how do you invest now when there is a gloomy inflation already started?

[BigStar]

  On 7/26/2022 at 7:41 PM, Sparktrader said:

5m divided by 22 is 200,000 baht a year

 

That money could have been invested in sgares

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Actual certificates. Then taped together and used to shelter on a sidewalk from the sun and rain. Near Walking Street, perhaps.

 

Lot of simplistic binary thinking here. I much prefer to think in terms of both/and, not either/or. Why deprive oneself needlessly?

[lexxy]

Don’t invest, the rental return and capital growth is pittance. My garage in Sydney rents for more than a nice condo in Pattaya.

 

Do find a nice condo and buy for yourself if you have the money. 

IMG_0250.MOV

[Captain Monday]

  On 7/26/2022 at 7:41 PM, BigStar said:

Who knows (not you) or cares? In my experience, in a large building, none.

 

Little self-serving anecdotes prove nothing. One owner supposedly "bolted," but we'd need a legal deposition to know the exact reason, which may have been some trivial snowflake reason. Maybe needed to go get extra photocopies for Immigration. Some of our members find that request just absolutely devastating.

 

Or, maybe he didn't "bolt" at all but simply left for the free healthcare in Blighty or somesuch practical reason. Living in Thailand permanently does take due diligence. Some helpless farang fail to do that, having no agent who might have held their hands and done it for them--as one might expect in this population.

 

Owners in my building often rent out their units when they're away for extended periods, as they often are, using their condo for vacations.

 

Great thing about resorts. OP, buy a unit with a sea view in a resort.???? Only busy during high season. 

 

Yeah, more "bolting" would make for a quieter building. It's good that everyone has the freedom to rant and "bolt" whenever they choose. Our posters have a typical response to the departure announcement, too. If that leaves the unit(s) to be seized and sold by the JP and the proceeds used for building maintenance, then all to the good.

 

Now the supposed "multi-millionaire" wasn't an owner, and for all the supposed wealth and free rent couldn't afford the trivial expense of a long-term visa and instead put himself to a lot of bother. So he was basically, and rightly, kicked out by Immigration, assuming you didn't make it all up. (Yeah, we do that here.) Good on 'em. Irrelevant example.

 

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Too much nonsense to respond to above won't bother. Captain Monday  never said "Don't buy a Condo". I bought a condo, on my own terms Not more than I can afford can lose and I can still afford to walk away. 

 

Overall, it was one of my  better decisions. I was given all kind of true fear monger and outrageous reasons why not to buy. Mostly from people why don't have two satangs to rub together. From "you wont like your neighbors" to "The redshirts will prevail and confiscate it". Nobody, but  nobody ever told me about a virus locking me out for 10 months completely disrupting my well curated international lifestyle. 

 

I don't regret my purchase far from it but if I could go back 15 years would be doing a lot differently.  No, so  from here on not "investing" any more in Thailand.,

 

Every expat needs a plan B. My plan B has become my plan A. Implementation is in effect at this time

 

So what's in YOUR bug-out bag?

 

[parafareno]

  On 7/26/2022 at 7:51 PM, lextsy said:

Don’t invest, the rental return and capital growth is pittance. My garage in Sydney rents for more than a nice condo in Pattaya.

 

Do find a nice condo and buy for yourself if you have the money. 

IMG_0250.MOVFetching info...

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beautiful condo...but this one goes for like 5 million for sure....and nobody complains about your music.....how the hell do i know if the walls will be paper thin and i will have a neighbour like you playing music all day and night....if the walls are decent and noiise insulation too that is not a problem....but I cant go bangking on walls and guessing how noise insulated tehy are

[Captain Monday]

  On 7/26/2022 at 8:52 PM, parafareno said:

beautiful condo...but this one goes for like 5 million for sure....and nobody complains about your music.....how the hell do i know if the walls will be paper thin and i will have a neighbour like you playing music all day and night....if the walls are decent and noiise insulation too that is not a problem....but I cant go bangking on walls and guessing how noise insulated tehy are

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This is what I did. But the condo seller was an aquiantance thru a friend.

