Nine-year-old in Phuket claims to suffer sustained severe hair loss after receiving a Covid-19 vaccine, Public Health office says not to jump to conclusions

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, EricTh said:

40 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

I've felt awful since my first jab, even worse after the second and third, but no hair loss so far.

Which vaccine did you take?

Does it matter ??...  Its the vaccine that made him feel awful... nothing else, the vaccine because the covid vaccines are bad. 

[Cat ji]

Nonsense. <deleted>. Sounds like straight from Daily Express or The Sun or something.

And of course motivated by anti-vaccine attitude, just one step from science denial and foolish conspiracy theories.

[rattlesnake]

26 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Absolutely gross" that you're suggesting that it's being forced on them.

My son's cousin received 2 Pfizer shots at the village as instructed by the Poo Yai Baan. Technically you can say no but there is tremendous pressure and nobody swims against the tide, it's not in the culture. 

 

That's coercion.

[richard_smith237]

This story is designed to deliberately trigger the ‘anti-vax vs vax’ debate...

 

How about "Nine-year-old in Phuket claims to suffer sustained severe hair loss after eating ice-cream”...

 

 

Its as silly as the myocarditis / pericarditis debate where anti-vaxxers always omit the fact that Covid-19 suffers are 100x more likely to suffer acute myocarditis or pericarditis than those who have taken the mRNA vaccine...

They then completely omit the status that 1 in 10 people suffering from influenza encounter acute myocarditis or pericarditis.

 

The reality is when we become unwell parts of our body become inflamed... this is also the heart, its not rare and its fully recoverable in all but extremely rare cases. 

 

 

These ‘vaccine triggered’ issues citied by anti-vaxxers or those media outlets attempted to trigger debate (and thus clicks) always source such under-whelmingly cherry-picked and overwhelmingly underprepared arguments. 

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, transam said:

This thread will give the anti-vax lot something to dribble over...????

Ah, those rabid anti-vaxxers… At least they bring in a lot of traffic.

[AsianAtHeart]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It appears hair loss, often temporary, can be a potential side effect of BOTH COVID infections and COVID vaccinations in certain cases.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8673931/

 

"Alopecia areata (AA) is a T lymphocyte-mediated autoimmune condition characterized by hair loss due to an inflammatory response targeting the hair follicle. Recent reports have suggested that COVID-19 may trigger a variety of autoimmune conditions, including AA. Herein, we report 9 cases of AA following SARS-CoV-2 vaccination."

...

"Hair loss following SARS-CoV-2 vaccination is an increasingly reported phenomenon in the United States and globally.... This report is limited by the fact that cause and effect cannot be clearly identified in any of the cases."

 

"Of note, many medical treatments exist for alopecia, and spontaneous hair regrowth is estimated to occur in approximately 80% of patients within a year after the first incidence of hair loss."

 

Also more here on how COVID infection itself can cause hair loss:

 

"The prevalence of hair loss has increased during COVID-19. In this study, we review the current literature on incidence and characteristics of various types of COVID-19-related and COVID-19-vaccine- related hair loss..."

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dth.15433

 

There can be many potential adverse effects due to autoimmune disease, ranging from rheumatoid arthritis to blood diseases to intestinal disorders.  Some say there are over a hundred types of autoimmune diseases that have been identified.

 

  Consider this article, for a start:

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34957554/

 

One snippet from the article:

 

"Recently, new-onset autoimmune phenomena after COVID-19 vaccination have been reported increasingly (e.g. immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia, autoimmune liver diseases, Guillain-Barré syndrome, IgA nephropathy, rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus). Molecular mimicry, the production of particular autoantibodies and the role of certain vaccine adjuvants seem to be substantial contributors to autoimmune phenomena."

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsourced and unsubstantiated claims removed

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

57 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34957554/

 

One snippet from the article:

 You, apparently quite intentionally, left out other pertinent parts of their summary:

 

"whether the association between COVID-19 vaccine and autoimmune manifestations is coincidental or causal remains to be elucidated."

 

AND

 

"In fact, we do not aim to disavow the overwhelming benefits of mass COVID-19 vaccination in preventing COVID-19 morbidity and mortality."

 

Also, from everything I've read elsewhere on this topic, like most other potential COVID vaccination related side effects that are significant, these type are believed to be exceedingly rare.

 

Especially considering that there have been almost 13 BILLION COVID vaccine doses administered thus far since they were first made available.

