Building Help - Chiang Mai

[russ@sarapee]

Does anybody know a good company that does home renovation / building in C Mai. Some experiences would also help.

[EDAB]

Hello there, my name is Shaun and i'm a director of Euro Design and Build, a building company in Chiang Mai. With my business partner Graeme we started up at the end of 2004. In this time we have learnt to concentrate on building for Farang only and are currently in the middle of two projects, one a big house renovation in Sarapee and a new house/pool on the Samong loop off the Hang Dong road. We advertise in the Good Morning Chiang Mai magazine and have a web-site (which needs updating) at www.euro-designandbuild.com. If you wish to call my number is 050405401. Cheers for now Shaun....

[lopburi3]

we started up at the end of 2004.

We can only hope that you measure distance better than you do time.

[EDAB]

OOps 2002!!! It's the stress.

[Ajarn]

OOps 2002!!! It's the stress.

Stress? In Thailand?

[cutethaigirl]

building for Farang only

Do you mean Non Thais?

Suggest you find the meaning of the word you are using there and alter it accordingly if you want customers to respect you:-)

Try this one if you need to differentiate Than Chat - somewhat more polite.

Out of interest why do you not want to build for Thais?

[Ajarn]

Out of interest why do you not want to build for Thais? 

What Thai would choose to pay the farang price?

[chanchao]

> If you wish to call my number is 050405401

Strange.. wrong number? Oh well, I'll just give the project for the new palace I'm building to another builder.

It seems the stress levels in this business are seriously high! :-)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[ProThaiExpat]

I have been impressed with Home Pro's quality and guarantee policy in the past and was delighted to hear they have home imporvemnt and installation services likewise guarantee.

Grabbed the manager and in her presence ordered a quality screen door to be measured and installed in my home. It has been a week and no contact. Will update when I hear something, if ever.

Hopefully, Home Pro is not in the "promise business" like many in Thailand, begining with the top man in government.

[john b good]

There are a great number of Thais/Thai companies who build/renovate houses.

Admittedly many of them are "mickey mouse" operators but there are some who are quite competent.

House building is not a science (otherwise there would be no Thais involved) but it's difficult to understand why farangs get into the business here.

By that I mean if a person is halfway decent (read competent) in what he does why work for a pittance in Thailand or, do you charge your time at farang rates. If so you won't be getting a lot of business from Thais (or farangs who know their way around)

???....

As for Home Pro..... Their arrival n the market was definately a move forward but it's still Thailand so don't hold you're breath on them adopting western levels of service. That said, whenever I have had occasion to visit Home Pro their service has been of a reasonable standard. Always very helpful. TIT

[khunphilip]

The best way to house repairs is use of the local knowledge but first you have to find a local you can trust I was lucky enough to have a fench guy living near by who knew of a good local firm and have been getting good quality work so maybe they good help you beware of these mickley mouse set ups calling theirselfs building companys that only work for farangs

F.T.P

[sabaijai]

> If you wish to call my number is 050405401

Strange..  wrong number?  Oh well, I'll just give the project for the new palace I'm building to another builder. 

It seems the stress levels in this business are seriously high! :-)

Cheers,

Chanchao

It's a legit number, probably assigned for one of the newer DTAC cards -- my wife has a similar cell number.

Edited July 8, 2004 by sabaijai

[sabaijai]

building for Farang only

Do you mean Non Thais?

Suggest you find the meaning of the word you are using there and alter it accordingly if you want customers to respect you:-)

Try this one if you need to differentiate Than Chat - somewhat more polite.

Out of interest why do you not want to build for Thais?

or Tang Chat? [taang chaat]

Sounds like the poor guy is just trying to cater to a niche market, nothing wrong with that. I know a Chinese builder in Melbourne whose clientele are for the most part overseas Chinese, and a Japanese real estate agent in Hawaii who works exclusively with Japanese buyers.

[EDAB]

I've noted all of the coments posted and would like to make the following points:

1) The phone number given is correct, is always on and close to hand.