She let me stay in condo.  Not the exact unit (it was disgusting) but her personal resedential space same floor across the hall I stayed several times over a year high season, and low to verify living conditions. So, rent one you have a chance to buy exact or similiar. See if you like the community and environs. 

[parafareno]

  On 7/26/2022 at 9:10 PM, Captain Monday said:

This is what I did. But the condo seller was an aquiantance thru a friend.

She let me stay in condo.  Not the exact unit (it was disgusting) but her personal resedential space same floor across the hall I stayed several times over a year high season, and low to verify living conditions. So, rent one you have a chance to buy exact or similiar. See if you like the community and environs. 

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wherei s that condo, it is not VT right? YOu can pm me so it is a secret and how much did you pay for it?

[lexxy]

  On 7/26/2022 at 8:52 PM, parafareno said:

beautiful condo...but this one goes for like 5 million for sure....and nobody complains about your music.....how the hell do i know if the walls will be paper thin and i will have a neighbour like you playing music all day and night....if the walls are decent and noiise insulation too that is not a problem....but I cant go bangking on walls and guessing how noise insulated tehy are

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Bought for 4.4 in 2014. Maybe around 5 now, the prices don’t move much. Noise doesn’t travel much, you can tell from the lack of noise before I opened the door, even though it was ajar.

 

Older condos are also supreme, much thicker and larger. This one is in Pattaya Hill Resort a very low occupied building.

 

re noise, I wouldn’t have moved to Pattaya (number 1 party city in the world if I wanted quiet). 

[newnative]

  On 7/26/2022 at 10:08 AM, sitanonchai said:

One rule to bear in mind, never invest or buy property in Thailand. 

Stick to that rule and you'll be fine.

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Thank goodness I didn't follow that rule.  

[Captain Monday]

  On 7/26/2022 at 9:19 PM, parafareno said:

wherei s that condo, it is not VT right? YOu can pm me so it is a secret and how much did you pay for it?

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I paid a pittance. Prices of previous decades are irrelevant. New towers near Chiang Mai Night Bazaar or Central Festival popular now. Interested in Chiang Mai condos? Contact perfecthomes or check websites. There are many many for sale. Don't invest more than you can afford to walk away from, and be extra careful with countries you have no right to enter.

 

Some condos even lie idle as in "nonperforming" where the jurrasic person can' t even contact the owners to tow away their rusting heaps taking up a parking spot let alone get their back payments due in condo fees. 

[newnative]

  On 7/26/2022 at 6:17 PM, Captain Monday said:

My building had units that sat for many years with no contact from owners.  Some were eventually seized by a legal process, purchased by a developer guy with bank backing then fixed up and re-marketed  As far as I know they were Thai owned.  I knew a US dollar multi-millionaire  who was handed a Pattaya condo by some foreigner who gave up and bolted.  Just gave him the keys. After a period of commuting in and out of Thailand Immigration threatened him with coming too many times on visa exempts so instead of being denied entry for the horrible crime of spending his moneys here he bought a ticket out of BKK and never returned.

 

So, how many of these "better farang owners" end up abandoning condos?

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     As Big Star has said, who cares.   The question you should be asking is what is the project's  delinquency rate for condo fees.  Many condos that may seem abandoned are actually owned by absentee owners.  Lumpini Park Beach in Jomtien has tons of absentee Bangkok owners.  1800 units, with a high percentage sold, and when my partner and I lived there we often had the pool to ourselves, with sometimes one or two others, during the week.   If a condo has been abandoned and has delinquent maintenance fees, the project should follow the legal process for these abandoned units, as, apparently your project did.

[BritManToo]

  On 7/27/2022 at 1:08 AM, Captain Monday said:

Some condos even lie idle as in "nonperforming" where the jurrasic person can' t even contact the owners to tow away their rusting heaps taking up a parking spot let alone get their back payments due in condo fees. 

