COVID Cases Spike After Long Holiday

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

There is also a consistency issue we need to clarify with the zealous vaccine supporters. First the vaccines 'are the only way out'. Then, they don't really work but 'they prevent serious illness and death'. Now cases are rising everywhere again so there are 2 options: either it's nothing to be concerned about because (as previously stated) the vaccines 'prevent serious illness and death' or it's an issue because serious illnesses and deaths are still occurring, hence my question: do the vaccines really work and if so, in what way?

 

Pharma proponents, please enlighten a wretched uneducated and mentally challenged anti-vaxxer such as myself.

Well avoidance of the truth always helps anti covid vaxxers, especially since the current variants are extremely more transmissible than previous variants so far more people catching covid along with their heightened immunity evasiveness than previous variants. However the FACTS are the vaccines still provide an excellent level of protection from serious illness and death.

[ozimoron]

34 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

OK so please remind me again what those life-saving vaccines were supposed to do?

Save lives.

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

As I understand it that's the status quo in Thailand now.

 

Last night I even saw one of the local 711 staff not wearing a mask late at night.

I was just in Bangkok and saw very, very few Thais without masks outdoors. Many foreigners were not wearing them, including myself. 

 

In many provincial towns, I see very few without masks, even on motorbikes. 

[ozimoron]

21 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

There is also a consistency issue we need to clarify with the zealous vaccine supporters. First the vaccines 'are the only way out'. Then, they don't really work but 'they prevent serious illness and death'. Now cases are rising everywhere again so there are 2 options: either it's nothing to be concerned about because (as previously stated) the vaccines 'prevent serious illness and death' or it's an issue because serious illnesses and deaths are still occurring, hence my question: do the vaccines really work and if so, in what way?

 

Pharma proponents, please enlighten a wretched uneducated and mentally challenged anti-vaxxer such as myself.

Are you seriously proposing that the vaccines don't reduce serious illness and death? If people continue to become seriously ill then does that mean the vaccine help nobody, or very few people? Obviously not.

[rattlesnake]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well avoidance of the truth always helps anti covid vaxxers, especially since the current variants are extremely more transmissible than previous variants so far more people catching covid along with their heightened immunity evasiveness than previous variants. However the FACTS are the vaccines still provide an excellent level of protection from serious illness and death.

OK so why the big deal then if you're 'protected from serious illness and death' as you have just stated?

[rattlesnake]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Save lives.

Ok so no need to keep worrying about Covid then, considering your lives are saved?

[ozimoron]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

OK so why the big deal then if you're 'protected from serious illness and death' as you have just stated?

You admitted yourself that the vaccines don't prevent all serious illness and death. There is also a huge issue of 1 in 25 people getting long covid, even from Omicron.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

OK so why the big deal then if you're 'protected from serious illness and death' as you have just stated?

Wait are you now admitting that what you said is totally untrue? What big deal have I referred to apart from calling out your lies?

[rattlesnake]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Are you seriously proposing that the vaccines don't reduce serious illness and death? If people continue to become seriously ill then does that mean the vaccine help nobody, or very few people? Obviously not.

Let's try and remain rational: if the vaccines 'prevent serious illness and death', please explain why Covid remains an issue now.

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Wait are you now admitting that what you said is totally untrue? What big deal have I referred to apart from calling out your lies?

I mean the big deal about Covid; which is the issue debated in this thread: if you are protected from serious illness and death as you claim, why do you care about Covid at all anymore?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Let's try and remain rational: if the vaccines 'prevent serious illness and death', please explain why Covid remains an issue now.

Because it doesn't prevent ALL serious illness and death. And that's distinct from it not preventing ANY serious illness and death. Is that not obvious?

Edited July 22, 2022 by ozimoron

[The Hammer2021]

On 7/21/2022 at 5:47 PM, Excel said:

They did long before covid under many circumstances

For the same reason - top prevent infection and the spread  of disease.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

41 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

OK so please remind me again what those life-saving vaccines were supposed to do?

 

COVID-19 vaccines saved an estimated 20 million lives in 1 year

"COVID vaccines reduced the potential global death toll during the pandemic by almost two-thirds in their first year, saving an estimated 19.8 million lives, according to a mathematical modeling study yesterday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases.

 

An additional 600,000 lives could have been spared if a World Health Organization (WHO) goal of vaccinating 40% of the population of every country by the end of 2021 had been met, the authors of the study say."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/06/covid-19-vaccines-saved-estimated-20-million-lives-1-year

 

And if more people had actually gotten the COVID vaccines they SHOULD have gotten, the number of COVID deaths prevented would have been even higher.

 

But partly because many did not.... the current "official" count of COVID deaths since the beginning of the pandemic is nearing 6.4 million.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

I mean the big deal about Covid; which is the issue debated in this thread: if you are protected from serious illness and death as you claim, why do you care about Covid at all anymore?

Maybe you additionally have a problem actually reading my posts in which I said:

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What big deal have I referred to apart from calling out your lies?

Now do you comprehend the big deal in spreading dangerous misinformation?

[rattlesnake]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Because it doesn't prevent ALL serious illness and death. And that's distinct from it not preventing ANY serious illness and death. Is that not obvious?

Right so now we have established the efficacy is very limited. We're making progress.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Right so now we have established the efficacy is very limited. We're making progress.

somewhat limited while retaining a high degree of efficacy against serious illness and death would be about the most accurate description available. Anything less is misinformation.

