Cabinet divisions break out over U.K. plan to override Brexit treaty

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It is rather difficult for Boris .

The E.U wanting one thing and Irish wanting something else

He cannot agree to both things because they are contradictory .

 

It’s not difficult at all, his government negotiated the terms of a treaty then he signed the treaty.

 

He then made a big fuss about having got Brexit done.

 

Now he wants to unilaterally break the treaty his own government negotiated and he himself signed.

 

What an utterly shameless shambles.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not difficult at all, his government negotiated the terms of a treaty then he signed the treaty.

 

He then made a big fuss about having got Brexit done.

 

Now he wants to unilaterally break the treaty his own government negotiated and he himself signed.

 

What an utterly shameless shambles.

 

 

That is because there's been a Political change in Northern Ireland and they seem to now want a rule change 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its quite clearly written , it does make sense . 

If you need me to explain, you will have to wait for a few hours as I need to go out now 

Off you go then.

 

Your two comments will still be plainly contradictory nonsense when you return.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is because there's been a Political change in Northern Ireland and they seem to now want a rule change 

The only side wanting a change is the unionists, and they lost the election.

 

Brexit is done, the ink is dry.

 

Pull together now old chap, make it work…. and all that.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Off you go then.

 

Your two comments will still be plainly contradictory nonsense when you return.

Briefly : The election was to nominate the leader of Northern Ireland .

The election wasn't about unification .

Any unification referendum would need more than 50 % of the vote.

Sinn Fein won 29 % of the vote .

If this would have been a vote on Unification, Sinn Fein would probably have lost 

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Briefly : The election was to nominate the leader of Northern Ireland .

The election wasn't about unification .

Any unification referendum would need more than 50 % of the vote.

Sinn Fein won 29 % of the vote .

If this would have been a vote on Unification, Sinn Fein would probably have lost 

No, the election was for the devolved legislature. The people were given the opportunity to elect representatives of their choice. 
 

The unionists by preventing the assembly from meeting and passing legislation  in Stormont are not respecting the vote. 

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, thats right .

The E.U is causing problems between the U.K.,  Northern Ireland and Ireland .

Finally….. and EU thereby breaching the treaty conditions of uk sovereignty & good faith cleverly inserted by UK. complete justification to revoke NI Protocol IF EU ignore UK final warning to cease & desist from the excessive spiteful customs checks between Britain & NI. ????????

[TropicalGuy]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not difficult at all, his government negotiated the terms of a treaty then he signed the treaty.

 

He then made a big fuss about having got Brexit done.

 

Now he wants to unilaterally break the treaty his own government negotiated and he himself signed.

 

What an utterly shameless shambles.

 

 

No. Naive. EU spiteful excessive disruptive customs checks, WITHIN UK, are in flagrant breach of agreement conditions of protecting UK sovereignty & acting in good faith ( cleverly inserted by UK for JUST this hostile event). ????

 

Final Warning for EU to cease & desist or NI Protocol legally goes. ????

[TropicalGuy]

32 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No it cannot. 
 

Please do some research before coming up with such patently incorrect information. 
 

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/what-does-the-lack-of-a-speaker-mean-for-the-stormont-assembly-41646652.html

Time now to revoke the UK Devolved Parliaments. All these little regional tinpot bureaucrats have proven completely useless in governing even their tiny regions WITH central UK Budget support. Just look at the massive decline of services in Scotland after 15 years of SNP governing ! ????Now this business with Stormont. Enough. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Why would anyone in NI want to change the NI Protocol, the economy of NI is out performing that of the rest of the UK:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3b5059c4-4ef1-44d1-ae1f-43a875efb7ca

 

Perhaps Rees Mogg could gather a few ‘Brexit Opportunity’ hints from the province, or would doing so upset his chums in the ERG.

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Time now to revoke the UK Devolved Parliaments. All these little regional tinpot bureaucrats have proven completely useless in governing even their tiny regions WITH central UK Budget support. Just look at the massive decline of services in Scotland after 15 years of SNP governing ! ????Now this business with Stormont. Enough. 

You need to research The Good Friday Agreement and the importance a power sharing devolved government plays in it. 
 

https://education.niassembly.gov.uk/post_16/snapshots_of_devolution/gfa/power_sharing

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

No. Naive. EU spiteful excessive disruptive customs checks, WITHIN UK, are in flagrant breach of agreement conditions of protecting UK sovereignty & acting in good faith ( cleverly inserted by UK for JUST this hostile event). ????

 

Final Warning for EU to cease & desist or NI Protocol legally goes. ????

What?

 

EU customs officers are checking goods in the UK?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Time now to revoke the UK Devolved Parliaments. All these little regional tinpot bureaucrats have proven completely useless in governing even their tiny regions WITH central UK Budget support. Just look at the massive decline of services in Scotland after 15 years of SNP governing ! ????Now this business with Stormont. Enough. 

Calm down.

 

WRT NI and the ‘NI devolved parliament’ the UK will do as Washington tells it.

[TropicalGuy]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

You also need to research The Good Friday Agreement and the importance a power sharing devolved government plays in it. 
 

https://education.niassembly.gov.uk/post_16/snapshots_of_devolution/gfa/power_sharing

Relegate that to local councils and NI institutions . Whose running UK anyway ? London or Dublin / Washington ? If the later they can bloody pay for it. 

[RayC]

55 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I thought Brexit was done?

 

 

It is. You're watching a repeat on 'Dave'.

