Thai Anti Farang Topic...

[PaulUSA302]

Did you read that I am relating to you what was told to me by "Real Thai's" who live in Thailand? Not my prespective of their thoughts, but their thoughts.

My dearest Paul,

I suggest that your observations have much to do from the places you are observing from. Widen your experience of Thailand and you will undoubtedly see a wider perspective which you will enjoy deeply.

Drop by Hua Hin for a cup of coffee and a free airplane ride sometime!

[Tarragona]

Did you read that I am relating to you what was told to me by "Real Thai's" who live in Thailand? Not my prespective of their thoughts, but their thoughts.

In that case, the problem quite clearly relates to the farangs that your friends have met and seen. I must say I've come across the type of farang they're talking about too and, yes, that can have a negative effect that extends to others.

I'm sorry that your friends have never been in a position where they are able to meet farangs who do not look down on Thai culture or throw their money around like they own the country (maybe you could introduce them to some?).

It's quite natural for such stereotypes to arise, I think. But my own colleagues are quite happy to ask me about and discuss farang behaviour because they know that, in the main, we probably share quite similar views. That comes down to basic human values and respect and we don't have any serious differences there.

There are a number of farangs in our workplace and I don't think any of the Thais here (real Thais living in Thailand) have arrived at the same conclusions as your friends based on their contact with farangs here. I've worked in a couple of places where there were Thais (usually wealthy, self-important types) who looked down on everyone else, Thai and farang, and treated everyone like shit. It would be fair to say that most others, Thai and farang, shared similar views about them. If they were the only Thais I'd ever had contact with, I suppose that would be my mind made up about all 60 million.

The doctor story doesn't ring true. It would be very strange for a senior doctor to be told to that. And any resentment would most likely be directed at the (more senior?) person who told him to do it rather than at the farang.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Tarragona

[PaulUSA302]

When I am in Thaialnd I like to move amongst the regular people. Most of them are not wealthy, most are in their 20's to 30's... Most of them were proud of their accomplishments....

And when one began to voice their opinion, others joined in... And I know they must have been complaining about the extremes.. Everyone remembers the extremes... When militant blacks talked about "The White Man" they talked about the "Extreme" white men. Others knew a few that were good people... It is the good people that are never the problem...

The ones I see getting fed-up are the young, average, hard working people.

[Thaddeus]

The ones I see getting fed-up are the young, average, hard working people.

That isn't a Thai thing, it's a young average hard working people thing..... happens the world over.

[Jai Dee]

Did you read that I am relating to you what was told to me by "Real Thai's" who live in Thailand? Not my prespective of their thoughts, but their thoughts.

In that case, the problem quite clearly relates to the farangs that your friends have met and seen. I must say I've come across the type of farang they're talking about too and, yes, that can have a negative effect that extends to others.

I'm sorry that your friends have never been in a position where they are able to meet farangs who do not look down on Thai culture or throw their money around like they own the country (maybe you could introduce them to some?).

It's quite natural for such stereotypes to arise, I think. But my own colleagues are quite happy to ask me about and discuss farang behaviour because they know that, in the main, we probably share quite similar views. That comes down to basic human values and respect and we don't have any serious differences there.

There are a number of farangs in our workplace and I don't think any of the Thais here (real Thais living in Thailand) have arrived at the same conclusions as your friends based on their contact with farangs here. I've worked in a couple of places where there were Thais (usually wealthy, self-important types) who looked down on everyone else, Thai and farang, and treated everyone like shit. It would be fair to say that most others, Thai and farang, shared similar views about them. If they were the only Thais I'd ever had contact with, I suppose that would be my mind made up about all 60 million.

The doctor story doesn't ring true. It would be very strange for a senior doctor to be told to that. And any resentment would most likely be directed at the (more senior?) person who told him to do it rather than at the farang.

A very good explanation.

[Prakanong]

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

I don't even know what the topic is!

Agreed. Why not try and tell us what your friends complained about?

I must admit thats a whole new one on me - farang charged more due to the way they degrade the money.

