Should Expats Be Able to Speak Thai

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So how come waitress number 2 understood what I was saying ?

I said it about five times to waitress number 1 and she didn't understand

I said it once to waitress number 2 and she understood 

 

That's the same as westerners who understood when a Thai person says 'you want eat fit?'. Most westerners would not know what that means if they were to hear it for the first time.

 

It's because the second waitress has already listened to westerners mispronounced the words in the past and know what you are trying to say.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by EricTh

[spidermike007]

No. It is a very difficult language, the Thai people are not linguists, and have very little ability to understand someone who is not speaking Thai very well. 

 

I speak other languages, but find Thai to be very challenging. The tones are hard for alot of people to figure out. I can travel anywhere in Latin America and be understood. Why? Because the people try to understand me, and are linguistically creative. Not here. 

 

I can count to one million in Thai. And speak some phrases, ask some questions, order food, negotiate, etc. That is about it. I have minimal interest in learning the language. 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by spidermike007

[473geo]

I am ok with the Thai numbers.

Learning a little basic Thai, slowly

The reason I will not learn quickly if at all ☺️ would be that my wife knows I am very outspoken, call it as it is ???? which as we all know is not quite the Thai way 

 

So in the interest of not upsetting our family and friends, my wife is giving me no support at all, in fact appears to find it quite alarming when I turn out a new word or phrase ????

 

 

[AsianAtHeart]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

No. It is a very difficult language, the Thai people are not linguists, and have very little ability to understand someone who is not speaking Thai very well. 

 

I speak other languages, but find Thai to be very challenging. The tones are hard for alot of people to figure out. I can travel anywhere in Latin America and be understood. Why? Because the people try to understand me, and are linguistically creative. Not here. 

 

Multilingual here as well, but I found Chinese to be far more difficult to learn than Thai for two major reasons:

 

1) The culture of the people was not conducive to learning.  Asking more than about two questions per day might produce a response like "You should find a Chinese teacher."  They really didn't seem interested in helping a foreigner learn their language.

 

2) Chinese has no alphabet.  There are 86,000+ ideograms, around 3,000 of which will be common in the newspapers.  While they have "roots" that they can attempt to classify their characters by, looking anything up in a dictionary can be tedious.  No alphabet, no alphabetical order--you might be reduced to counting strokes.

 

So, reading 300+ Chinese characters was really inadequate to attain proficiency in the language.  With Thai, learning 44 consonants and 32 vowels seems so much simpler.  I could read Thai before I knew what any of it meant--and reading it first is what helped me learn correct pronunciation, because the Thai people, like folk in most any country, tend to slur their words and not enunciate them clearly.  For example, is it "samlap" or "samrap"?  Reading the word will tell you.

 

Spanish has no more tones than English.  Thai has five or six tones (depending how one counts), Mandarin has four tones, Cantonese has 8 or 9 tones, Hmong has nine tones, etc.  With more tones, the language complexity increases, and foreign speakers of the language have a more difficult time being understood because there are so many possible close matches to their not-quite-right pronunciations.

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You are mistaken on several points.

They may be able to speak central Thai, but they don't use it in conversation with each other.

And if you're going to speak with them in central Thai it's probably their 3rd language.

 

It's their second language, the third language is English.

 

All school children in northern Thai, Isaan and southern Thai must learn and can speak standard Thai. 

 

Those who cannot speak standard Thai well are usually very elderly people or foreign workers from Myanmar, Laos or Cambodia.

Edited August 29, 2022 by EricTh

[cdemundo]

I am inclined to think that this thread is simply "bragging in the form of a question".

So the OP is pleased with themselves because they speak Thai, good for them.

Everyone knows that learning an additional language as an adult is difficult and that facility in learning a language differs widely among people.

The responses probably also go along those lines, those who have successfully learned Thai will express that it is a moral imperative to learn Thai. 

Those who have not will explain why they have had difficulty.

Kind of predictable.

[peterfranks]

14 minutes ago, EricTh said:

That's the same as westerners who understand when a Thai person say 'you want eat fit?'. Most westerners would not know what that means if they were to hear it for the first time.

Bad example, because the fit doesn't resemble the word food at all.

 

It is a fact that Thais simply are too stubborn, and don't want to make even the slightest attempt to understand.

 

One of the first time I arrived in Don Muang, there were taxi drivers waiting the the arrival hall, asking me in ENGLISH, where you gooooo.

 

When I said Pattaya they had no idea where I want to go, until one of the smart ones explained it want to go to Pattayaaa

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

I am inclined to think that this thread is simply "bragging in the form of a question".

