New Toyota Legender

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, PJ71 said:

The Fortuner is too big but you 'love' the Raptor.....hmmm

 

No idea why so many people have the Raptor, i had a wildtrack before when i was building my house, sold it as soon as i didn't need it anymore - horrible.

For me, the tuna has too much unusable passenger/ cargo space in the back whereas a truck bed is much lower profile and eminently more usable for transporting different types of goods than is possible to carry in the tuna. Perhaps if we had a large family I might feel different but most of the time it's just my wife and myself. Plus there's a trade off, if the design is so good that you love it to death, you'll relax a little on the size issue, at least I will.

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

The Fortuner is too big but you 'love' the Raptor.....hmmm

 

No idea why so many people have the Raptor, i had a wildtrack before when i was building my house, sold it as soon as i didn't need it anymore - horrible.

don't be comparing that old 2.0 <deleted> Raptor to the new one..... night and day difference between the two.

[PJ71]

Just now, Ralf001 said:

don't be comparing that old 2.0 <deleted> Raptor to the new one..... night and day difference between the two.

yeah, it's even bigger - lol.

[Ralf001]

38 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

yeah, it's even bigger - lol.

The structure of the cabin is carry over.

 

Wider track gives the illusion of being bigger.

[Toolong]

Kind of off-topic and many will just scratched their heads wondering what the hell I'm talking about, but hey, just ignore me!

So......got a pet peeve:

 

I'm fascinated by car design. Some designs give me immense pleasure to look at (ie, 60s/70s American). Why have manufacturers become inclined to make vehicle design so heavy on the 'aggressive' look? 

Bugs the hell out of me to look in my mirror and see a vehicle behind me (usually way too close!) looking like the vehicular equivalent of Mike Tyson; as if it wants to intimidate me and everyone else.

The Fortuners until now haven't been too bad in that regard, but just seen the video someone attached here of future model and looks like the front end design is getting meaner and 'shouty-er'!

 

Like I said, just ignore me! ????

 

 

[Chongalulu]

On 10/18/2022 at 12:52 PM, Boomer6969 said:

Sure you like it, as you are obviously used to trucks. I chose the CRV as had never driven trucks and it had  the handling of a sedan, and could cope with the 8 inches deep potholes we have here. I get 13k/Liter from the 2.4 engine, but  E20 not Diesel.

The CRV is basically a good SUV ruined by the ancient technology engines HONDA dump on the Thai market and which have been discontinued in western markets for several years. I test drove a CRV hybrid 5+ years ago in U.K.and still not available here! That’s a dealbreaker in my book .

13 kilometres liter on a fuel 30% more expensive than diesel make its cost per kilometer considerably more expensive than the 16 kilometres litre I get from my 3 litre diesel .

I believe they’ll have to offer the way superior hybrid in next years model 

[Chongalulu]

7 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Yes, I have been in trucks now for 12 years.

 

I did have a Fortuner 14 years ago but this is streets ahead of that car.

Well yes,you’d expect a vehicle to be 'streets ahead' of one designed 14 years ago ! You should be using the bar of competing contemporary vehicles as your benchmark. 
Trucks and the Fortuner type SUVs on which they are based still use an unsophisticated ladder chassis and lack the IRS of a more sophisticated SUV like the Honda CRV which will consequently have much better handling and  ride . Did you even know which yours has ? 

[Scouse123]

11 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

Well yes,you’d expect a vehicle to be 'streets ahead' of one designed 14 years ago ! You should be using the bar of competing contemporary vehicles as your benchmark. 
Trucks and the Fortuner type SUVs on which they are based still use an unsophisticated ladder chassis and lack the IRS of a more sophisticated SUV like the Honda CRV which will consequently have much better handling and  ride . Did you even know which yours has ? 

I'll tell you what I know. I traded in a 4x4 2 8i Toyota Truck with less than 30,000Km.

 

I bought the Legender. I am happy.

 

I don't spend my days going through the " thread to the needle " on cars.

 

I made a comment, its a happy purchase.

 

Thats it, thats all

 

Ask me one on hotels, bars and discotheques and I can answer you with what I have exoert knowledge of.

[Boomer6969]

51 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

The CRV is basically a good SUV ruined by the ancient technology engines HONDA dump on the Thai market and which have been discontinued in western markets for several years. I test drove a CRV hybrid 5+ years ago in U.K.and still not available here! That’s a dealbreaker in my book .