I would have thought

Sometimes you are chared more because that is the way things are set up ie national parks

Then they try it on as they might beable to make more money out of you - I am sure the street vendors of say Sukhumvit are not collectively thinking - he degrades the money so I am putting my price up ;-))

Then there are the scams and cheats ie padding the bill etc - they are just greedy scum and if anyone uses the excuse about degrading the money then they are lying scum as well as cheating scum.

[Prakanong]

No, they were not talking about the sex industry... Funny... Anyway, I am looking for a 2 way conversation, I don't want to force feed topic on here. If you find no value here then please, go to the next topic... I don't know how much I am allowed to say and I don't want to get the topic closed. I will try to say what I can when I can but I would guess that you could see where some of the problems can come in? 2 doctors, one Thai and One British. Who gets paid the most in Bangkok? How much more? When the father complains about the foreigner getting paid so much more and doing less work do you think his son or daughter will like the foreigners more or less?

I know here in the USA we LOVE it when foreigners get paid more than us! (That is a joke....).

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

If you're talking about the profession of women in places like Soi Cowboy, which we're not supposed to talk about, it's a poor complaint from your friends as percentages show more Thai men than farang use the baht in these ways.

Funny you should mention the Dr analogy as we were discussing this on Tuesday night. My pal is an American Dr here in singapore and obviously being paid a lot more than most of the locals but he does not have the private work they have.

The conversation was not about Singapore though but about the American Hospital in Dubai where he worked. A Brit who did exactly the same specialty as hiom was complaining that my pal was geting a lot more for the same grade etc. The answer he got as that he was being paid according to what he earned back home with a premium as was my pal.

This is quite common actually - an organisation I know very well pays a similar way - depending on your home country the salary will be at a premium while working away but the disparity between say and India is there.

Another example is my pal in O&G in Georgia - the PI guys works 12 weeks on and 2 weeks off for 100 USD a day. My pal does 4 and 4 for a lot more money.

[PaulUSA302]

This is off topic... But I imagine in the beginning the soldiers would come for holiday... enjoy the massage and the gogo places, get their money changed into local money and found that it went far and began to throw it around as if it were play money. I would guess that the people saw that the visitors were willing to pay more with little complaint because that had more than the average Thai. If a Thai wanted a soda, they were charged x and if a soldier wanted the same drink he had to pay XX.... And slowly it began to spread into different areas... I don't know if that is how it happened but that is my guess.

One complaint was about the "Farang" using the baht in ways that degraded the people and the culture. They also made it clear to me that "Farang" are charged more because of this.... They used basic language, I am trying to pick my words to stay inside the board guidelines.

I don't even know what the topic is!

Agreed. Why not try and tell us what your friends complained about?

I must admit thats a whole new one on me - farang charged more due to the way they degrade the money.

I would have thought

Sometimes you are chared more because that is the way things are set up ie national parks

Then they try it on as they might beable to make more money out of you - I am sure the street vendors of say Sukhumvit are not collectively thinking - he degrades the money so I am putting my price up ;-))

Then there are the scams and cheats ie padding the bill etc - they are just greedy scum and if anyone uses the excuse about degrading the money then they are lying scum as well as cheating scum.

[Prakanong]

Did you read that I am relating to you what was told to me by "Real Thai's" who live in Thailand? Not my prespective of their thoughts, but their thoughts.

In that case, the problem quite clearly relates to the farangs that your friends have met and seen. I must say I've come across the type of farang they're talking about too and, yes, that can have a negative effect that extends to others.

I'm sorry that your friends have never been in a position where they are able to meet farangs who do not look down on Thai culture or throw their money around like they own the country (maybe you could introduce them to some?).

It's quite natural for such stereotypes to arise, I think. But my own colleagues are quite happy to ask me about and discuss farang behaviour because they know that, in the main, we probably share quite similar views. That comes down to basic human values and respect and we don't have any serious differences there.

There are a number of farangs in our workplace and I don't think any of the Thais here (real Thais living in Thailand) have arrived at the same conclusions as your friends based on their contact with farangs here. I've worked in a couple of places where there were Thais (usually wealthy, self-important types) who looked down on everyone else, Thai and farang, and treated everyone like shit. It would be fair to say that most others, Thai and farang, shared similar views about them. If they were the only Thais I'd ever had contact with, I suppose that would be my mind made up about all 60 million.