 

 

And have been credited with saving some 20 million lives worldwide in just their first year of use, people who otherwise would have died from COVID.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/06/covid-19-vaccines-saved-estimated-20-million-lives-1-year

 

 

[partington]

55 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

 

What you are describing is one part of the immune response to most intact disease pathogens infecting cells.

 

If  Covid-19 virus proteins are expressed by cells as a result of infection and ongoing disease, and those cells are targeted and destroyed by T-cells, why is this not also the beginning of autoimmune disease? And then why doesn't every pathogen triggering T-cell phagocytosis cause autoimmune disease?

 

The mRNA and DNA in vaccines are not stable, and are only transiently expressed for a matter of days, unlike replicating viruses, which can persist for weeks, multiplying thousands and millions of fold.

 

Why do you then think that this transient expression is more likely to produce autoimmune responses than infection by the actual pathogen itself? 

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, ed strong said:

Absolutely gross that they are jabbing 9 year olds.

 

Sure if you are over 60 and suffer from some ailments then sure take the flu and cold jabs but other than that its disgusting to see what is happening.

Foolish.

 

I guess you feel that way about Polio, Measles, etc vaccines.

 

Ludicrous. 

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

My son's cousin received 2 Pfizer shots at the village as instructed by the Poo Yai Baan. Technically you can say no but there is tremendous pressure and nobody swims against the tide, it's not in the culture. 

 

That's coercion.

Perhaps lifesaving.

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by onthedarkside
flame comment removed

[onthedarkside]

One post with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims has been removed, along with a trolling post.

 

If posters here wish to present medical-related claims, information, and explanations, they need to source those with weblinks to credible sources.

 

[AsianAtHeart]

41 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You, apparently quite intentionally, left out other pertinent parts of their summary:

 

"whether the association between COVID-19 vaccine and autoimmune manifestations is coincidental or causal remains to be elucidated."

 

AND

 

"In fact, we do not aim to disavow the overwhelming benefits of mass COVID-19 vaccination in preventing COVID-19 morbidity and mortality."

Why should the study authors' aims be considered a worthwhile fact to quote here?  I want to know what their actual findings are/were, not what they are/were wanting to find.  But please feel free to believe the facts of your choosing.  I am pro-liberty of belief.

[MrJ2U]

6 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

pro-liberty of belief.

Sounds made up.

 

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

Ah, those rabid anti-vaxxers… At least they bring in a lot of traffic.

And they are still alive.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, AsianAtHeart said:

There can be many potential adverse effects due to autoimmune disease, ranging from rheumatoid arthritis to blood diseases to intestinal disorders.  Some say there are over a hundred types of autoimmune diseases that have been identified.

 

  Consider this article, for a start:

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34957554/

 

One snippet from the article:

 

"Recently, new-onset autoimmune phenomena after COVID-19 vaccination have been reported increasingly (e.g. immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia, autoimmune liver diseases, Guillain-Barré syndrome, IgA nephropathy, rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus). Molecular mimicry, the production of particular autoantibodies and the role of certain vaccine adjuvants seem to be substantial contributors to autoimmune phenomena."

 

A study carried out by Chinese researchers, funded by the Chinese and making no study comparisons to any of the Chinese developed vaccines, the only ones they've included in this study are the mRNA, AZ and Johnson & Johnson and even Sputnik vaccines. 

 

Considering there are plenty of contrary expert views on this I'll pass:

 

Contrary to claims circulating online, there is no such thing as a “vaccine-acquired immunodeficiency syndrome”

 

Fact check: No definitive evidence COVID-19 vaccine causes autoimmune disease

 

No evidence COVID-19 vaccines lead to autoimmune disease

 

There is no evidence to suggest that COVID-19 vaccines can cause autoimmune diseases.

 

Fact Check- Danish study did not conclude that COVID-19 vaccines adversely impact immune systems

 

 

 

[AsianAtHeart]

People tend to see what they look for.  Evidence to one person is pure coincidence to another, and fraud to yet another.  Choose for yourself whom you will believe.

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

A study carried out by Chinese researchers, funded by the Chinese and making no study comparisons to any of the Chinese developed vaccines, the only ones they've included in this study are the mRNA, AZ and Johnson & Johnson and even Sputnik vaccines. 

 

Considering there are plenty of contrary expert views on this I'll pass:

 

Contrary to claims circulating online, there is no such thing as a “vaccine-acquired immunodeficiency syndrome”

 

Fact check: No definitive evidence COVID-19 vaccine causes autoimmune disease

 

No evidence COVID-19 vaccines lead to autoimmune disease

 

There is no evidence to suggest that COVID-19 vaccines can cause autoimmune diseases.

