A former President of the USA and possibly a threat to national security is beyond belief.........

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

However, over 70 million people did vote for Trump.

Yes, how sad, depressing, and disgusting.  But, on the bright side he did lose by over 7 million votes.  Loser.

On 8/14/2022 at 10:35 AM, Tippaporn said:

You're an Aussie.  So you can be forgiven for not knowing FBI history.  J. Edgar Hoover was as honest a FBI Director as they come.  Thanks for the injection of some much needed humour in this thread.

Back to being serious.  You suggest that questioning authority undermines one's credibility.  In actuality the reverse is true.  Those who slavishly follow authoritarians have lost all credibility.  And credibility may be the least of the noble virtues one contemptuously kicks to the gutter.

Are you willing to throw the respect and integrity of the FBI under the bus to save Donald Trump on the basis of the leadership of J. Edgar <deleted> Hoover? A man who died 50 years ago? I've been reading your comments thinking that you just somehow veered off the track at some point in your past and started to think that mainstream=bad and fringe=good. And everything weird that came after that is based on this simple mistake. That the less credulous the source, the more likely it's speaking the truth.

But why are you willing to sacrifice the entire FBI to save a silly little man like Donald Trump? Why would you argue that classified documents are actually declassified by Trump? If that argument is actually accepted the information in these documents will be freely available to everyone. Are you willing to take that risk, without even knowing what these documents contain? Just to save Trump? That's insanely fringe. And "brave". Just burn down the entire house to save Trump. The only way to show your undying loyalty and patriotism is to be willing to burn the nation to the ground. Just another interesting parallel to that story of Trump wanting loyalty on the level of Nazi generals from his own generals. 

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So what, with all of those votes, Trump STILL lost.

 

However over 81 million voted for Joe Biden.

 

See how easy it is to make a post with no bias. That took me about 30 seconds on Google.

 

https://www.cfr.org/blog/2020-election-numbers

 

The Popular Vote

Biden won 81,283,098 votes, or 51.3 percent of the votes cast. He is the first U.S. presidential candidate to have won more than 80 million votes. Trump won 74,222,958 votes, or 46.8 percent of the votes cast. That’s more votes than any other presidential candidate has ever won, with the exception of Biden. (Third-party candidates picked up 1.8 percent of the votes cast.)

81+ million votes and less than 30% of the publics support.  Plus 74% of Democrats don't want him to run again.  Something doesn't add up. 

On 8/12/2022 at 7:02 PM, pegman said:

 It just boggles the mind to see some Republican congressmen and Rupert Murdoch's Fox News personalities show more loyalty to that disloyal clown than to their own country 

What would you suggest? That the Republicans support Biden? You have a better chance of having lunch with the Pope!

1 minute ago, habanero said:

81+ million votes and less than 30% of the publics support.  Plus 74% of Democrats don't want him to run again.  Something doesn't add up. 

Most democrats are looking for somebody more progressive and more energetic than Biden.

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Have you ever tried to destroy a tank or an aeroplane let alone dozens or hundreds in the full view of the worlds press?

 

To remove all the weaponry would take months of preparation and removal work and extra manpower.

 

But I guess that for a keyboard warrior it is simply a matter of a few clicks on a keyboard.

 

Unfortunately real life is not that simple.

 

Back in the 1960s to move one Squadron of 12 aircraft, 20 pilots and around 100 ground crew from Norfolk to Libya for a month took 3 transport aircraft, 2 weeks of planning and transit flights across France and Malta to get to Libya and these were friendly territories. In addition equipment was already on station when we got there.

 

You think that moving an army and all its support equipment plus the hundreds of men and women over 1,500 km and 2 not really friendly countries to a seaport and then shipping it thousands of km back to the USA is so simple.

 

And that is only the Army, Then you have the USAF with all its man and women power and equipment, some of which can fly out on its own, some can be flown out but the rest will have to be transported.

 

Then of course you have all the support units with their equipment as well.

 

If you have no idea what is involved then a simple comment such as yours  quote "So why not demolish them then?" proves to me and to any ex military person how simple you are.

 

BTW the cost of this would be enormous and you would be whining about that too.

 

Why do you think that the Russians abandoned so much when they quit Afghanistan and ther are only across the border.

 

The cost of demolishing the equipment in front of the worlds news cameras would do incalculable damage to the USA.