The doctor story doesn't ring true. It would be very strange for a senior doctor to be told to that. And any resentment would most likely be directed at the (more senior?) person who told him to do it rather than at the farang.

I agree that the Dr story just does not ring true at all.

Working where I do and who I come into contact with I think it is an urban myth propagated by some thai with a chip on his shoulder!

A senior Thai Dr out of respect for his foreign coleague may have walked him to the car in the rain rather than delegate the task to a junior because of his rspect for the foreign Dr though - if he did not the nurse of junior Dr would have been doing the walking!

[PaulUSA302]

I don't have any way of varifying the Doctor story but I trust that he was telling me the truth. If only because of some of the stories some farang have told me about their life in Thailand. Maybe they were just juat stretching the truth on their bragging about how much better they are treated compared to their Thai co-workers...

your reality may be different.

[Etrigan]

What a ridiculous thread!

Paul - Get used to the idea, you are not Thai, and you never will be. Get used to it. You are forever contrasting this country with the states, why?

I'm getting a little tired of all these sweeping national generalisations which turn out to be based on the most insignificant of moments of a more insignificant person's life! What, close to 60 million people are judged by the actions of a baht bus driver as percieved by an american non-immigrant?

[Prakanong]

I don't have any way of varifying the Doctor story but I trust that he was telling me the truth. If only because of some of the stories some farang have told me about their life in Thailand. Maybe they were just juat stretching the truth on their bragging about how much better they are treated compared to their Thai co-workers...

your reality may be different.

The Thai Dr's I come nto contact with professionally, rather than those treating me, are all KOL's (Key Opionon Leaders) so they are top of their tree - I can assure you nobody is going to make them walk to a car in the rain!

Who would ask them to do it anyway? There is just nobody to tell a senior Thai Dr what to do and not what to do.

Stretching the truth I would guess is correct - the senior Thai Dr out of respect for his senior foreign colleague (might be any nationality) chose to walk the guy to the car.

This would happen in any country and does - not just Dr's but othr senior people.

I have seen my VP who is a very senior Dr walk other respected Dr's to there car after a speech, vist etc - its just the polite thing to do and its done every day.

I have seen the CEO greet a Nobel prize winner as he came for a presentation and alk him to his limo again.

Its how things are done and probably even more so in the medical/scientific community where I work but of which I am not - We all do it - I send the secretary to show out a junior saleman but a senior person I will walk to the door, a very senior person I will go to the lobby and see them to their car!!

Its probably done more in Asia but its done elsewhere.

[PaulUSA302]

He told me that a senior Dr. was given an umbrella to escort a farang doctor to his car and many were not happy about it. Maybe he left something out??? Maybe the farang doctor had his hands full and they were all good friends and they all offered to escort him to his car and he refused over and over again and then when my friend came into the area, all he saw was a senior doctor being handed an umbrella and told to escort him to his car.... But what is impossible in one place may be possible in another place... Kinda like being told about a bloodless coup.... IMPOSSIBLE some would say.

I don't have any way of varifying the Doctor story but I trust that he was telling me the truth. If only because of some of the stories some farang have told me about their life in Thailand. Maybe they were just juat stretching the truth on their bragging about how much better they are treated compared to their Thai co-workers...

your reality may be different.

The Thai Dr's I come nto contact with professionally, rather than those treating me, are all KOL's (Key Opionon Leaders) so they are top of their tree - I can assure you nobody is going to make them walk to a car in the rain!

Who would ask them to do it anyway? There is just nobody to tell a senior Thai Dr what to do and not what to do.

Stretching the truth I would guess is correct - the senior Thai Dr out of respect for his senior foreign colleague (might be any nationality) chose to walk the guy to the car.

This would happen in any country and does - not just Dr's but othr senior people.

I have seen my VP who is a very senior Dr walk other respected Dr's to there car after a speech, vist etc - its just the polite thing to do and its done every day.

I have seen the CEO greet a Nobel prize winner as he came for a presentation and alk him to his limo again.

Its how things are done and probably even more so in the medical/scientific community where I work but of which I am not - We all do it - I send the secretary to show out a junior saleman but a senior person I will walk to the door, a very senior person I will go to the lobby and see them to their car!!

Its probably done more in Asia but its done elsewhere.