 

Fact Check- Danish study did not conclude that COVID-19 vaccines adversely impact immune systems

 

 

 

All of your links are to news articles, classic places to find subjectivity and opinion in place of evidence-based science.  For example, your first link quotes from social media posts, and appears to solicit the opinions of one doctor, one researcher, and one professor in support of their stance.  No actual studies were cited in the article, apart from one which appeared to have reached an opposite conclusion and which they attempt to discredit by quoting from one of its researchers.

...

I don't have time to analyze all of the news links you posted...just took that first one as an example.

Edited September 1, 2022 by onthedarkside
comments on moderation removed

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, AsianAtHeart said:

All of your links are to news articles, classic places to find subjectivity and opinion in place of evidence-based science.  For example, your first link quotes from social media posts, and appears to solicit the opinions of one doctor, one researcher, and one professor in support of their stance.  No actual studies were cited in the article, apart from one which appeared to have reached an opposite conclusion and which they attempt to discredit by quoting from one of its researchers.

 

If this site supposedly deletes posts expressing medical opinions without "credible sources," your post might be in danger of being deleted.  Personally, I'm in favor of dialogue, and feel that opinions are as legitimate from anecdotal evidence as from a published author, so I am not asking for your post to be removed.  Let people examine the evidence for themselves, and make up their own minds.

 

I don't have time to analyze all of the news links you posted...just took that first one as an example.

That's why there's more than one example so unless you read them all you really have no clue as to the evidence provided and by who

[onthedarkside]

A post commenting on forum moderation policies has been removed, along with several ensuing replies.

 

Per the forum's rules:

 

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[ed strong]

18 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Foolish.

 

I guess you feel that way about Polio, Measles, etc vaccines.

 

Ludicrous. 

Yes i still go for my polio booster every 3 months, have been since i was 6 year old.

 

To compare existing vaccines to what really can only be described as a 'symptom suppressor' at best, is bizarre.

 

Just look at the stats out there in terms of numbers of 'unvaccinated' in the world now.

 

Most of Africa under 20 % jabbed, Why are the hospitals not being over run? Why are are the deaths not high? These are all questions that you you really shoudl consider. The information is out there and it looks positively horrendous and contradictive to what we are actually told.

[ed strong]

 

Most of my friends are in this group i.e had the first 2 shots (18 months ago) when they came out but nothing since. They are considered fully vaccinated for the statistcs however they are being told that they are late for their booster shot, which they are being advised to take. The booster is the same as a vaccine but is called a booster if you have already had 2 but a vaccine if you have had no shots. This literally does not make sense or add up. Perhaps someone can explain it better?

 

btw this hair loss story, probably more to do with stress.

[MrJ2U]

39 minutes ago, ed strong said:

Yes i still go for my polio booster every 3 months, have been since i was 6 year old.

 

To compare existing vaccines to what really can only be described as a 'symptom suppressor' at best, is bizarre.

 

Just look at the stats out there in terms of numbers of 'unvaccinated' in the world now.

 

Most of Africa under 20 % jabbed, Why are the hospitals not being over run? Why are are the deaths not high? These are all questions that you you really shoudl consider. The information is out there and it looks positively horrendous and contradictive to what we are actually told.

COVID comes in waves.  Many African countries were inundated with COVID cases just a few months.  There trying to get up to speed on vaccines.  Unfortunately ignorance plays a role.

 

 

Im more of science guy so getting a vaccine along with almost almost 13 billion people make sense.

 

At the moment you have the choice.  I guess you'll follow the conspiracy theories to base your decisions.

 

Unfortunately. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by MrJ2U

[onthedarkside]

An off-topic post involving a 13-year-old study involving mice that long predated COVID vaccines has been removed.

 

More current findings on the same topic relating to COVID vaccines are here:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaids-fakes-idUSL1N2UM1C7

 

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-do-multiple-boosters-exhaust-our-immune-response/a-60447735

 

[onthedarkside]

A post with false and unsourced COVID vaccine claims has been removed.

 

[Eleftheros]

On 9/1/2022 at 5:29 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

There's a reason many call it "the clot shot."

I'm not sure that's a very helpful term. When anomalous data emerge, as now, it's normal to assume that there may be many factors at play.

 

So, when the US Society of Actuaries, as sober and dull group of number crunchers as you could hope to meet, reported overall excess mortality in the 25-54 age group to be +83% in Q3 2021, they did not attribute it to anything - well, that's not really their job. You can check the figures in the SOA Research Institute's August 22 report.

