Thailand has strong fire-safety laws, so why do deadly nightclub blazes keep happening?

[Lemonltr]

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Strong fire safety laws?

 

I was shocked to learn that Smoke Detectors are not required in apartments unless the building is more than 6 stories high

 

(Apparently on the theory that jumping from a 6th floor or lower window is safe).

That's a tall story

[Aussieroaming]

When you have a culture where ignoring laws is a daily occurance what should be the expected outcome? This isn't a problem with just the RTP not enforcing laws, it is a problem with every Thai routinely ignoring laws. Keep breaking small laws leads to eventual big law flouting as well and the ramifications when it all goes pitong, such as the fire. The RTP are a part of the problem, but the Thai citizens are the biggest portion of the problem.

 

Thr only way to turn the phenomenon of Thais ignoring laws around is to act in a draconian manner until Thais realise the consequences and start proactively self governing their own behaviour. If they want a model that works then they should turn to the Singaporean model of law and order, where fines, floggings, jail or the death sentance are all used to deter criminality. It might seem to be too big brotherish but it works a treat.

[Road Warrior]

6 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

Anek said that while current fire-safety laws and regulations are adequate, their enforcement is not.

 

And there it is in a nutshell !!!!!

so very true indeed 

[Cake Monster]

It is not just the deadly Fires that seem to keep reoccurring.

In the wider picture, there are so many tragedies that seem to happen in Thailand, which seem to be senseless.

The Chinese Ferry Disaster in Phuket about 4 Years ago now - 49 people perished

The numerous Minivan accidents that claim so many lives every Year

The collapse of the Rama 2 road 

Etc Etc Etc the list goes on and on

Until the Cancer of Nepotism, Cronyism, Corruption and rampant greed are dealt with, all these tragedies will continue

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Let them do as they wish.... not your business, not your worry, going off topic.

So you started it by saying “in a place where flip flops are regarded as protective footwear, and a baseball cap is a crash helmet!”

 

Then when somebody continues in the same vein, you are rude and dismissive to them; time for you to get over your self importance.

[NobbyClarke]

As a Police Chief once said to me" Thailand not ask you come here, you pay come here, you can pay come and go anytime you want. You not like GO"

No truer words ever said.

[FunkyDunky58]

Strange article that answered its own question.

[Purdey]

Doesn't anyone wonder why, with all the foreigners being condescending towards Thais here, they all prefer living here than living in their safe, developed nations?

It wasn't until the Vietnam war that Thailand's economy started to pick up and poor Thais began to make some money besides in agriculture. They found shortcuts to making money and people still want that laissez faire freedom to get rich like the American soldiers they saw based here. The difference is the soldiers have been replaced by tourists.

The police also want to be rich and ethics don't come into it. Every time a foreigner says that dangerous sentence "where I come from..." Thais think "why can't I have some of that?." 

Every country has laws, so why do we have prisons if everyone respects the law?

 

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm…. Maybe it’s because no one in Thailand gives a  sh*t ?

[Chongalulu]

9 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

that's part of the charm of living here though. makes it a hell of a lot more interesting than boring old Ferrangland ????

Absolutely!…right up until the time you or your loved one is on a mortuary slab….

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, NobbyClarke said:

As a Police Chief once said to me" Thailand not ask you come here, you pay come here, you can pay come and go anytime you want. You not like GO"

No truer words ever said.

Words that might ring hollow with the parents of the dead nightclub patrons..

[Dont confuse me]

The same reason nothing works 100% here, 'corruption' and corruption will always be prominent until  all people across the spectrum are paid decent wages.

[Pedrogaz]

Well that's a hard question to answer? Maybe we should answer why there are so many road deaths each year? It has the same answer. The cops in this case probably got a bung from the owner to turn a blind eye to allow him to operate illegally. 

[Pedrogaz]

This is my own experience with Thai electricians. When I had my house built I had the overseer of electricity (my friend) for the town to instruct the electrician. Apparently my friend knew the guy who "trained" my electrician.

 

I asked for the system to be earthed. OK that's extra. OK.

 

So I do a little check on one of the socket systems. There is a green wire poking out for where the earth should be.....but sadly for me, it wasn't attached to anything else.....deliberate fraud and dangerous. Remediation has cost me a fortune (500K or so).

[NoshowJones]

A very easy question to answer, so I will answer it in only two words, brown envelopes.

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, Henryford said:

Like all Thai laws, they are not enforced unless the RTP need a payout.

Is there any time they don't need a payout?

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

If the 12am closing times were adhered to these people would still be alive !

Closing times and opening times are nothing to do with peoples safety. They can open 24 hours a day if the safety rules are adhered to.

[MrJ2U]

Many of the bars are owned partly or entirely by the police.  

 

There not going to close themselves down let alone spend an extra baht to make things up to code.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, new2here said:

On paper, thailand really is very much like most other major countries in terms of the law: what is and is not legal.  

 

As example, Thailand’s law relates to the operation of motor vehicles is actually quite similar to that of the US and most parts of Europe… 

 

So, to that end, Thailand is quite similar to most other places… it’s not that much of an outlier…..

 

but… as noted earlier, it’s the processes of enforcement and administration of these laws that kind of dilutes their impact… and takes them off the rails… 

 

In my view, any laws without real and consistent enforcement are essentially only societal “suggestions” … and laws that are not administered openly, equally and transparently are only subjective punishments to be applied when/where the punisher, in their unquestioned opinion, feels just and against only those the punisher disapproves of, also in their own unquestioned opinion.

