UK Will and Thai Property

[Holly Huntaway]

Any information or or experience would be appreciated with regards to the following, before I go down any legal channels?

1. Dad married a Thai National in Thailand in 2012, 32 years his junior. 

2. They both spend their time equally in the UK/Thailand.

3. Dad recently diagnosed with a terminal illness.

4. Dad purchased properties during their marriage consisting of 2 condos, a block of 12 one room apartments, their main residence when in Thailand and a rice paddy field for her family to farm (in wife’s name).

5. He is adamant that the properties are in his name (apart from the paddy field). Which does not tally with my research to date!

6. UK will written in 2010 bequeathing ALL whatever/wherever assets to me upon his death, Will confirmed as still legally standing.

7. He wants (verbally) all Thai assets to be given to his wife (I have no issues with that and respect his decision).

8. He has NO Thai will and will be unable to travel to Thailand to make one.

9. I am unsure if he now has the mental capacity (due to a few incidents that have occurred) to rewrite his UK Will to update ALL Thai assets to go to wife.

 

Not sure if I should get him to update his UK will regardless.  What really is the point as obviously ALL assets will be in her name anyway.  Do I just assume legally in Thailand it will go to her anyway and not mention Thai properties to avoid getting totally stung by legal fees this end by UK lawyers? Really at a loss with best way forward so she gets what she wants and I keep our family home?  I no longer have any other siblings nor my own children. She has two children by two previous Thai marriages and obviously is responsible (via dad) in supporting her parents and extended family. Not certain if these two factors are relevant?

 

I am trying to sort out all of his affairs before he gets really Ill, so when he does die I can grieve his death and not deal with trying to get to grips with the state of his affairs.  Just to add, Thai wife has limited English (understands more than she can speak) and does not read English.

 

If you have gotten this far, thank you!

 

 

[Peterw42]

Not sure if you are aware, but foreigners can only own condominiums in Thailand, 100% in their name. Any other properties, your father doesn't own, 100% in his name. (even the 2 condos, may be in wifes name or a company name). I think there is a good chance most, or all, the Thai properties already belong to wife,

 

I think you are on the right track by not mentioning the Thai properties to UK solicitors, or updating his will, they will of course want to chase them up, probate etc etc. It would cost a fortune and probably never get resolved.

Unless you turn up and make a claim on Thai assets,  the assets will go to his wife.

[prakhonchai nick]

Wouldlike to PM you, but this seems to be disabled. Please contact me -I can help

 

Basically your dad married AFTER he made his Will. As such the Will is null and void. With no new Will his UK assets go automatically to his wife. Here in Thailand, with no Will, if he has any assets in his name, then if he dies intestate (no Will) they are legally split 50/50 between his wife and his children.

If that suits, then no need to make a new Will.

[Holly Huntaway]

The UK will was checked over last week by a Solicitor last week and was confirmed as still legally standing. As his wife is domiciled and technically still a resident of Thailand she will not entitled to any assets held in the UK. Unless she wishes to attest it. If that is the case, I could claim 50% of the properties in Thailand which I would not want to do.

[OneMoreFarang]

Does it really matter what anybody writes in this forum?

You clearly need an expert who knows UK and Thai law.

[Holly Huntaway]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Does it really matter what anybody writes in this forum?

You clearly need an expert who knows UK and Thai law.

“Any information or or experience would be appreciated with regards to the following, before I go down any legal channels?”

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Holly Huntaway said:

“Any information or or experience would be appreciated with regards to the following, before I go down any legal channels?”

Ok, just be aware that this forum is not known for precise and accurate information.

You might get some good information. But you also might get bad information which looks like good information.

Believe me, it's not easy here, I am long enough in this club...

 

[hotandsticky]

26 minutes ago, Holly Huntaway said:

The UK will was checked over last week by a Solicitor last week and was confirmed as still legally standing. As his wife is domiciled and technically still a resident of Thailand she will not entitled to any assets held in the UK. Unless she wishes to attest it. If that is the case, I could claim 50% of the properties in Thailand which I would not want to do.

Now the rubbish starts.

 

Did you pay for that advice.

 

I confirm that the original Will became invalid upon your father's marriage (assuming it was legally registered at a local amphur in Thailand. That marriage is legal everywhere in the world and any existing Wills are revoked.

 

https://www.whnsolicitors.co.uk/newsroom/family/what-happens-to-my-will-if-i-get-married-or-divorced/#:~:text=Does getting married invalidate my,your assets will be divided.

[hotandsticky]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, just be aware that this forum is not known for precise and accurate information.

You might get some good information. But you also might get bad information which looks like good information.

Believe me, it's not easy here, I am long enough in this club...

 

The advice on here so far has been better than the paid for advice from UK solicitors!  ????

[hotandsticky]

29 minutes ago, Holly Huntaway said:

The UK will was checked over last week by a Solicitor last week and was confirmed as still legally standing. As his wife is domiciled and technically still a resident of Thailand she will not entitled to any assets held in the UK. Unless she wishes to attest it. If that is the case, I could claim 50% of the properties in Thailand which I would not want to do.