13 kilometres liter on a fuel 30% more expensive than diesel make its cost per kilometer considerably more expensive than the 16 kilometres litre I get from my 3 litre diesel .

I believe they’ll have to offer the way superior hybrid in next years model 

I really love the CVT 7 speeds with the 2.4 engines, just bought the second one, didn't really need to but I wanted to get this combo again before Honda surrendered to this crazy hybrid fashion. Or maybe they could see a good business potential 7 or 8 years down the road when hybrid owners will start to replace their expensive Lithium batteries?

 

And you are right after 200000 km I will have spent 100000 Bahts more then you, but I just don't like driving diesels. Owned one, and hated it for 6 years.

[kwonitoy]

7 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I'll tell you what I know. I traded in a 4x4 2 8i Toyota Truck with less than 30,000Km.

 

I bought the Legender. I am happy.

 

I don't spend my days going through the " thread to the needle " on cars.

 

I made a comment, its a happy purchase.

 

Thats it, thats all

 

Ask me one on hotels, bars and discotheques and I can answer you with what I have exoert knowledge of.

Just looking on the website I see the Legender is made in Japan.

I also see a lot of similarities inside with my 22 4 Runner, also made in Japan.

Congrats on your new truck.

I bought the 4 runner in Canada for the same reasons as a lot of people buy Toyota.

I've owned 3 in Thailand and had many at work and like the reliability.

Mind you, if they sold the mini Raptor in Canada I would have gone for that.

[Chongalulu]

17 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

I really love the CVT 7 speeds with the 2.4 engines, just bought the second one, didn't really need to but I wanted to get this combo again before Honda surrendered to this crazy hybrid fashion. Or maybe they could see a good business potential 7 or 8 years down the road when hybrid owners will start to replace their expensive Lithium batteries?

 

And you are right after 200000 km I will have spent 100000 Bahts more then you, but I just don't like driving diesels. Owned one, and hated it for 6 years.

Replacing batteries is something of an unsubstantiated urban myth. Has the long running Prius had those issues? Sure,battery technology will improve- that’s normal- but the current Honda hybrids are way better in efficiency,economy  and performance than a decade plus old technology petrol engine that hasn’t been used for several years in more discriminating markets.

 I don’t know what diesel you had - I suspect an old technology one? but take a current 2.2 litre turbo diesel (say Mazda) and it’ll be producing as much total horse power as your 2.4 petrol engine and more importantly ,WAY more torque for better drivability. Add in the better economy coupled with the unusual situation of diesel being much cheaper in Thailand and there’s a clear advantage.

[Boomer6969]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

Replacing batteries is something of an unsubstantiated urban myth. Has the long running Prius had those issues? Sure,battery technology will improve- that’s normal- but the current Honda hybrids are way better in efficiency,economy  and performance than a decade plus old technology petrol engine that hasn’t been used for several years in more discriminating markets.

 I don’t know what diesel you had - I suspect an old technology one? but take a current 2.2 litre turbo diesel (say Mazda) and it’ll be producing as much total horse power as your 2.4 petrol engine and more importantly ,WAY more torque for better drivability. Add in the better economy coupled with the unusual situation of diesel being much cheaper in Thailand and there’s a clear advantage.

Well, I'd recommend our readers to google "Prius battery life expectancy" to get a better appraisal of the "urban myth"..

Otherwise, the CRV I bought this July set me back 1380000 how much would that Mazda thing have cost me?

 

[Ralf001]

20 hours ago, nchuckle said:

Well yes,you’d expect a vehicle to be 'streets ahead' of one designed 14 years ago ! You should be using the bar of competing contemporary vehicles as your benchmark. 
Trucks and the Fortuner type SUVs on which they are based still use an unsophisticated ladder chassis and lack the IRS of a more sophisticated SUV like the Honda CRV which will consequently have much better handling and  ride . Did you even know which yours has ? 

Wonder if scouse123 knows the old 14yr old truck and the new Fortuner he has shares the same chassis that has had minimal changes during that 14 years !!

[Scouse123]

41 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Wonder if scouse123 knows the old 14yr old truck and the new Fortuner he has shares the same chassis that has had minimal changes during that 14 years !!

It probably shares the same chassis as the Toyota 4X4 2.8i Rocco that I just got rid of after just short of 4 years!

 

Apples and Oranges........ or sour grapes?