[coolcarer]

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Right so now we have established the efficacy is very limited. We're making progress.

88% protection against severe disease is not very limited but don’t let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory 

[rattlesnake]

25 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

somewhat limited while retaining a high degree of efficacy against serious illness and death would be about the most accurate description available. Anything less is misinformation.

Right so no need to worry about Covid anymore then? Mission accomplished. Please confirm.

[rattlesnake]

21 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

88% protection against severe disease is not very limited but don’t let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory 

Right so no need to worry about Covid anymore then? Mission accomplished. Please confirm.

Edited July 22, 2022 by rattlesnake

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

36 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Right so now we have established the efficacy is very limited. We're making progress.

 

No, we haven't established that... The vaccine efficacy today in preventing basic infections is partial and declines post-injection to very low levels after several months, but then can be restored again to prior, original levels with subsequent booster shots. Which is the reason public health authorities advise people to stay current/up-to-date with vaccine booster shots.

 

But the protections against serious illness and death remain strong, both immediately post injection and thereafter,  including with subsequent booster shots.... though not 100% in any case. Few things in this world are 100% absolute.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Right so no need to worry about Covid anymore then? Mission accomplished. Please confirm.

In think my post was pretty clear that there remains a risk beyond the protection that vaccines don't provide. The bottom line is a message that the anti vaxxers don't want to hear. Not only is it imperative to get vaccinated but also to continue to wear masks when in crowded areas.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, BangkokHank said:

Brilliant! I likewise await their answers.

"they"  are feverishly searching for the latest paid "articles"  that continue to spin this 3 year old narrative on a very unfortunate world ........... to repeat it...

 

oh,  btw,  fauci just had covid.       and now,  Biden  !      "Just get the shot ! "  

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by onthedarkside
trolling and misinfo comments removed

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

"they"  are feverishly searching for the latest paid "articles"  that continue to spin this 3 year old narrative on a very unfortunate world ........... to repeat it...

 

oh,  btw,  fauci just had covid.       and now,  Biden  !      "Just get the shot ! "  

 

I hadn't realized they'd died. Oh well, maybe vaccines don't work after all.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

Biden  !      "Just get the shot ! "  

 

Some might argue (myself included) that a likely reason President Biden thus far is experiencing only minor COVID symptoms, despite at age 79 being in the absolute highest risk group for serious COVID health problems, is BECAUSE he's been fully vaccinated and boosted as public health authorities have recommended for people of his age.

 

Unfortunately, more than HALF of Thailand's population age 60 and above thus far has not yet received even a third booster shot....and almost 20% haven't received a second vaccine shot -- meaning they're at substantially higher risk for serious health problems should they become infected. And that means a lot of especially vulnerable elderly people out there.

 

Latest Thai MoPH graphic on current vaccination rates among the elderly and youngsters, showing rates for first, second and third shots received:

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/photos/a.106142991004034/608392074112454/?type=3

 

[rattlesnake]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No, we haven't established that... The vaccine efficacy today in preventing basic infections is partial and declines post-injection to very low levels after several months, but then can be restored again to prior, original levels with subsequent booster shots. Which is the reason public health authorities advise people to stay current/up-to-date with vaccine booster shots.

 

But the protections against serious illness and death remain strong, both immediately post injection and thereafter,  including with subsequent booster shots.... though not 100% in any case. Few things in this world are 100% absolute.

 

 

The undelying rationale here is that boosters can be administered indefinitely. Is this reasonable for a young and healthy person? There is concern in the medical community about the validity of this approach:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says

 

For someone like me who is young and healthy, do you really believe vaccinations and indefinite boosters are the way to go? I have taken zero shots and I have never caught Covid, am I a statistical anomoly? The luckiest guy in the world? Or maybe, just maybe I am right to trust my immune system and lead a healthy lifestyle?

[rattlesnake]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Some might argue (myself included) that the reason President Biden thus far is experiencing only minor COVID symptoms, despite at age 79 being in the absolute highest risk group for serious COVID health problems, is BECAUSE he's been fully vaccinated and boosted as public health authorities have recommended for people of his age.

 

In that case, why is Covid still a concern? You're all taking your boosters and not dying from Covid, great. And us stupid anti-vaxxers will die but that's our problem, isn't it?

Edited July 22, 2022 by rattlesnake

[coolcarer]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

The undelying rationale here is that boosters can be administered indefinitely. Is this reasonable for a young and healthy person? There is concern in the medical community about the validity of this approach:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says

 

For someone like me who is young and healthy, do you really believe vaccinations and indefinite boosters are the way to go? I have taken zero shots and I have never caught Covid, am I a statistical anomoly? The luckiest guy in the world? Or maybe, just maybe I am right to trust my immune system and lead a healthy lifestyle?

I take it you’ve not heard of the yearly flu booster then?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

In that case, why is Covid still a concern? You're all taking your boosters and not catching Covid, great. And us stupid anti-vaxxers will die but that's our problem, isn't it?

It's who you take with you that's the problem.

[rattlesnake]

Just now, coolcarer said:

I take it you’ve not heard of the yearly flu booster then?

Never taken it and never caught the flu. I am very healthy though.

[rattlesnake]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

It's who you take with you that's the problem.

How does that make sense when vaccination does not stop transmission?