[Prakanong]

"all he saw was a senior doctor being handed an umbrella and told to escort him to his carall he saw was a senior doctor being handed an umbrella and told to escort him to his car"

My question's - "Define Senior Dr and "Who told the senior Dr to escort him"

Is your pal a junior Dr?

[MiG16]

So any and all jobs that are taken by a foreigner is done so due to that person filling the requirements and out-fighting some local person in skill level and salary-requirement.

why on earth would anyone hire a farang that would be equally skilled as a local person, but wants higher salary? It just doesn't make any sense.

I will argue against that...even if based on only one example...but since that example was myself...I can say it with first hand knowledge that it DOES happen that a farang is paid to do exactly the same job as thai at higher salary....in my case colleagues in my team were paid atleast double what I was paid.....and yes doing exactly same job...I can say exactly the same cos I took over the responsibilities of one of the farang that went away on extended sick leave.

..the first few months I didnt make a big deal of it...putting it down to perhaps they want to see if my capability matched the level of others....after 8months they obviously didnt have a problem with the quality of my work...since I was assigned more work....but no adjustment to pay..while farangs enjoyed their level without having to take on any additional tasks either.....I quit after another 8months of that.

did I have a choice? yes I could quit and did....but was it fair?

anyhow.........

PS. EDIT to add that> Im not anti-farang...still work with farangs, and have lots of farang friends. in the case above the boss was a farang..perhaps he wanted to pay his country compatriots more...but in many cases the bosses are thai...who for some reason feel farangs can do a better job and pay them such...in some cases Im sure its justified. but not always

Edited June 21, 2007 by MiG16

[Furbie]

Here is what you need to understand about the world. Human beings, by nature, are racist, xenophobic creatures that find solace in groups of similar people, who then get together to complain about other people. What kind of person you are depends as too how far you go in your own personal racist, xenphobic attitude.

Before I get jumped on, let me explain.

How many times have you sat around with a bunch of Western friends at a bar and said – Thai people this, Thai people that, God they piss me off when they do this or that? I know I have.

Now, do you think that the Thais don't sit around and say the same things? It is human nature to complain. As long as it does not go any further, no problem – as you are never going to stop it.

Back in the US in the 80's, the US had a big problem with the Japanese – they had too much Yen and where spreading it around the US. It led to a real round of Japanese bashing in movies, TV shows, on the radio, etc. But at the end of the day, people who had Japanese friends were still friends with them, people still ate Japanese food, people still bought Japanese cars, people still traveled to Japan and people still sold products to the Japanese. Human nature.

Sure, some Thais are anti-farrang. Some farrangs are anti-Thai. But at the end of the day, it is no different than anywhere else in the world. It is human nature to complain about what is going on around you – be it Thais, Japanese, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.

And yes, some on the misperceptions that occur in Thailand are from a basic lack of understanding. As I have said in a previous post, my current GF was floored at the way some Thais attempt to extract money from me. She could not believe that Thais were behaving this way – she thought my life here was some golden shangrila, but there are just different sorts of problems for Westerners.

But I will tell you, if I was a Thai in NYC, I bet that there would be cabbies trying to rip me off as well – hel_l, people from Arkansas get ripped off in NYC, just like people from Issan get ripped off in BKK. Human nature.

I will say, my Thai friends are solid people, and my two closest Thai friends are two of the best people I have ever know - as long as I don't complain about Thailand to them, we can discuss about anything.

[wolfmanjack]

What I have heard over and over again are that they don't like the Farang throwing their money around and forcing their fellow Thai to be treated as lowers for the money.

Explain to them that it is the same in the USA. Explain to them the "customer is always right" concept that most stores and restaurants go by in the USA. Many rich white people treat poor white people like dirt because they know the poor person wants the money. I used to own a retail store in the USA. I kicked a few people out of my store because of the way they acted. They would say "but I am a customer." my answer was "I don't give a shit, get out of my store." I refused to suck up to anyone for a buck. If the thais do not like the way the falang acts, refuse to serve them. It is as simple as that. No one is forcing them to do anything.