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Don't know about condos, but between 10%-20% of houses in my moobaan (250 homes) appear to be abandoned and overgrown. The house next to me has never had an occupant (8 years) since it was built.

And these are all Thai owned!

[Lacessit]

There are arguments for and against owning and renting here. Both sides have validity, although I suspect many of the owners bought very early. I can't see condos as a good investment now.

I bought my condo in Chiang Rai as an asset to leave to my GF when I cark it. She can rent it out or sell it, up to her.

[KhunLA]

  On 7/27/2022 at 2:21 AM, BritManToo said:

Don't know about condos, but between 10%-20% of houses in my moobaan (250 homes) appear to be abandoned and overgrown. The house next to me has never had an occupant (8 years) since it was built.

And these are all Thai owned!

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Noticed some of that in Udon Thani, after the 'great flood' in BKK that one year.  Seem lots of folks with money believed the BS, and thought BKK was going to be underwater every year, or washed away in the next tsunami ????

 

Many bought 'safe' houses, but never seemed to use, and they sat empty.  A glut of building, so to sell isn't really profitable.  Maybe now with some appreciation, as most were condos & townhouse, so no land appreciation.

 

Oops

[parafareno]

  On 7/26/2022 at 11:29 PM, lextsy said:

Bought for 4.4 in 2014. Maybe around 5 now, the prices don’t move much. Noise doesn’t travel much, you can tell from the lack of noise before I opened the door, even though it was ajar.

 

Older condos are also supreme, much thicker and larger. This one is in Pattaya Hill Resort a very low occupied building.

 

re noise, I wouldn’t have moved to Pattaya (number 1 party city in the world if I wanted quiet). 

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i am jealous, that wind cools down the whole place, you dont even need an aircon i bet, thati s really a dram condo....80 sq meter or more?

[parafareno]

  On 7/27/2022 at 1:08 AM, Captain Monday said:

I paid a pittance. Prices of previous decades are irrelevant. New towers near Chiang Mai Night Bazaar or Central Festival popular now. Interested in Chiang Mai condos? Contact perfecthomes or check websites. There are many many for sale. Don't invest more than you can afford to walk away from, and be extra careful with countries you have no right to enter.

 

Some condos even lie idle as in "nonperforming" where the jurrasic person can' t even contact the owners to tow away their rusting heaps taking up a parking spot let alone get their back payments due in condo fees. 

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chiang mai sucks...far from bkk, bad air...come on, never been there and never plan to go there

[lexxy]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:13 AM, parafareno said:

i am jealous, that wind cools down the whole place, you dont even need an aircon i bet

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Yeah it’s basically at the top of pratamnak hill corner unit on the shady side. Sun comes around at 2-3pm which it does get hot but for the price you can’t ask much more.  Aircon is rarely required. 
 

Even now 100sqm condos going for 4m, 2 bed 2 bath.  Throw in 500/500 net and an 85 on the wall and you are living large 

[KhunLA]

  On 7/26/2022 at 7:57 PM, Captain Monday said:

So what's in YOUR bug-out bag?

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Just need my dog, everything else is replaceable.   Not that I would be the one bugging out ... ????

[parafareno]

  On 7/27/2022 at 1:59 AM, newnative said:

     As Big Star has said, who cares.   The question you should be asking is what is the project's  delinquency rate for condo fees.  Many condos that may seem abandoned are actually owned by absentee owners.  Lumpini Park Beach in Jomtien has tons of absentee Bangkok owners.  1800 units, with a high percentage sold, and when my partner and I lived there we often had the pool to ourselves, with sometimes one or two others, during the week.   If a condo has been abandoned and has delinquent maintenance fees, the project should follow the legal process for these abandoned units, as, apparently your project did.