 

Does your 14 year old truck or my nearly 4 year old truck have all thew latest tech and gadgets that the new Legender has?

 

New body shape, new lights, new exterior and plush interior, seats 7, automatic boot opening and closing, cloud tracking in case of theft, loaded dash with latest apps etc etc?

 

Nope, I don't think so!

 

I can afford it, I liked and so I bought it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

It probably shares the same chassis as the Toyota 4X4 2.8i Rocco that I just got rid of after just short of 4 years!

 

Apples and Oranges........ or sour grapes?

 

Does your 14 year old truck or my nearly 4 year old truck have all thew latest tech and gadgets that the new Legender has?

 

New body shape, new lights, new exterior and plush interior, seats 7, automatic boot opening and closing, cloud tracking in case of theft, loaded dash with latest apps etc etc?

 

Nope, I don't think so!

 

I can afford it, I liked and so I bought it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No sour grapes here mate, both the revo/hilux and Fortuner are terrible vehicles.

 

The chassis under both dates back to 2004 with only minor improvement since.

[fredob43]

On 10/18/2022 at 1:46 PM, Bob12345 said:

I got the TRD 4x4 (2.8l)  from a couple of years ago and with my slow driving style I need 7.8 liters per 100km.

You should be able to beat that.

The 2.8lt is more economical than the 2.4lt. As the 2.8lt is geared down, different rear axle. Friend of mine has a 2.4lt Tuna, we have gone on several runs together. He can never get the same economy as I do from my 2.8lt. EG on runs, I get Ave: 6.1lt = 100km his is nearer to 7.2. We assumed that his comp: in the Tuna was not saying the same as mine so we tested it out both started off with a full tank, did a 1k KM return run I could have made it back with some fuel spare. He had to stop for fuel cos his fuel light came on when we had around 100km to go. So never assume that a small engine will get better Milage. 

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

No sour grapes here mate, both the revo/hilux and Fortuner are terrible vehicles.

 

The chassis under both dates back to 2004 with only minor improvement since.

Suggest you look up the difference in the two. The Revo is longer with leaf springs the Tuna has coil springs. Different shocks. + a lot of other changes. About the only thing that's the same is they both have chassis. Oh, have owned both they drive like totally different cars. The Tuna sticks to the road like glue, the Revo like all pickups will bounce all over the place at speed. 

[fredob43]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:23 AM, PJ71 said:

The Fortuner is too big but you 'love' the Raptor.....hmmm

 

No idea why so many people have the Raptor, i had a wildtrack before when i was building my house, sold it as soon as i didn't need it anymore - horrible.

I was similar to you had a Vigo when we got the house, Changed it for a Tuna once I didn't require it for carting things anymore. 

[Ralf001]

18 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

Suggest you look up the difference in the two. The Revo is longer with leaf springs the Tuna has coil springs. Different shocks. + a lot of other changes. About the only thing that's the same is they both have chassis. Oh, have owned both they drive like totally different cars. The Tuna sticks to the road like glue, the Revo like all pickups will bounce all over the place at speed. 

They are both based on the same architecture which was designed in 2004.

If this basic fact is too much your thick skull to understand go hassle someone else with your clueless repliess.

 

 

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

Well, I'd recommend our readers to google "Prius battery life expectancy" to get a better appraisal of the "urban myth"..

Otherwise, the CRV I bought this July set me back 1380000 how much would that Mazda thing have cost me?

 

The equivalent petrol Mazda CX-5 is similarly priced and the better diesel about 180k more as you’d expect and over the lifetime of the car will be more than recouped by fuel cost savings. 
The same saving principle applies to the hybrid even if you do replace the battery after 8-10years (2k US dollars so likely cheaper here and with reducing battery costs even less come that time). It’s generally accepted that the fuel savings of a hybrid will easily more than cover battery replacement cost. Resale value would also be greater for later more economical model versions 

[Boomer6969]

1 minute ago, nchuckle said:

The equivalent petrol Mazda CX-5 is similarly priced and the better diesel about 180k more as you’d expect and over the lifetime of the car will be more than recouped by fuel cost savings. 

Well if I take your figure of 16km/L  and 13km/L for the CRV, with a price per Liter of  about 35 Bahts for both E20 and Diesel, the fuel cost per KM will be 2.19  and 2.69 respectively. So to recoup the 180000 difference in purchase price the diesel owner will need to run his truck 360000 km, I'll let you figure the maintenance costs. And after that sort of mileage in Thailand most people a likely to be dead anyhow.