At the moment she is entitled to 100% of the UK assets and 50% of the Thai assets (that are not already in her name)......the Rules of Intestacy apply in each country.

 

I think that you are very fortunate to have raised these matters now whilst something can still be done to protect your father's wishes (and your inheritance)

[Holly Huntaway]

4 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Now the rubbish starts.

 

Did you pay for that advice.

 

I confirm that the original Will became invalid upon your father's marriage (assuming it was legally registered at a local amphur in Thailand. That marriage is legal everywhere in the world and any existing Wills are revoked.

 

https://www.whnsolicitors.co.uk/newsroom/family/what-happens-to-my-will-if-i-get-married-or-divorced/#:~:text=Does getting married invalidate my,your assets will be divided.

No I didn’t. But thanks for pointing me in the right direction with regards to getting it updated. ????

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, Holly Huntaway said:

No I didn’t. But thanks for pointing me in the right direction with regards to getting it updated. ????

 

 

You are very  welcome. A simple Thai Will should see your father's wishes achieved.

[prakhonchai nick]

43 minutes ago, Holly Huntaway said:

The UK will was checked over last week by a Solicitor last week and was confirmed as still legally standing. As his wife is domiciled and technically still a resident of Thailand she will not entitled to any assets held in the UK. Unless she wishes to attest it. If that is the case, I could claim 50% of the properties in Thailand which I would not want to do.

Sorry Holly, but I disagree totally with the UK Solicitor. I have had years of experience here in Thailand helping Thai widows of British expats obtain their just dues. Hot and Sticky is correct with every point he made.

 

UK law stipulates that a will drawn up prior to marriage is null and void upon marriage, UNLESS it was drawn up just prior to and specifically in anticipation of that marriage.

 

With no current legal Will, the Thai wife inherits your Fathers UK assets by virtue of the UK intestacy rules, and shares any Thai assets with you. If you wish to ensure the wife inherits all Thai assets, should there be any, then a simple Thai Will is required, which can be drawn up online, and sent to you for your father to sign.

[donx]

9 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

With no current legal Will, the Thai wife inherits your Fathers UK assets by virtue of the UK intestacy rules, and shares any Thai assets with you. If you wish to ensure the wife inherits all Thai assets, should there be any, then a simple Thai Will is required, which can be drawn up online, and sent to you for your father to sign.

You mention that a simple Thai Will can be drawn up so that the wife inherits all Thai assets. What about the UK assets? Can those be directed to the daughter using the same Thai Will?

[prakhonchai nick]

18 minutes ago, donx said:

You mention that a simple Thai Will can be drawn up so that the wife inherits all Thai assets. What about the UK assets? Can those be directed to the daughter using the same Thai Will?

If Wills are required, then separate Wills for the UK and Thailand are required. The Wife automatically inherits in the UK, by virtue of intestacy,  If there are any assets in Thailand (ie bank account, motor vehicles condo) in Fathers name, then a Will would be required to ensure the wife receives all and does not share with daughter.  Foreigners  are not able to own land in Thailand, despite the father's attestations. They can technically own buildings/houses on land owned by a Thai, but that is very unusual.

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, donx said:

You mention that a simple Thai Will can be drawn up so that the wife inherits all Thai assets. What about the UK assets? Can those be directed to the daughter using the same Thai Will?

 

IMO, and whilst that is legally possible, a separate Will would be better. For the minimal cost involved it means that the UK assets can be dealt with under UK Probate law in the UK for the benefit of the UK beneficiary and the Thai assets under Thai probate in Thailand for the benefit of the Thai beneficiary.

 

Cleaner, neater and probably quicker and cheaper in the long run.

 

Simply cross refer the two Wills; mine states that I have a separate Thai Will covering the few assets that own in that country.

 

(My response would have been the same had you suggested incorporating the Thai assets into the UK Will).

[donx]

4 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

If Wills are required, then separate Wills for the UK and Thailand are required. The Wife automatically inherits in the UK, by virtue of intestacy, which is what both father and daughter want. If there are any assets in Thailand (ie bank account, motor vehicles condo) in Fathers name, then a Will would be required to ensure the wife receives all and does not share with daughter.  Foreigners  are not able to own land in Thailand, despite the father's attestations. They can technically own buildings/houses on land owned by a Thai, but that is very unusual.

My understanding is that the daughter wants all UK assets to go to her and all Thai assets to go to the wife. I could be wrong, but that is how I read one of her response posts.

[prakhonchai nick]

4 minutes ago, donx said:

My understanding is that the daughter wants all UK assets to go to her and all Thai assets to go to the wife. I could be wrong, but that is how I read one of her response posts.