So the OP is pleased with themselves because they speak Thai, good for them.

Everyone knows that learning an additional language as an adult is difficult and that facility in learning a language differs widely among people.

The responses probably also go along those lines, those who have successfully learned Thai will express that it is a moral imperative to learn Thai. 

Those who have not will explain why they have had difficulty.

Kind of predictable.

This reply is from one of those who   ‘have had difficulty’ then ????? 

 

Defensive... Kind of predictable...  

 

Or you could explain how you don’t speak a word of Thai, but live in an area of central Bangkok where 99% of those around speak English and the absence of Thai knowledge impacts you very little.. 

 

Or... do you want to have a little brag ?

[EricTh]

1 minute ago, peterfranks said:

Bad example, because the fit doesn't resemble the word food at all.

 

I am not surprised that you do not know what Thai people meant when they speak 'fit'. It's a mispronunciation that most Thai people make.

 

It is not the word 'food', try again.

[peterfranks]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

I am not surprised that you do not know what Thai people meant when they speak 'fit'. It's a mispronunciation that most Thai people make.

 

It is not the word 'food', try again.

Why you not tell us which English word it would resemble?

 

 

[EricTh]

8 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Multilingual here as well, but I found Chinese to be far more difficult to learn than Thai for two major reasons:

 

 

Learning Thai is just like learning two languages ie. Sanskrit and Tai.

 

I learnt classroom Thai language for many months but then I found out that most Thai don't speak like that, they used a completely different vocabulary and grammar.

[ChrisP24]

Some people have a talent for learning other languages, but many don't, especially as they age. I took a very short (two-week) Thai langauge class while on vacation there last year, and I think I could pick it up, but it would take time and sustained effort, while also immersed to retain vocabulary and learn everyday conversational context, pronunciation and grammar.  And the word logic is so very different from English, for example Thai classifier words, there is apparently even one specifically applied only to round fruits (!!!???).     I've read that the real breakthough comes when a person starts learning to read Thai.

 

I think that a foreigner who lives there ought to make the effort if they have any aptitude for languages, more to enrich their own experience living in their host country than to acclimate or "try to become Thai".  Same as most of us view expats from Asia to our home country - - if they make no effort to learn the local language they will miss out on a lot, and be helpless in doing even simple things like renew a driver's license without help from someone who speaks the local language. 

[AsianAtHeart]

3 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Why you not tell us which English word it would resemble?

 

 

Those more familiar with Thai will pick up on this one right away.  In Thai, certain consonants at the end of a syllable always convert to a "T" sound.  That would include T, D, S, J, and, in this case, a consonant from English that Thai does not have, "SH."

[richard_smith237]

31 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

That's the same as westerners who understand when a Thai person say 'you want eat fit?'. Most westerners would not know what that means if they were to hear it for the first time.

 

It's because the second waitress has already listened to westerners mispronounced the words in the past and know what you are trying to say.

 

Depends if there was fish on the menu and especially IF the question is within context or completely out of the blue...

 

But I get your point....  

 

Sometimes I am utterly flummoxed by my Wife... 

... we’re driving down he road, talking about my son’s school and my wife then asks if I enjoyed the ‘Profit roll’....  I’m totally lost...

I ask... What... Profit roll ???... is he doing economics ???.. he is studying economics at school? he’s too young for that surely...   

... No.. ‘profiteroles’.. why are you talking about his school, I’m asking if you liked last nights desert ?????  

.... ahh.. yeah... they were lovely..    How was the tiramisu ??

... what subject is that ??

... Please stop on this bridge, I’m going to jump... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by richard_smith237

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, tomazbodner said:

Surely there is a verythey already have to many requirements simple way to improve Thai literacy of the expat AseanNow members (at least most of them) by introducing a Thai language exam as part of the extension of stay requirements. Maybe start with retirement extensions?

They already have to many requirements don't need any more

[brewsterbudgen]

10 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Surely there is a very simple way to improve Thai literacy of the expat AseanNow members (at least most of them) by introducing a Thai language exam as part of the extension of stay requirements. Maybe start with retirement extensions?

Why would the Thai government want to do that?!  There's already a basic Thai language test for those wanting Permanent Resident status, extensions are a regular source of revenue and are only valid for one year. Why would anyone want or need to learn a language for a year?

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, Dene16 said:

don't know how you can say German is hard when so many words sound similar to English or begin with the same letter as in English. links left, rects  right, hund hound, frei free, zucker sugar, haben have, miich mik, auto car gold gold, tea tee, red rot and the list goes on and on. 

