Didn’t you find that they made it too difficult for non-nationals?

So these EU workers were driving down wages while at the same time sponging of benefits?

 

Or is this just another example of the baseless and derogatory views that was behind Brexit?

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Cheap EU labour dragged down the rates for all workers in various industries. 

Or maybe it was the likes of supermarkets squeezing suppliers that kept wage rates artificially low. 

 

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

I’ve never tried sponging benefits off France, Belgium or Italy. Didn’t you find that they made it too difficult for non-nationals?

Then how would you know anything about the practical difficulties of getting benefits abroad or did you find that simple to get benefits in the UK that you can't believe there is an easier system?

 

I can't provide details of any personal experience with applying for benefits overseas as I've never done so.