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what does it mean, legal process?  they will demolish the condo cause you are the only one there?  So you have to cover the maintenance costs for all others that are not there?  I stayed in Pattaya Plaza condotel the first time I came to pattaya and I saw some doors barred down because they did not pay maintenance fee.... and then you hear on the other hand that russians decline to pay and maintenance fee also...and it seems that to be ok too

[KhunLA]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:15 AM, parafareno said:

chiang mai sucks...far from bkk, bad air...come on, never been there and never plan to go there

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Go during or cusp (end) of rainy season.  Lovely province, along with most of the North, if in the north.  Prefer the south myself.

[parafareno]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:16 AM, lextsy said:

Yeah it’s basically at the top of pratamnak hill corner unit on the shady side. Sun comes around at 2-3pm which it does get hot but for the price you can’t ask much more.  Aircon is rarely required. 
 

Even now 100sqm condos going for 4m, 2 bed 2 bath.  Throw in 500/500 net and an 85 on the wall and you are living large 

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i can barely understand your lingo  ""  Throw in 500/500 net and an 85 on the wall and you are living large""

 

[parafareno]

  On 7/27/2022 at 2:27 AM, Lacessit said:

There are arguments for and against owning and renting here. Both sides have validity, although I suspect many of the owners bought very early. I can't see condos as a good investment now.

I bought my condo in Chiang Rai as an asset to leave to my GF when I cark it. She can rent it out or sell it, up to her.

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how much and what size?

[lexxy]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:19 AM, parafareno said:

i can barely understand your lingo  ""  Throw in 500/500 net and an 85 on the wall and you are living large""

 

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Lol sorry 500mb upload and 500mb download internet and an 85 inch tv on the wall and you feel like you have the same luxuries as your home country 

 

 

[parafareno]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:24 AM, lextsy said:

Lol sorry 500mb upload and 500mb download internet and an 85 inch tv on the wall and you feel like you have the same luxuries as your home country 

 

 

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maybe i will become your neighbour, how much do you pay for maintenance?  also are the walls thick so you domnt hear neighbours talking or watching tv? 

[Lacessit]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:21 AM, parafareno said:

how much and what size?

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36 sqm, 1 million baht. Condo is well run, has a pool, shop and laundry.

[lexxy]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:41 AM, parafareno said:

maybe i will become your neighbour, how much do you pay for maintenance?  also are the walls thick so you domnt hear neighbours talking or watching tv? 

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Maintenance just went up but is still reasonable at 43b per Sqm.

 

You really cannot hear much tbh, very quiet. It’s a 1990 built condo so probably done half decent

[BigStar]

  On 7/26/2022 at 7:57 PM, Captain Monday said:

Nobody, but  nobody ever told me about a virus locking me out for 10 months completely disrupting my well curated international lifestyle. 

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Nobody told you, OMG. And your lifestyle interrupted for 10 months. SO sad.???? And your business, destroyed? How much time in ICU, where a friend of mine died of COVID? He had taped a "Do Not Resuscitate" notice to the side of his bed.

 

That interruption will last a bit longer than 10 months.

 

  On 7/26/2022 at 7:57 PM, Captain Monday said:

No, so  from here on not "investing" any more in Thailand.,

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Me, I've never invested in Thailand. I only buy to consume and enjoy. I lack the expertise, as do most expats, no matter their pretensions.

 

If you know what you're doing, as @newnative and his partner do, and are willing to work hard, then you can make some good money. I know a Belgian engineer who owned a small factory employing Thai workers. Now that was a real challenge. Speaks fluent Thai, conducted his own sales presentations, made a pile and sold to a large Japanese company. Super guy, smart, calm, patient, resilient. Deserved his high return.

 

Otherwise, you may end up like these idiots:

 

Pattaya residents and expats accuse bank manager of fraud, hold protest

 

Around 50 to 100 Thais and foreigners in Pattaya held a protest last Friday accusing the assistant manager of a local Kasikorn Bank branch of scamming them out of more than 300 million baht. A report was filed back in February accusing the assistant bank manager of defrauding people out of millions of baht, for some it was their life savings, by promising high returns for investments.