They did not like the attitude of the Farang towards the Thai people. Where are they seeing this attitude ?? Pattaya?? Most thais that go to pattaya go there to take money from falangs. Most of the falangs in other parts of thailand treat the thai with respect unless the thais disrespect us first. If you spit on the ground when I walk by don't expect me to be nice about it.

The did not like the Farang men coming for their women. It is not up to the man whether a woman goes with him or not. It is up to the woman. They should be mad at the woman not the man. I do know that this drives some thai guys nuts. I was at a sea food restaurant with a thai girl and a the waiter asked her why she was with a falang. It obviously upset him. hel_l it happens in the USA too. It is common for the mothers to tell their daughters that it is just as easy to fall in love with a rich guy as it is to fall in love with a poor guy. Marry a doctor not a ditch digger. Do they get mad at rich thai men that have 10 mia noys ?

They did not like how the Farang look down on their society and culture. Most falangs know nothing about thai culture just as most thais know nothing about western culture until they live here for a while. It has nothing to do with looking down on or not.

At one party the guys began to talk about the "Farang" attitude, the "farang" money and how the "farang" think their money is everything and because they think their money is everything we make them pay more for everything and on and on.

The only thing I can say about this is that greed is the reason they ask us for more money than they do thais.

This is what they told me on my many trips to Thailand. I don't know why I am so lucky to get to know their "Not so Polite but real" thoughts. Maybe because I am a Black American they feel as if I can relate. Maybe they are telling me this because they think it is what I want to hear.... But it has happened too often and in too many different situations for me to think they are telling me their feelings to please me.

Where are you meeting these guys ? Are they touts in Pattaya ??

[wolfmanjack]

Here is what you need to understand about the world. Human beings, by nature, are racist, xenophobic creatures that find solace in groups of similar people, who then get together to complain about other people. What kind of person you are depends as too how far you go in your own personal racist, xenphobic attitude.

Before I get jumped on, let me explain.

How many times have you sat around with a bunch of Western friends at a bar and said – Thai people this, Thai people that, God they piss me off when they do this or that? I know I have.

Now, do you think that the Thais don't sit around and say the same things? It is human nature to complain. As long as it does not go any further, no problem – as you are never going to stop it.

Back in the US in the 80's, the US had a big problem with the Japanese – they had too much Yen and where spreading it around the US. It led to a real round of Japanese bashing in movies, TV shows, on the radio, etc. But at the end of the day, people who had Japanese friends were still friends with them, people still ate Japanese food, people still bought Japanese cars, people still traveled to Japan and people still sold products to the Japanese. Human nature.

Sure, some Thais are anti-farrang. Some farrangs are anti-Thai. But at the end of the day, it is no different than anywhere else in the world. It is human nature to complain about what is going on around you – be it Thais, Japanese, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.

And yes, some on the misperceptions that occur in Thailand are from a basic lack of understanding. As I have said in a previous post, my current GF was floored at the way some Thais attempt to extract money from me. She could not believe that Thais were behaving this way – she thought my life here was some golden shangrila, but there are just different sorts of problems for Westerners.

But I will tell you, if I was a Thai in NYC, I bet that there would be cabbies trying to rip me off as well – hel_l, people from Arkansas get ripped off in NYC, just like people from Issan get ripped off in BKK. Human nature.

I will say, my Thai friends are solid people, and my two closest Thai friends are two of the best people I have ever know - as long as I don't complain about Thailand to them, we can discuss about anything.

My 2 best thai friends complain about thailand just as much as I do. It is because they have the same problems that I do.

[t.s]

? 2 doctors, one Thai and One British. Who gets paid the most in Bangkok? How much more?

Unless the British doctor speaks fluent Thai, and could write the boards in fluent Thai, he doesn't have a license to practice, so he makes NO money.

[farang prince]

This thread is on the road to nowhere.

Paul can't tell us what the friends said, which is the subject of his first post but against board policy?

Are we supposed to play let's suppose?

Come on Paul, post something meaty for a change.

Get a thread.

I totally agree qwertz. The OP has been giving us a nonsensical two-step, hiding behind "board policy" in order not to put real meat to his argument. Paul, if you believe so strongly in the post, go ahead and get out there on a limb and tell us the unvarnished truth. I have been posting on here a year and somehow I think the mods will go along with it, even if you have to asterisk out some letters in some curse words. We'll get the drift. But right now, I feel like you are giving us a handjob. (Let's see if that get's cut out by the mods! Hehehehehe)

[tijnebijn]

Isn't it that in our home countries almost everybody is complaining about foreigners ?