So don't film it. Aircraft can be converted to unflyable wrecks quite quickly and easily. Armour with sabotaged engines and guns is quite useless after only a little time, expense and effort.

 

All better than leaving them intact for any enemy. These practices are well recorded in military history and a common part of military training. I'm surprised that a military man like you seems unaware of this.  

Thought I would post something from the mouth of the orange clown himself, which I definitely agree with......

 

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Thought I would post something from the mouth of the orange clown himself, which I definitely agree with......

 

Hillary I guess?

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hillary I guess?

Sure he had Hilary in mind, but 3 guesses who now is investigated by the FBI, and about every other government department in the US, and maybe in other parts of the world as well.

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Most democrats are looking for somebody more progressive and more energetic than Biden.

Younger? Yes.

More progressive?

Maybe a little bit but not much.

39 minutes ago, androokery said:

Are you willing to throw the respect and integrity of the FBI under the bus to save Donald Trump on the basis of the leadership of J. Edgar <deleted> Hoover? A man who died 50 years ago? I've been reading your comments thinking that you just somehow veered off the track at some point in your past and started to think that mainstream=bad and fringe=good. And everything weird that came after that is based on this simple mistake. That the less credulous the source, the more likely it's speaking the truth.

But why are you willing to sacrifice the entire FBI to save a silly little man like Donald Trump? Why would you argue that classified documents are actually declassified by Trump? If that argument is actually accepted the information in these documents will be freely available to everyone. Are you willing to take that risk, without even knowing what these documents contain? Just to save Trump? That's insanely fringe. And "brave". Just burn down the entire house to save Trump. The only way to show your undying loyalty and patriotism is to be willing to burn the nation to the ground. Just another interesting parallel to that story of Trump wanting loyalty on the level of Nazi generals from his own generals. 

Do you understand that the office of the potus has absolute sweeping power to declassify anywhere anytime and that many Americans especially this one feel his detractors are fringed in over reaching again

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

Do you understand that the office of the potus has absolute sweeping power to declassify anywhere anytime and that many Americans especially this one feel his detractors are fringed in over reaching again

He can not just say something is declassified, there are steps and procedures to declas8fu clasd8fied items. Even then you just can't hold onto them, they are still kept under lock and key until a public records request is made.  If I was president and wanted the Donalds or some civilians Tax records do you think I can just grab them and should have them without proper steps being taken?

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hillary I guess?

Of course you guess Hillary, she’s living rent free in your head.

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

He can not just say something is declassified, there are steps and procedures to declas8fu clasd8fied items. Even then you just can't hold onto them, they are still kept under lock and key until a public records request is made. 

He can absolutely just say something is Declassified.

 

But in doing so he puts a peg in the ground.

 

His statement is an admission of guilt.

 

 

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

Do you understand that the office of the potus has absolute sweeping power to declassify anywhere anytime and that many Americans especially this one feel his detractors are fringed in over reaching again

No. And really? You too? This line of argument is so incredibly careless. You would let this information be spread freely just to protect this pathetic individual? Even though you don't know its content? Only that it was once considered extremely sensitive? Why?

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

He can not just say something is declassified, there are steps and procedures to declas8fu clasd8fied items. Even then you just can't hold onto them, they are still kept under lock and key until a public records request is made. 

Id like to see your source for that ! Maybe true for others but the office of the Potus has broad sweeping absolute over everything and anybody “at anytime “ , in fact he only needs to speak it.

46 minutes ago, habanero said:

81+ million votes and less than 30% of the publics support.  

Less than 30%? No wonder so many Trump supporters think he won. 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He can absolutely just say something is Declassified.

 

But in doing so he puts a peg in the ground.

 

His statement is an admission of guilt.

 

 

Try again...

Here's how government documents are classified to keep sensitive ...https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/heres-how-government-documents-are-classified-to-keep-sensitive-information-safe-188687

 

And this

 

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12356.html#part3

 

b) Information originated by a President, the White House Staff, by committees, commissions, or boards appointed by the President, or others specifically providing advice and counsel to a President or acting on behalf of a President is exempted from the provisions of Section 3.4(a). The Archivist of the United States shall have the authority to review, downgrade and declassify information under the control of the Administrator of General Services or the Archivist pursuant to sections 2107, 2107 note, or 2203 of title 44, United States Code. Review procedures developed by the Archivist shall provide for consultation with agencies having primary subject matter interest and shall be consistent with the provisions of applicable laws or lawful agreements that pertain to the respective presidential papers or records. Any decision by the Archivist may be appealed to the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office. Agencies with primary subject matter interest shall be notified promptly of the Director's decision on such appeals and may further appeal to the National Security Council. The information shall remain classified pending a prompt decision on the appeal.