     --https://thethaiger.com/news/other-news/pattaya-residents-and-expats-accuse-bank-manager-of-fraud-hold-protest

 

For the average naif, I suggest only buying a property that will become your home--if want your own place. And that only after due diligence.

 

  On 7/26/2022 at 7:57 PM, Captain Monday said:

Every expat needs a plan B. My plan B has become my plan A. Implementation is in effect at this time

 

So what's in YOUR bug-out bag?

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I haven't yet seen a need for the requisite Plan B yet as I still enjoy my life in Pattaya. It's been smooth sailing for decades. Posters, usually renters, promoting Plan Bs are mostly paranoid and disgruntled, even already plagued by hellish brain-eating Whither Thailand? and Whither Pattaya? space monkeys.

 

Now one can try this remedy:

 

 

I recommended this solution to one of our stricken members and, incredibly, he's made some progress.

 

But most find the only remedy is to leave. Find happiness elsewhere and so improve the signal/noise ratio on the forum. Expats who return to Blighty are all just happy as clams and no longer inundate the forum with whinges.

 

Bug out bag, hmmm.

 

Now, no thread daring suggest the mere possibility of buying property in Thailand is complete without mentioning the classic, shrewd, street-smart AN (TVF) Poster Three Primal Laws Of Survival In Thailand. They've been formulated from countless disasters over the many years wherein expats have lost their ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS--never less.

 

1. Never invest in anything you aren't ready to lose;

2. Never own more than you can carry with you;

3. Keep your suitcase packed at all times.

 

You got to be ready to head for exits at just any moment before you lose everything,

 

Quoting one or more of the Laws gives you ten (+10) instant points of posting cred from renting brigade. Looks like you hit #1 and were close on #3, bingo.

[BigStar]

  On 7/26/2022 at 8:52 PM, parafareno said:

how the hell do i know if the walls will be paper thin and i will have a neighbour like you playing music all day and night....if the walls are decent and noiise insulation too that is not a problem....but I cant go bangking on walls and guessing how noise insulated tehy are

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Inspection tells you whether the walls are paper thin. Walls tend to be thicker in older buildings. I'm a fan of older, well-maintained buildings.

 

In the better condos, neighbors tend not be noisy, at least regularly. Many are mostly absent, esp in resort areas where the condo is a vacation home.

 

If your neighbors are too noisy, you can work things out by talking to them and even complaining to the condo management. Very different situation than living in cheap apts or fleabag hotels with mostly Thais and farang drunks around.

[BigStar]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:15 AM, parafareno said:

chiang mai sucks...far from bkk, bad air...come on, never been there and never plan to go there

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[newnative]

  On 7/27/2022 at 4:17 AM, parafareno said:

what does it mean, legal process?  they will demolish the condo cause you are the only one there?  So you have to cover the maintenance costs for all others that are not there?  I stayed in Pattaya Plaza condotel the first time I came to pattaya and I saw some doors barred down because they did not pay maintenance fee.... and then you hear on the other hand that russians decline to pay and maintenance fee also...and it seems that to be ok too

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       In a nutshell, if a condo owner is delinquent in paying maintenance fees, the condo project can take the owner to court to force payment.  Still delinquent, the court can order the sale of the condo to pay for delinquent fees.  Nothing is demolished. 

      Condo projects have the responsibility of collecting fees and dealing with delinquent owners.  Some do a better job of it than others.   This seems to be a big concern for you.  If so, I suggest checking the delinquency rate at any condo project you might be interested in.  You can also check the current condo fee, financials, and the sinking fund--the money held in reserve to help cover non-routine expenses.  

       

       

[Neeranam]

Bitcoin is so cheap now, I can't buy enough. Could be 2 years before it pumps again but I can wait.