Agree. In secondary college, I learned Latin, French, and German. The last was by far the easiest to comprehend.

Perhaps the poster was talking about compound words, such as schadenfreude. Or gesamtstickstoff.

[transam]

14 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

The less educated tend to use that term "farang," but the more clever / intelligent / polite Thai will deliberately avoid that word because it is neither the officially correct word to use for alien visitors ("farang" actually should mean "French") and because most foreigners have picked up on it and will catch it in their conversation.  The word they will use to keep you out of the loop that they are talking about you is "kon tang chat" (คนต่างชาติ) (person of other nation).  An alternate version might be "kon tang dao" (คนต่างด้าว) (person of other land, more often used for Burmese, Lao, etc. or perhaps for illegal immigrants--basically any non-Thai citizen).

You better pop round my pub and tutor them then, eh....????

[transam]

13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You would need to have earnt about 20 000 Quid per year and paid UK tax  for the last three years for your Mrs to get a U.K settlement visa

It can be done......????

[AsianAtHeart]

46 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Why would the Thai government want to do that?!  There's already a basic Thai language test for those wanting Permanent Resident status, extensions are a regular source of revenue and are only valid for one year. Why would anyone want or need to learn a language for a year?

I agree that there should not be a requirement to learn Thai, at least for visa purposes (naturalization is another matter), but perhaps they could incentivize it in some way.

[2009]

An expat on a 1 year visa.....No!

[brewsterbudgen]

59 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I agree that there should not be a requirement to learn Thai, at least for visa purposes (naturalization is another matter), but perhaps they could incentivize it in some way.

"They" being Immigration/the government?  Not sure there's much incentive in them doing it, unless they can make money out of it.  It might be better for them to provide English/Mandarin and other language classes to Immigration/government officials!

[BritManToo]

11 hours ago, ChrisP24 said:

Same as most of us view expats from Asia to our home country - - if they make no effort to learn the local language they will miss out on a lot, and be helpless in doing even simple things like renew a driver's license without help from someone who speaks the local language. 

Can't think of anything I needed to do in Thailand that required me to speak Thai or hire an interpreter.

Can't think of anything I missed out on in Thailand by not speaking Thai.

 

Most Thai chat is just repetitive, dull, nonsense.

They can talk for an hour about the fish they just ate.

[brewsterbudgen]

14 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You would need to have earnt about 20 000 Quid per year and paid UK tax  for the last three years for your Mrs to get a U.K settlement visa

The income requirements for UK settlement are an annual income of £18,600 or savings of £62,500.  All UK income is taxed.  Foreign income counts as well, if it meets the threshold.

[BritManToo]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

The income requirements for UK settlement are an annual income of £18,600 or savings of £62,500.  All UK income is taxed.  Foreign income counts as well, if it meets the threshold.

That income is only required for the year you apply.

My pension would cover it.

[brewsterbudgen]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

That income is only required for the year you apply.

My pension would cover it.

There are similar financial requirements for Leave to Remain too.

[2009]

13 hours ago, peterfranks said:

There is no reason to be less sensitive, since farang is the correct word and not insulting.

Farang is only used to categorize all whites together.

 

Really, it is the same as saying: oriental, <deleted>, chinky, gook, spick, beaner etc. etc.

 

There is a polite word used to describe ALL foreigners and that's, "Tangchaat" (ต่างชาติ)

[2009]

18 hours ago, NickyLouie said:

I think if you are an expat you should be able to communicate in Thai.

Shocked at how many people tell me they have been here over 10 years

Most language learners get to a point where they have reach a level of proficiency to satisfy their needs. 

 

Few continue further.

 

And I certainly don't think I'll be having eloquent conversations about refined topics in Thai anytime soon with the company I keep. Lol.

 

But if those can get by happily without any Thai, fair enough. Why should they learn?

[transam]

17 hours ago, peterfranks said:

I have never worked in Thailand, retired at 32, don;t eat with 4 from 128gr tin of Tuna, or feed my kid Tulip chocolate with 12% cocoa and 64 % sugar, and tell him it tasted the same as cote d'or

Oh really, well crack on then................????

[transam]

17 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Rudeness and arrogance. If you live anywhere learn the language. I bet they whinge foreigners cannot speak English back home.

Do you know what dyslexic means....?

If you do, do you run these people down...?

 

Well, I have similar but regarding languages, what do you think about that....?