 

Excess mortality is remaining stubbornly high in many countries, and commentators have suggested several causes - climate change, snoring, smoking, pregnancy, new atmospheric chemicals, the rise of diseases that went away during Covid, or the lack of treatment of other serious diseases because of lockdowns, Covid itself, and perhaps the vaccines.

 

What is odd, though, is the extreme reluctance of Governments to open investigations into this phenomenon.

 

After all, if your working-age population is dying at such a rate, is that not something which warrants closer scrutiny?

 

Apparently not.

[AsianAtHeart]

2 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I'm not sure that's a very helpful term. When anomalous data emerge, as now, it's normal to assume that there may be many factors at play.

 

So, when the US Society of Actuaries, as sober and dull group of number crunchers as you could hope to meet, reported overall excess mortality in the 25-54 age group to be +83% in Q3 2021, they did not attribute it to anything - well, that's not really their job. You can check the figures in the SOA Research Institute's August 22 report.

 

Excess mortality is remaining stubbornly high in many countries, and commentators have suggested several causes - climate change, snoring, smoking, pregnancy, new atmospheric chemicals, the rise of diseases that went away during Covid, or the lack of treatment of other serious diseases because of lockdowns, Covid itself, and perhaps the vaccines.

 

What is odd, though, is the extreme reluctance of Governments to open investigations into this phenomenon.

 

After all, if your working-age population is dying at such a rate, is that not something which warrants closer scrutiny?

 

Apparently not.

It has been said that even a 20% rise in mortality would have been a source of panic, reported in all the news venues, as near as a decade ago.  That's a very large increase.  Where I am, we have noticed an average of at least two or three funerals per month, just on our street (we get to live with the funeral music virtually all the time, because each funeral goes for several days to a week).  Pre-covid days, this would have been rather extraordinary.  Sure, you'd get a funeral once in awhile--but several a month?  From the pictures attached to the biers as they drive past the house we can see that they're not all elderly.  One of the most lamented cases was that of a local teacher.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the couple of prior posts:

 

"COVID-19 accounted for one in eight US deaths from March 2020 to October 2021 and was the third leading cause of death, estimates a study published yesterday in JAMA Internal Medicine.

...

Over the entire study period, the leading causes of death were heart disease (20.1%), cancer (17.5%), COVID-19 (12.2%), accidents (6.2%), and stroke (4.7%)."

...

"Relative to 2020, in 2021, COVID-19 rose from the fifth (6,100 deaths) to the second (13,000) leading cause of death among people 35 to 44 years old and took the fourth-leading spot among those 25 to 34 years (5,000) and 15 to 24 (1,100).

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/07/1-8-us-deaths-during-pandemic-ascribed-covid-19

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Eleftheros]

5 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

It has been said that even a 20% rise in mortality would have been a source of panic, reported in all the news venues, as near as a decade ago.  That's a very large increase.  Where I am, we have noticed an average of at least two or three funerals per month, just on our street (we get to live with the funeral music virtually all the time, because each funeral goes for several days to a week).  Pre-covid days, this would have been rather extraordinary.  Sure, you'd get a funeral once in awhile--but several a month?  From the pictures attached to the biers as they drive past the house we can see that they're not all elderly.  One of the most lamented cases was that of a local teacher.

 

Yep. You'd think that some government somewhere would be interested in looking into this, but they all seem very shy to attempt it. The German mortality data is even more stark than the US data, but no action.

 

That doesn't lead to any definite conclusion, but it sure as hell doesn't inspire confidence in the transparency of governments, or their supposed claim to have their citizens' health and well-being at the core of their mission.

[onthedarkside]

A diversionary off-topic post, suggesting a debunked conspiracy theory, has been removed along with an ensuing reply.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 9/2/2022 at 1:36 PM, Eleftheros said:

So, when the US Society of Actuaries, as sober and dull group of number crunchers as you could hope to meet, reported overall excess mortality in the 25-54 age group to be +83% in Q3 2021, they did not attribute it to anything - well, that's not really their job. You can check the figures in the SOA Research Institute's August 22 report.

I've read through that report and I don't see anything in it that shows excess mortality at +83% for the 25-54 age group.

 

I did find a Reuters Fact Check that documents false claims circulating on social media about an 84% rise in excess mortality for 25-44 year-olds, though. Is that related to what you're claiming?

 

Quote

CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) told Reuters via email that the provisional data on CDC’s WONDER database (wonder.cdc.gov/) does not show that the percent increase since 2019 reaches 84% in any month for the 25-44 age group.

Fact Check-No evidence that people aged 25-44 experienced an 84% increase in excess mortality