2) Using the word "Farang" was not meant to cause offence. I am one. After living here for a few years it's a word i hear to describe us "Westerners" on a daily basis and i for one am not offended by it at all.

3) Reason for working only for Farang customers? Simple really, we offer Western standard building work and have found that there is a demand for it from Western customers.

4) I agree, as in any country anywhere there are going to be the "cowboy builders" amongst us. Also there are decent, hard working lads living in a foreign land paying their taxes and VAT and trying to earn a crust by doing a professional job. Mickey Mouse is not in this house!!

At the end of the day the guy wanted a building company in Chiang Mai so i offered our services. I thought that was what this forum is all about?

( i must remember to check my typing though hey?)

[Ajarn]

Question: How does a farang build houses here legally?

1 - 39 Restricted Occupations

1. Labor

2. Work in agriculture, fishery, forestry

3. Masonry, carpentry or other construction work

4. Woodcarving

5. Driving motor or non-motor vehicles

6. Shop attendant

7. Auctioneering

8. Accounting

9. Gem cutting

10. Hair cutting

11. Hand weaving

12. Mat weaving

13. Paper manufacturing

14. Lacquer ware manufacturing

15. Thai music instrument manufacturing

16. Nielloware manufacturing

17. Goldsmith

18. Bronze ware manufacturing

19. Thai doll making

20. Mattress manufacturing

21. Alms bowl manufacturing

22. Manual silk product making

23. Buddha image making

24. Knife manufacturing

25. Umbrella fabrication

26. Shoemaking

27. Hat making

28. Brokerage

29. Dressmaking

30. Pottery

31. Cigarette rolling

32. Legal service

33. Clerical work

34. Silk weaving

35. Thai character type-setting

36. Hawking

37. Tourist guide

38. Architectural

39. Civil engineering

[cutethaigirl]

Re working legally.

I think a Westerner can not do all of the jobs you list for sure but can be a Director of a Company that employs Thais to do the work?

[ThaiGirlTeen]

There are a great number of Thais/Thai companies who build/renovate houses.

Admittedly many of them are "mickey mouse" operators but there are some who are quite competent.

So it's pretty much on Par with the cowboy builders in UK then?

[KevinN]

I think that it is time that some farang came here and started a business and would teach the Thai how to do things,,an American brick layer will lay 40+ block per hour and each block is finish when the throws the next one,the wall can be left as is, painted or stucco'd ,,A thai will throw 50 blocks a day and they will be at odd angles,partly filled to over filled and the wall will have to have 2 inches of stucco to make it look OK.If it don't fall before the stucco is on.

And pobly the reason he said he builds for farang is because they will pay for good workmanship and a thai don't know good workmanship from a chicken fight.

[ThaiGirlTeen]

I think that it is time that some farang came here and started a business and would teach the Thai how to do things,,an American brick layer will lay 40+ block per hour and each block is finish when the throws the next one,the wall can be left as is, painted or stucco'd ,,A thai will throw 50 blocks a day and they will be at odd angles,partly filled to over filled and the wall will have to have 2 inches of stucco to make it look OK.If it don't fall before the stucco is on.

And pobly the reason he said he builds for farang is because they will pay for good workmanship and a thai don't know good workmanship from a chicken fight.

Yea, farangs are so wonderful, i should kiss the ground they walk on.

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

[cutethaigirl]

Yea, farangs are so wonderful, i should kiss the ground they walk on.

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

Buy you are not Thai so how can you do that?

Comparing Thai and foreign building techniques is pretty irelevant.

Good and bad with both.

Be interesting to see the American exampled above after a few hours in 40 degrees of high humidity heat

[Kringle]

To all Thai builders: My roof still leaks, my parquet floor is popping all over the place and my doors wouldn't keep out a big snake much likely a ghecko. I think my screens are more square than my windows and I when I installed my curtains, you can see how the wall is not square at all. It's like they put a slope on the wall for the water to run off sideways.