 

Lastly, as a cumulative product of years of this reality, there’s a collective public mindset of acceptance which essentially feeds an apathetic viewpoint — the perfect environment for those who operate the system, to continue to do so with little to no accountability or pushback from the public at large.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with laws and rules as long as they are there for a good reason and not just for certain people the weild their power.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, AussieinThaiJim said:

The sooner police are moved from one province to another and we get serious policing the better. This situation has to stop. Lock more of the Thai police up for bribes and corruption!

Does it not start from the Generals, Lt/Cols, and Maj/ Gens and all the other fancy ranks that are bought and paid for?

[richard_smith237]

(Nearly) All of Thailands laws a good laws... 

... road laws, nearly all good laws. 

... Building laws, good laws.

... Fire laws, good laws.

 

They are nearly all good laws, but they mean nothing without effective enforcement. 

The issue with the current state of law enforcement is that not only is it ineffective, it also enables illegal and corrupt practices which lead to a sense of entitlement that short cuts are taken. 

 

 

[TKDfella]

10 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

I do not disagree.

The bit that amuses me is that pretty much everyone who posts here breaks the law somewhere.

The charm of living here is that we decide which laws we want to break.

The complaints about the lack of law enforcement is just people complaining that someone else breaks different laws.

'The charm of living here is that we decide which laws we want to break....' Al Capone would have loved having you on his team.

We all have our own reasons for living here but at least we know what your reason is.????

[cardinalblue]

Thailand is a cultural compliance culture….it is not a regulatory compliance culture.

 

they only copy health and safety regulations from the west…this is to appease the west…they have no clue on how and why these laws, regulation and statutes come to fruition…

 

they have no understanding why these rules exist and the importance of the rules….nothing but a paper Tiger as they don’t follow thru with inspection compliance, enforcement and legal accountability/punishment 

 

it is really a big joke…

[Bday Prang]

7 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Yes indeed, I used to when living in Thailand - extension of my annual retirement visa courtesy of a brown envelope to my local friendly Immigration Officer!!

naughty boy tut tut tut

[itsari]

12 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

Oh really, it may not be a legal requirement, but, at least in my neck of the woods, more motorcyclists still seem to wear masks than don't, whilst, as you say, don't feel that a helmet is needed.  

Many motorcyclists wore masks before the pandemic in my area .

[David T Pike]

Like everyone here doesn't already know the answer to the title's question and the problem with all of Thailand's laws? Enforcement, enforcement enforcement!!! Seems like the only building codes in Thailand are the secret ones meaning "Pay me and I wont write you up!"

[Bday Prang]

5 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

When you have a culture where ignoring laws is a daily occurance what should be the expected outcome? This isn't a problem with just the RTP not enforcing laws, it is a problem with every Thai routinely ignoring laws. Keep breaking small laws leads to eventual big law flouting as well and the ramifications when it all goes pitong, such as the fire. The RTP are a part of the problem, but the Thai citizens are the biggest portion of the problem.

 

Thr only way to turn the phenomenon of Thais ignoring laws around is to act in a draconian manner until Thais realise the consequences and start proactively self governing their own behaviour. If they want a model that works then they should turn to the Singaporean model of law and order, where fines, floggings, jail or the death sentance are all used to deter criminality. It might seem to be too big brotherish but it works a treat.

And how many people would want to live here then ? You can count me out for a start If you consider that system to be so ideal why not just move there ?

[itsari]

5 hours ago, NobbyClarke said:

As a Police Chief once said to me" Thailand not ask you come here, you pay come here, you can pay come and go anytime you want. You not like GO"

No truer words ever said.

If you consider the police police officers statement as truth then you are in my mind nieve .

Perhaps you asked him how much he paid for his job ?

Go and ask for an opinion from a hotel owner for example what he thinks about the value of tourists and retirees in Thailand .

[Thalueng]

While corruption is a problem in this country, it's not the explanation of every problem or disaster. Understanding the root causes of this disaster also has nothing to do with it, and asking the question is not childish.

 

This disaster like similar before happened because of a underlying lack of awareness of dangers in all people of this country, lack of adequate education, and the expectation of everyone to make everything as comfortable as possible. 

 

Examples of lack of danger awareness were already stated, like wear a mask but no helmet. This is not just people who ride motorcycles, but most Thai or maybe Asian people.

 

Education of Electricians is mostly outdated and incomplete. Wiring is done based on times where Thailand was on 110V mains. Adequate wiring for 220V mains would allow to save money, but nobody seems to understand this and it's even not properly reflected in Thai electrical codes.

 

Now what has comfort levels to do with it? Proper safety breakers are likely to have prevented this disaster. A safety breaker is supposed to cut power when too high currents are flowing through the wires, but nobody wants a power interruption so breakers are oversized multiple times. Check your own house or condo and you will find 32 amp breakers for your bed room, where 10 or even 6 would be sufficient. Aircons and water heaters need more, but they are on different breakers anyway.

 

And while checking, your residual safety breaker is not working properly because your ground connection is insufficient, if you even have one. If you are not fixing this you are as negligent as the owners of this club.

 

So, without strengthening norms and codes, education, and general population awareness I'm afraid such accidents will continue to happen.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Thalueng
Typos

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

Although safety rules and building-control laws are in place, operators and authorities still have a casual attitude towards compliance. The result is that avoidable disasters continue to happen on a regular basis, with victims struggling and dying in the flames.

Because this is the mentality of Thailand... everything is on a budget and safety comes last as does the customer.