Most of the times because they do not attempt to speak the language well ,and often ofcourse their religion is too dominant in their presense ,in the views of many .

I can understand that in Thailand ,the Thaipeople ,also have their complaints .

We could give many reasons or solutions for them, but isn't it like most of us are living in our own small world .Meaning we only can see the truth what it is like in our own small world . This reason is the main reason why their is so many hatred to foreigners anywhere in the world .

I think Thailand are not that very much hatred , compared with where I come from . But yeah they love their own country , does not necessarily mean they hate us , some stay forever in the mini mind , and thats why this stereotyping will never change .

[wolfmanjack]

Isn't it that in our home countries almost everybody is complaining about foreigners ?

Most of the times because they do not attempt to speak the language well ,and often ofcourse their religion is too dominant in their presense ,in the views of many .

I can understand that in Thailand ,the Thaipeople ,also have their complaints .

We could give many reasons or solutions for them, but isn't it like most of us are living in our own small world .Meaning we only can see the truth what it is like in our own small world . This reason is the main reason why their is so many hatred to foreigners anywhere in the world .

I think Thailand are not that very much hatred , compared with where I come from . But yeah they love their own country , does not necessarily mean they hate us , some stay forever in the mini mind , and thats why this stereotyping will never change .

We did not complain about the foreigners. We complained about the Californians and the New Yorkers. Mostly the Californians though since there were more of em.

[bendix]

I read the first post and thought . . I'm not sure what this is about. But I persevered. I've now read the entire thread, and I still don't have a clue what it is we're debating.

I know I can be a bit of a dunce at times. Can someone give me an overview please cos I'm really confused.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Ditto.

[mellow1]

Why would a Dr.,say from the USA.come and work in Thailand?Not only would he loose out on a lot of money,but Thailand also lacks many other comforts and activities found in the USA.Not to mention human interaction.Even if I could speak Thai well enough, to have a decent conversation,what would I talk about.Most of the Thai peoples lifestyle or concerns seem vastly different from mine.Most of the Thai people I meet could not survive or even compete in a western workforce.The majority of the households here, there is one person working,while 4 or 5 others lay around and leech off the one.The other scenario is, one person has a company, and everyone in the entire extended family tries to get in on the action.Once on the inside,the focus switches to improving ones level in the pecking order,while being able to do the least amount of work possible.

Of course there are the true dedicated,competent,and competitive individuals.But from my point of view,few as compared to the previous examples.Maybe it's an Isaan thing.

As for getting ripped off when buying stuff.for big stuff,I try and shop around.I almost never buy stuff if there is no price tag on it.In the years I lived here,I've found most Thais will rip you off just as fast as they do each other.Read the papers.

Many of the professional and educated Thais I have the opportunity to talk to, fear the possibility of farangs working here.They do not worry about the farangs getting loaded day and night at the local saloon or house of ill repute.But they fear the true professionals out to make money in direct competition to them.

As far as farangs taking their women.Thais feel most farang wind up with women that have children out of wedlock,are divorce,too old for most Thais to want to marry,or very dark complected and generally seen as not desirable,or prostitutes.With the primary goal of getting their hands on the farangs money.

Most of the Thais that I've met would more than likely drop everything to get out of here,and go where you come from,in the hope of improving their lives,and probably think we are crazy for even living here.After I explain that I am retired and that I can provide for my family better here,due to the cost of living being much lower,they understand and agree.

As for the majority of Thais being racist,absolutely,but they are equally racist to non-farangs.

[jdinasia]

I read the first post and thought . . I'm not sure what this is about. But I persevered. I've now read the entire thread, and I still don't have a clue what it is we're debating.

I know I can be a bit of a dunce at times. Can someone give me an overview please cos I'm really confused.

Simply stated ... Paul is letting his concepts of rejudice ,influence, and money from the USA color his claimed observations in Thailand. I have read his other threads ... and well ... this one smacks of trolling

My black/african-american friends from the USA tell completely different stories about Thailand than I ever experience (mostly due to running into far more prejudice from 'normal Thais' than I ever see). Their experiences in tourist places, though, happen to be the same as most people's experiences in tourist places.