I grew up in Louisiana where in the summer the heat gets up to over a hundred degrees F. and the humidity is 100% (and it's not raining). This is very common and don't think Thailand has the only workers that can do a job in this kind of environment. I have to say that I see a lot of Thais that could outlast me on a jobsite but then I'm not as young as I used to be and all the mechanic work and odd motorcycle wrecks have taken their toll. I have done a lot of different jobs over the years and am by no means an expert in all but I can at least build a door or window frame square and building construction was not my main line of work. The Thais build the way they were taught (badly) and keep doing the same job year after year.

If the jobs not code, just pay someone and it's code. If Thais would stop excepting poor quality work and stop the contractors from paying bribes (over 3,000 buildings unsafe) then you might see some decent work done. People come here and teach the Thais how to do something and then the Thais say "piss off" we don't want you anymore.

I would be very happy to find a Thai to do the work for me but find it very difficult to find quality craftsmanship or even safe (electrical) work supplied.

Just my 2 baht worth, not that it's going to make a diff.

[cutethaigirl]

Just my 2 baht worth, not that it's going to make a diff. 

Will do if people start to not accept bad workmanship from any nationality of professional in any trade.

Thais do not like to criticise which must make being a bad worker an easy job

[KevinN]

I think that it is time that some farang came here and started a business and would teach the Thai how to do things,,an American brick layer will lay 40+ block per hour and each block is finish when the throws the next one,the wall can be left as is, painted or stucco'd ,,A thai will throw 50 blocks a day and they will be at odd angles,partly filled to over filled and the wall will have to have 2 inches of stucco to make it look OK.If it don't fall before the stucco is on.

And pobly the reason he said he  builds for farang is because they will pay for good workmanship and a thai don't know good workmanship from a chicken fight.

Yea, farangs are so wonderful, i should kiss the ground they walk on.

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

That is perfectly all right,,but just try to do better and someone will notice.I had 40 Thais working for me at Basrah Iraq and they did a good job for me,but then every weld was xrayed and you were only allowed a few bad welds and then you went home,so was an incentive to do good work,but most will not do any more than it takes to get by.in other words,the best man on the job needn't be much better than the worst to keep the job.

CuteThaiGirl,,Be interesting to see the American exampled above after a few hours in 40 degrees of high humidity heat rolleyes.

I have worked daily in more than 40c heat,and still had to do a good job.Most engine rooms are a good deal hotter than that,the saudi desert is also hotter and good welds are a must if you want to work there.The pipe line at moses Lake Wa. was daily over 112f. The Nevada test sight was well above that,but dryer so it hurt you just as bad, There are a number of places on the earth that men must do good work and suffer very high and very low temps, so weather being adverse is no excuse for poor workmanship.

My new home is fairly plumb as far as square and straight verticles,,but the floods are not plumb,the kitchen is 4 cm low in one corner,the plumbing in the floors didn't come out where it was supposed to be and all the walls are cracking more daily,the pours were all a different slump so nothing finished the same. and the wiring is a mess that I have just about got straightened out myself.

[Ajarn]

Re working legally.

I think a Westerner can not do all of the jobs you list for sure but can be a Director of a Company that employs Thais to do the work?

Here is a more complete list from a Thai police website

http://www.imm3.police.go.th/eng/workprohibited.htm

"30. Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plans, estimating, construction directing or advising".

This seems to me to suggest that the farang has no place in the building business in Thailand.... I mean, what can these guys do if it can't include doing any kind of manual work themselves, including advising and directing construction?

The List....

Manual work.

Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishing excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision.

Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works.

Woodcarving.

Driving a mechanically propelled carrier or driving a non-mechanically propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting.

Shop attending.

Auction

Supervising, auditing or giving services in accounting excluding internal auditing on occasions.

Cutting or polishing jewellery.

Haircutting, hairdressing or beauty treatment.

Cloth weaving by hand.

Weaving of mats or making products from reeds, rattan, hemp, straw or bamboo.