You are correct donx, and I have amended my earlier post . The daughter is indeed seeking the UK assets, and that was how the original, now invalid Will was worded.  At present, if and when the Father dies, his UK assets go to his Wife via intestacy. If the Father wants his UK assets to go to his daughter, as was his original intention prior to marriage, then he MUST make a new Will.  He must also make a Thai Will to ensure all assets in Thailand go to his wife and are not shared with the daughter

 

In the event that the Father should die before a new UK Will can be drawn up, I would imagine the daughter (Holly) would have a valid liability claim against the solicitor who advised the original Will was still legally standing..

[In Full Agreement]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Does it really matter what anybody writes in this forum?

You clearly need an expert who knows UK and Thai law.

Thank you!!

[BostonJoe]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:46 PM, Holly Huntaway said:

“Any information or or experience would be appreciated with regards to the following, before I go down any legal channels?”

I have to say onemorefarang gave you the best advice you'll  find 

[hotandsticky]

10 minutes ago, BostonJoe said:

I have to say onemorefarang gave you the best advice you'll  find 

 

 

Which shows how little you know.

 

Good information and experience (which probably saved her inheritance) was provided.

[BostonJoe]

Smart enough to know about free legal advice  

[Holly Huntaway]

***UPDATE*** Dad organised with Solicitor to update Will, specifically stating that Wife not to have UK assets (with a supporting letter saying he had gifted properties to her which create rental income for her in Thailand). Wife totally lost it with Dad  with Dad ringing me up very upset.  Will yet again rewritten this week with her receiving ALL assets in UK and Thailand.  
Feeling confused, upset and very let down by my Dad at present.  His explanation was that she needs a house to live in when she gets her Citizenship.  So trying to keep a stiff upper lip to support him through illness without wanting to throttling him at the same time!

 

If you are in a situation where you have a new wife and children from a previous marriage PLEASE speak to ALL family members with regards to inheritance before sickness/old age takes over so they can get used to the idea beforehand of who gets what and your reasoning behind it.  AND make sure those Wills are up to date.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to comment positive or negative as it enabled me to research and wrap my head around a few things.

[prakhonchai nick]

Sorry to hear of the new probems with the Thai Wife. Doesn't she have enough properties in Thailand to live in? Your Dad says she needs the UK house to live in after obtaining citizenship.  Has that been applied for.? If not living permanently in the UK, unlikely it will be granted.  Not something that is granted overnight! Even widows I have helped here in Thailand who had citizenship, have no desire to live in the UK after the death of their husbands.

[Liverpool Lou]

39 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Doesn't she have enough properties in Thailand to live in?

Irrelevant if the OP's father wants his wife to have everything.

[prakhonchai nick]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Irrelevant if the OP's father wants his wife to have everything.

The point was that originally he didn't want the wife to have the UK assets. After the wife raisied a stink he is giving her the UK house.  One of the conditions of making/remaking a Will is that the the person is of sound mind. One must assume the solicitor is satisfied he is.  Sorry for the daughter who it seems will end up with nothing.

[Delight]

 You will have to organize probate  in the UK for UK assets.

Whatever his Will states -then that will happen.

You just need a  UK  probate lawyer -plus the Will and the death certificate. Maybe more.

 

As far as Thailand is concerned -then again probate is required.

The  Thai probate department will -I suspect -decide that his Thai wife gets the lot.

You state that you are happy with this arrangement.

For her to pursue probate in Thailand -then I suspect -that  a   2nd original  death certificate is required.

Suggest that you select a UK based  Probate Lawyer-ASAP. That person could advise you on this possibility. 

 

For certain a UK death certificate -with an official translation is essential.

Suggest that you speak to a Thai Consulate for advice on the official translation  point.

Without this  death certificate and official translation -then his wife will end up empty handed.

That is  very bad situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thiscannotberight]

On 10/22/2022 at 7:31 AM, Holly Huntaway said:

***UPDATE*** Dad organised with Solicitor to update Will, specifically stating that Wife not to have UK assets (with a supporting letter saying he had gifted properties to her which create rental income for her in Thailand). Wife totally lost it with Dad  with Dad ringing me up very upset.  Will yet again rewritten this week with her receiving ALL assets in UK and Thailand.  
Feeling confused, upset and very let down by my Dad at present.  His explanation was that she needs a house to live in when she gets her Citizenship.  So trying to keep a stiff upper lip to support him through illness without wanting to throttling him at the same time!

 

If you are in a situation where you have a new wife and children from a previous marriage PLEASE speak to ALL family members with regards to inheritance before sickness/old age takes over so they can get used to the idea beforehand of who gets what and your reasoning behind it.  AND make sure those Wills are up to date.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to comment positive or negative as it enabled me to research and wrap my head around a few things.

 

Mine has done the same.

 

He thought the will stood and now he's passed it seems there is nothing we can do.

40 years my parents had together and with less than 10 months she now inherits everything, I'm not fussed about my gift it was so small but the grandchildren who were the main benefactors now end with nothing.

The law appears to be on her side, what an absolute joke!