 

Spoiler alert: It didn't turn out so great for us Brits.

[TropicalGuy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Calm down.

 

WRT NI and the ‘NI devolved parliament’ the UK will do as Washington tells it.

Then they & Dublin can pay for operating NI their way. 

[TropicalGuy]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

It is. You're watching a repeat on 'Dave'.

 

Spoiler alert: It didn't turn out so great for us Brits.

You mean economically ? Too early to tell. Sovereignty- wise it’s been terrific from day one. 

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Relegate that to local councils and NI institutions . Whose running UK anyway ? London or Dublin / Washington ? If the later they can bloody pay for it. 

Nope. 
 

The Northern Ireland Assembly is intrinsically intertwined with The Good Friday Agreement. 
 

An agreement that effectively ended The Troubles in the Ulster counties. 

[RayC]

57 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It is rather difficult for Boris .

The E.U wanting one thing and Irish wanting something else

He cannot agree to both things because they are contradictory .

 

I assume by Irish you mean the DUP?

 

If so, I agree. Which begs the question: If Johnson knew this, why did he sign the Agreement?

 

You can't have a border and no border simultaneously in January 2020, now or at any time in the future, unless some Einstein-like mathematical genius comes along and destroys the rules of deductive logic. Maybe that's the plan?

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

I assume by Irish you mean the DUP?

 

If so, I agree. Which begs the question: If Johnson knew this, why did he sign the Agreement?

 

You can't have a border and no border simultaneously in January 2020, now or at any time in the future, unless some Einstein-like mathematical genius comes along and destroys the rules of deductive logic. Maybe that's the plan?

Perhaps not Einstein.

 

Schrödinger's border.

 

Sorted!

[candide]

44 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

No. Naive. EU spiteful excessive disruptive customs checks, WITHIN UK, are in flagrant breach of agreement conditions of protecting UK sovereignty & acting in good faith ( cleverly inserted by UK for JUST this hostile event). ????

 

Final Warning for EU to cease & desist or NI Protocol legally goes. ????

Which excessive checks? The EU is applying the agreement signed. The EU is applying the same checks it also applies to other third countries. Not doing so would be a breach of WTO rules.

Actually, the only reason UK. makes less checks than the EU, is that the current clowns governing UK have been unable to implement a proper border check system. 

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-outsource-border-check-eu-brexit/

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is because there's been a Political change in Northern Ireland and they seem to now want a rule change 

That has nothing to do with it. Some simple "'Yes'/'No' answer" questions:

 

Were the objections of the DUP to a border down the Irish Sea known before the Brexit Agreement was signed?

 

Could the reactions of the DUP to the UK disregarding the DUP's objections be foreseen?

 

Did the UK government enact any legislation to deal with the DUP's objectives immediately before or shortly after the signing of the Brexit Agreement?

 

Therefore logically,

 

Can the EU be blamed for the chaotic situation we now find ourselves in?

[Mac Mickmanus]

23 minutes ago, RayC said:

I assume by Irish you mean the DUP?

 

If so, I agree. Which begs the question: If Johnson knew this, why did he sign the Agreement?

 

You can't have a border and no border simultaneously in January 2020, now or at any time in the future, unless some Einstein-like mathematical genius comes along and destroys the rules of deductive logic. Maybe that's the plan?

The border was moved out to the sea , so there was a border(at sea) and there wasn't a border(on land)

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

That has nothing to do with it. Some simple "'Yes'/'No' answer" questions:

 

Were the objections of the DUP to a border down the Irish Sea known before the Brexit Agreement was signed?

 

Could the reactions of the DUP to the UK disregarding the DUP's objections be foreseen?

 

Did the UK government enact any legislation to deal with the DUP's objectives immediately before or shortly after the signing of the Brexit Agreement?

 

Therefore logically,

 

Can the EU be blamed for the chaotic situation we now find ourselves in?

The Irish have been discussing  and squabbling and disagreeing  for the last 300 years , just let them get on with it and don't get involved 

[RayC]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The border was moved out to the sea , so there was a border(at sea) and there wasn't a border(on land)

No matter what way you dress it up, it's a border and its' existence was unacceptable to the DUP.

[RayC]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Irish have been discussing  and squabbling and disagreeing  for the last 300 years , just let them get on with it and don't get involved 

Err ... NI is part of the UK. Shouldn't Westminster be taking an interest in its' affairs and trying to solve any problems.

[RayC]

As an aside, what's the Brexiters reaction to the news that their hero is the one who apparently wants to take a softer line with the EU?

 

Is it now 'Off to the Tower' with him and 'All Hail, Queen Lizzie (Truss)'?

[Mac Mickmanus]

45 minutes ago, RayC said:

As an aside, what's the Brexiters reaction to the news that their hero is the one who apparently wants to take a softer line with the EU?

 

Is it now 'Off to the Tower' with him and 'All Hail, Queen Lizzie (Truss)'?

He got Brexit done . 

Thats all we wanted 

No ones really bothered about the Irish border or even Irish unification 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

No matter what way you dress it up, it's a border and its' existence was unacceptable to the DUP.

The DUP want a hard border between North and South Ireland, this is in direct conflict with the Good Friday Agreement.

 

Neither the EU not Washington will accept dismantling of the Good Friday agreement.

 

Johnson is playing with fire.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

He got Brexit done . 

Thats all we wanted 

No ones really bothered about the Irish border or even Irish unification 

If he got ‘Brexit Done’ why does he now want to undo that which he signed up to?