[sukanyacondo]

Well then I don't know why the people I talk to were so pissed? They had no valid reason to be outraged and why they are not loosing face for all the visitors tossing baht around...

I made a mistake and went into a what if. I should not had done that. I will tell you that I talk with a intern who complained often about the treatment the Thai received compared to their Farang equals.

He told me about a rainy day when one senior doctor was given an umbrella to walk a farang doctor to his car so that he would not get wet....

I don't know how true that story was but he led me to believe that it has caused some problems in a few of their bellies.

Not likely a true story ..... but who knows! Basically you are carrying your western context into Thailand and trying to apply it here. Having perused your posting history I would assume that you must have been having your conversations in English and not Thai. it would not be TOOOOO much of a stretch for you to be hearing what you want to hear ... either because of personal bias ... or because you gave indication to thinking something was wrong ... and so got a story from someone about how it was wrong.

Walk down a bangkok street ... be a sweaty American ... find a Thai that speaks English and say " ###### it is hot out today! " You will get the reply "yes very hot!" (and if he had seen enough television he might add "you could fry an egg on the sidewalk!") Trust me ... the person you met may not think the day was particularly hot at all. He was simply being polite by agreeing with you! You will know you are really accepted by the person if in all fiendliness he says "What? Are you kidding? Today I had to put on a long sleeve jacket to get to work!"

JD that reply about the jacket is great gives me a good insight into Thai people thanks

[tijnebijn]

I read the first post and thought . . I'm not sure what this is about. But I persevered. I've now read the entire thread, and I still don't have a clue what it is we're debating.

I know I can be a bit of a dunce at times. Can someone give me an overview please cos I'm really confused.

Simply stated ... Paul is letting his concepts of prejudice ,influence, and money from the USA color his claimed observations in Thailand. I have read his other threads ... and well ... this one smacks of trolling

My black/African-American friends from the USA tell completely different stories about Thailand than I ever experience (mostly due to running into far more prejudice from 'normal Thais' than I ever see). Their experiences in tourist places, though, happen to be the same as most people's experiences in tourist places.

Indeed wherever you go , tourists are scum , ever been to Costa Blanca/ Brava or Costa Del Sol . I mean tourists going to Thailand are still very decent comparing with holidayers over there .

[sukanyacondo]

Here is what you need to understand about the world. Human beings, by nature, are racist, xenophobic creatures that find solace in groups of similar people, who then get together to complain about other people. What kind of person you are depends as too how far you go in your own personal racist, xenphobic attitude.

Before I get jumped on, let me explain.

How many times have you sat around with a bunch of Western friends at a bar and said – Thai people this, Thai people that, God they piss me off when they do this or that? I know I have.

Now, do you think that the Thais don't sit around and say the same things? It is human nature to complain. As long as it does not go any further, no problem – as you are never going to stop it.

Back in the US in the 80's, the US had a big problem with the Japanese – they had too much Yen and where spreading it around the US. It led to a real round of Japanese bashing in movies, TV shows, on the radio, etc. But at the end of the day, people who had Japanese friends were still friends with them, people still ate Japanese food, people still bought Japanese cars, people still traveled to Japan and people still sold products to the Japanese. Human nature.

Sure, some Thais are anti-farrang. Some farrangs are anti-Thai. But at the end of the day, it is no different than anywhere else in the world. It is human nature to complain about what is going on around you – be it Thais, Japanese, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.

And yes, some on the misperceptions that occur in Thailand are from a basic lack of understanding. As I have said in a previous post, my current GF was floored at the way some Thais attempt to extract money from me. She could not believe that Thais were behaving this way – she thought my life here was some golden shangrila, but there are just different sorts of problems for Westerners.

But I will tell you, if I was a Thai in NYC, I bet that there would be cabbies trying to rip me off as well – hel_l, people from Arkansas get ripped off in NYC, just like people from Issan get ripped off in BKK. Human nature.

I will say, my Thai friends are solid people, and my two closest Thai friends are two of the best people I have ever know - as long as I don't complain about Thailand to them, we can discuss about anything.