 

Ergo why the archives is where the documents belong not in one's home.

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Of course you guess Hillary, she’s living rent free in your head.

Of course not. We all know what the obsession is here and who feels the need for it to last forever.

17 minutes ago, riclag said:

Do you understand that the office of the potus has absolute sweeping power to declassify anywhere anytime and that many Americans especially this one feel his detractors are fringed in over reaching again

You sure about that?

"The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit endorsed that view in a 2020 decision, saying that “declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures.”

In that case, the appeals court denied an effort by the New York Times to obtain documents about a covert Central Intelligence Agency operation in Syria. The newspaper had argued then-President Trump declassified the program by tweeting about it and making other public comments."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-search-of-mar-a-lago-achieved-doj-top-priority-get-the-documents-11660512503#:~:text=The U.S. Court,making other public comments.

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

Id like to see your source for that ! Maybe true for others but the office of the Potus has broad sweeping absolute over everything and anybody “at anytime “ , in fact he only needs to speak it.

Do you believe that "at anytime" means retroactively? And that this "get-out-of-jail-free-card", if it indeed were valid (which it isn't), would be in the best interest of the nation?

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Of course not. We all know what the obsession is here and who feels the need for it to last forever.

We all know what is the topic of discussion, and for those who occasionally forget it’s still there at the top of the thread 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We all know what is the topic of discussion, and for those who occasionally forget it’s still there at the top of the thread 

Funny. That's what I said!

43 minutes ago, riclag said:

Id like to see your source for that ! Maybe true for others but the office of the Potus has broad sweeping absolute over everything and anybody “at anytime “ , in fact he only needs to speak it.

Totally irrelevant argument anyway, any charges laid against him are not reliant on the documents being classified (although they certainly were in my opinion). The warrant statutes make that clear.

On 8/13/2022 at 10:21 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

The warrant is the lawfully approved basis for the raid.

 

Evidence of extremely serious crimes has been recovered.

 

Next step, Grand Jury.

Yes. For the, shall we say "less sophisticated" of the public yammering " why didn't they arrest him, then?", it is because of a principle in American jurisprudence of a "presumption of innocence" until he has been indicted, tried, and convicted, if that is even the purpose here. I have read that NARA may be satisfied with just getting the docs back to a place of safety, which a basement room in the Maralago Resort Hotel.arguably is not

10 minutes ago, Kwaibill said:

Yes. For the, shall we say "less sophisticated" of the public yammering " why didn't they arrest him, then?", it is because of a principle in American jurisprudence of a "presumption of innocence" until he has been indicted, tried, and convicted, if that is even the purpose here. I have read that NARA may be satisfied with just getting the docs back to a place of safety, which a basement room in the Maralago Resort Hotel.arguably is not

Just getting the docs back will never be enough.

 

It needs to be known who has seen them.

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Just getting the docs back will never be enough.

 

It needs to be known who has seen them.

I agree that that should be in the works. Just reporting on one comment I read  re: NARA's interest. If DOJ et al want to carry through, they get my vote. 

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Thought I would post something from the mouth of the orange clown himself, which I definitely agree with......

 

Things to seem to come back and bite Trump:

 

- "Anyone being investigated by the FBI is not qualified to be the President of the United States" - dates as your image

 

- "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?" - 2016

 

- Trump pleaded the Fifth more than 440 times during his deposition in New York - 2022

 

- Trump approved a law increasing penalties for mishandling classified info. - 2018

 

- Not Even the President Can Declassify Nuclear Secrets - The Washington Post reported that the material included “documents relating to nuclear weapons,”

 

2 hours ago, habanero said:

81+ million votes and less than 30% of the publics support.  Plus 74% of Democrats don't want him to run again.  Something doesn't add up. 

Only if you don't want it to add up.

 

Nobody can forecast accurately even 2 weeks ahead let alone months or years.