[Chongalulu]

5 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Well if I take your figure of 16km/L  and 13km/L for the CRV, with a price per Liter of  about 35 Bahts for both E20 and Diesel, the fuel cost per KM will be 2.19  and 2.69 respectively. So to recoup the 180000 difference in purchase price the diesel owner will need to run his truck 360000 km, I'll let you figure the maintenance costs. And after that sort of mileage in Thailand most people a likely to be dead anyhow.

the 16kml was for a not particularly economical 3 litre truck which would easily be surpassed by a 2.2 litre diesel SUV to compare like with like. 

[seedy]

Word on the street is that the Hilux and Fortuner will adopt the TNGA-F platform when the model updates.

It will remain body on frame as currently used by the Tundra and Lexus et al.

[unheard]

On 10/20/2022 at 3:42 PM, seedy said:

Word on the street is that the Hilux and Fortuner will adopt the TNGA-F platform when the model updates.

With the expected start of production at the end of 2023?

[seedy]

2 hours ago, unheard said:

With the expected start of production at the end of 2023?

You must mean for Thailand.

Been in production since late 2019

[In the jungle]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:29 PM, Ralf001 said:

They are both based on the same architecture which was designed in 2004.

If this basic fact is too much your thick skull to understand go hassle someone else with your clueless repliess.

 

 

fredo is failing to mention the fact that both the Revo and the tuna have a huge lump of cast iron known as a live rear axle out back.  That is the main reason why neither will ride particularly well and handling and grip is compromised.

[Tuvoc]

Nothing wrong with old technology a lot of the time - less complex, less to go wrong and longer lasting. I'd have no problem whatsoever with one of those "old technology" Honda petrol engines.

 

As for the much-criticised Fortuner with its outdated pick-up chassis - our 2.8 TRD Sport has done over 160,000km in the three and a half years we've had it so far.  I'm surprised how well it handles, no issues with grip, and it is as tough as nails, feels indestructible. Perfect for Thai roads. Ride quality isn't great over rough surfaces, but neither was it on my BMW 5 series on UK roads. The Legender has a lot of newer tech on it than the 3 year old Fortuner, not a bad idea at all to buy the current Legender ahead of the launch of the new model next year.

 

 

[fredob43]

12 hours ago, In the jungle said:

fredo is failing to mention the fact that both the Revo and the tuna have a huge lump of cast iron known as a live rear axle out back.  That is the main reason why neither will ride particularly well and handling and grip is compromised.

Lump of cast iron or not. The Tuna dose handle well rain or shine. It's not a sports car it's an MPV. My family were here for a holiday some time ago and I had to cart around 10 of us. Ok it was a bit of a push room wise, but it got us to where we wanted to go without any problems. So, they will do the job they were designed for. Oh, just one small point my lump is now 6 years old, and I have never had a problem other than changing the battery and general service. 

[In the jungle]

9 hours ago, fredob43 said:

Lump of cast iron or not. The Tuna dose handle well rain or shine. It's not a sports car it's an MPV. My family were here for a holiday some time ago and I had to cart around 10 of us. Ok it was a bit of a push room wise, but it got us to where we wanted to go without any problems. So, they will do the job they were designed for. Oh, just one small point my lump is now 6 years old, and I have never had a problem other than changing the battery and general service. 

These things are all relative.  Compared to a pick up truck it is pretty fine in terms of handling due to a five link rear axle.  Compared to a decent sports car it is god awful in terms of ride and handling.

 

The problem really arises because Toyota made the Fortuner to comply with Thailands PPV (Passenger Pickup Vehicle) regulations.  That allows them to offer a lower retail price as tax on PPVs is lower than for cars.  But those regulations means you are stuck with a live rear axle which compromises ride and handling.

 

The Mu X and the Mitsu PPV are similarly compromised.  The CRV and the Mazda CX models are not.

 

There are, of course, other very good reasons for buying a Fortuner; build quality and reliability to name just two.

 

 

[Tuvoc]

4 hours ago, In the jungle said:

But those regulations means you are stuck with a live rear axle which compromises ride and handling.

In the real world, does it actually make much difference ?  Driven normally and safely within speed limits, I'd suggest it probably doesn't.  In my experience the Fortuner ride quality improves as you add more passengers, but a bad road = a bad ride in every car I've been in, whether it be a Fortuner or anything else.