My 2 best thai friends complain about thailand just as much as I do. It is because they have the same problems that I do.

My wife and our friends also complain about Thailand ,about Thai companies who dont take care of their customers, about crazy taxi drivers, about bad service from TOT, bad food in some restaurants, crikey their such a bunch of moaners!!! Never heard them complain about farangs yet but then we dont live near a major farang hotspot and Im sure even I'd compalin about farangs if I did. Nothig worse for me than a pi****d up farang mouthing off or chanting football songs etc semi naked.

When I was in Samui once I was in an internet cafe when a German couple came in and had a slight problem with their internet connection, and just ended up <deleted> and blinding at the poor Thai woman there. Made me feel sad to be a farang and sure as h**l must have given the woman a shock. They stormed off banging doors etc way over the top. I like to stay away from farang tourist areas, too much low life in them for me. No offence to any living there.

Another internet cafe Thai owner friend in Phuket of mine often has farangs arguing over 2-3 baht after they have spent some time using their phone on an international call but she does not think all farangs are like this. people are the same everywhere good n bad as she says.

[Furbie]

Here is what you need to understand about the world. Human beings, by nature, are racist, xenophobic creatures that find solace in groups of similar people, who then get together to complain about other people. What kind of person you are depends as too how far you go in your own personal racist, xenphobic attitude.

Before I get jumped on, let me explain.

How many times have you sat around with a bunch of Western friends at a bar and said – Thai people this, Thai people that, God they piss me off when they do this or that? I know I have.

Now, do you think that the Thais don't sit around and say the same things? It is human nature to complain. As long as it does not go any further, no problem – as you are never going to stop it.

Back in the US in the 80's, the US had a big problem with the Japanese – they had too much Yen and where spreading it around the US. It led to a real round of Japanese bashing in movies, TV shows, on the radio, etc. But at the end of the day, people who had Japanese friends were still friends with them, people still ate Japanese food, people still bought Japanese cars, people still traveled to Japan and people still sold products to the Japanese. Human nature.

Sure, some Thais are anti-farrang. Some farrangs are anti-Thai. But at the end of the day, it is no different than anywhere else in the world. It is human nature to complain about what is going on around you – be it Thais, Japanese, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.

And yes, some on the misperceptions that occur in Thailand are from a basic lack of understanding. As I have said in a previous post, my current GF was floored at the way some Thais attempt to extract money from me. She could not believe that Thais were behaving this way – she thought my life here was some golden shangrila, but there are just different sorts of problems for Westerners.

But I will tell you, if I was a Thai in NYC, I bet that there would be cabbies trying to rip me off as well – hel_l, people from Arkansas get ripped off in NYC, just like people from Issan get ripped off in BKK. Human nature.

I will say, my Thai friends are solid people, and my two closest Thai friends are two of the best people I have ever know - as long as I don't complain about Thailand to them, we can discuss about anything.

My 2 best thai friends complain about thailand just as much as I do. It is because they have the same problems that I do.

My wife and our friends also complain about Thailand ,about Thai companies who dont take care of their customers, about crazy taxi drivers, about bad service from TOT, bad food in some restaurants, crikey their such a bunch of moaners!!! Never heard them complain about farangs yet but then we dont live near a major farang hotspot and Im sure even I'd compalin about farangs if I did. Nothig worse for me than a pi****d up farang mouthing off or chanting football songs etc semi naked.

When I was in Samui once I was in an internet cafe when a German couple came in and had a slight problem with their internet connection, and just ended up <deleted> and blinding at the poor Thai woman there. Made me feel sad to be a farang and sure as h**l must have given the woman a shock. They stormed off banging doors etc way over the top. I like to stay away from farang tourist areas, too much low life in them for me. No offence to any living there.

Another internet cafe Thai owner friend in Phuket of mine often has farangs arguing over 2-3 baht after they have spent some time using their phone on an international call but she does not think all farangs are like this. people are the same everywhere good n bad as she says.

Maybe I should be a bit more specific about my last statement – complaining about bad service from certain companies or restaurants, lousy cab drivers etc. is not an issue – but blanket statements like "Thailand has bad service" or blanket negative statements about Thai people get them upset.