Making of Sa paper by hand.

Lacquerware making.

Making of Thai musical instruments.

Nielloware making.

Making of products from gold, silver or gold-copper alloy.

Bronzeware making.

Making of Thai dolls.

Making of mattresses or quilt blankets.

Alms bowl casting.

Making of silk products by hand.

Casting of Buddha images.

Knife making.

Making of paper or cloth umbrellas.

Shoemaking.

Hat making.

Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business.

Engineering work in a civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work.

Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plans, estimating, construction directing or advising.

Garment making.

Pottery or ceramic ware making.

Cigarette making by hand.

Guide or conducting sightseeing tours.

Street vending.

Typesetting of Thai characters by hand.

Drawing and twisting silk thread by hand.

Office or secretarial work.

Legal or lawsuit services.

[too true]

Fair enough, Thai workmanship can sometimes be compared to monkeys let loose with handtools, but let's be fair and point out both sides - how hard would you work if you were being paid 150 baht a day??? Would you really be focused on detail? How many of us could even live on 150 baht a day? So, really, you get what you pay for. My husband (Thai) was trained to work in house contruction in New Zealand and knows how much higher western standards are. He's currently working on a project for a non-Thai here in Chiang Mai, mostly as a contractor, but he's trying to make sure that the guys he hires to do the work actually do it. So, Thais trained overseas are quite capable of understanding and meeting western standards. Do it right or don't bloody do it at all.

Ciao boys.

[splitlid]

used to have a saying on our sites.

"do it nice or do it twice"

[adjan jb]

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

Hi Thaigirlteen,

Will you apologize for using MY avatar ?

[Ajarn]

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come  up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

Hi Thaigirlteen,

Will you apologize for using MY avatar ?

I was wondering whose face that was!

[KevinN]

Fair enough, Thai workmanship can sometimes be compared to monkeys let loose with handtools, but let's be fair and point out both sides - how hard would you work if you were being paid 150 baht a day???  Would you really be focused on detail? How many of us could even live on 150 baht a day?  So, really, you get what you pay for.  My husband (Thai) was trained to work in house contruction in New Zealand and knows how much higher western standards are.  He's currently working on a project for a non-Thai here in Chiang Mai, mostly as a contractor, but he's trying to make sure that the guys he hires to do the work actually do it. So, Thais trained overseas are quite capable of understanding and meeting western standards.  Do it right or don't bloody do it at all. 

Ciao boys.

It makes no diff. what you pay,They come and ask for XX a day,thats what they ask for and thats what they get,If you are not satisfied with the wages,do not take the job,,doing shitty work does not make the take home any more,and better grade of work might bring more money or for sure will guarentee a job for longer time.

When we built our house,the lowest was payed 150 a day, and all she did was stand around with her thumb in her ass and the masons were payed 250 and they worked only part of the day and shot the shit the rest of the time.and did a poor grade of work at best.

[too true]

A Thai acquaintance of mine who owns a building company flat out told me:

If you order a house for 5 million baht, you'll get a house worth 3 million baht. If you order a house for 1 million baht, you'll get a house worth a half million. Thai builders cut corners everywhere. If you want to them buy the grade of iron that has been specified in the plans for the house, you actually have to go with them when they buy it, or supply it yourself.

And this guy's company's done a lot of the work on the canal up towards the university, out Hang Dong way. Frightening, really. But when we had our office redone, the guys were brilliant. They worked and did good work. Absolutely no complaints. Maybe that's because we knew them all personally.

Here's a question for those of you who have had personal experiences with bad Thai building: Did you or anyone else tell the guys to get off their asses and work? I know people who have dragged out a job because they were being paid by the hour and wanted their salary to go on for as long as possible, but I'd think a builder wouldn't want to have to pay all those guys and girls to stand around with their thumbs up their bums.

No rhyme or reason to some of these Thai ways. Me, I have more complaints about Thai kindergartens than Thai building, but don't suppose there's a forum in Chiang Mai for that, or enough women to contribute.