Thai tax id information request

[Alotoftravel]

I was informed by my bank that if I have a Thai tax id, they will not withhold taxes when they issue my interest.

i was not able to search for this information in asean website  . I would appreciate any information how I can obtain and where in chiang mai. Thanks 

[nigelforbes]

I understand that long standing rule has now changed and everyone, foreigners and Thai's now have tax deducted at source and must reclaim tax via an annual return. I bank with UOB who have paid the first 20k of interest free of tax, until June when they reverted to deducting tax from all interest payments. The reason for the change is because the system was being abused with people opening multiple accounts to avoid tax.

[neilrob]

Reclaiming tax is comparatively easy. I go to the tax office in the city hall complex, which is sort of opposite 700 Year Stadium (your tax office may be different, depending on where in CM you live. Early in the year (March or preferably before), ask your bank for a document certifying the amount of interest and take this with you along with the bank book, your passport etc. Best to take a Thai speaker along also unless you speak good Thai. I have always found the people there very helpful. Then you can apply for a tax ID. Actually reclaiming the tax is mostly done over the internet now, but I used to go there and fill in the forms on paper. I have always received tax back in a month or so after applying.

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

I understand that long standing rule has now changed and everyone, foreigners and Thai's now have tax deducted at source and must reclaim tax via an annual return. I bank with UOB who have paid the first 20k of interest free of tax, until June when they reverted to deducting tax from all interest payments. The reason for the change is because the system was being abused with people opening multiple accounts to avoid tax.

I'm in CM on retirement visa for 2+ years now.  I don't have any tax deducted on my normal savings accounts.  Bangkok bank only deducts tax from my fixed deposit account interest payments.  I have provided my Thai tax ID to all my banks and requested cessation of tax withholding.

 

Since all Thai taxpayers have an exemption from tax on the first 20K of interest income, UOB didn't withhold tax on that amount.  Once your total interest payments from UOB exceeded that exemption they began the tax withholding.

 

I didn't see one accurate statement in your posting about Thai withholding requirements.

Edited October 19, 2022 by gamb00ler

[nigelforbes]

28 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I'm in CM on retirement visa for 2+ years now.  I don't have any tax deducted on my normal savings accounts.  Bangkok bank only deducts tax from my fixed deposit account interest payments.  I have provided my Thai tax ID to all my banks and requested cessation of tax withholding.

 

Since all Thai taxpayers have an exemption from tax on the first 20K of interest income, UOB didn't withhold tax on that amount.  Once your total interest payments from UOB exceeded that exemption they began the tax withholding.

 

I didn't see one accurate statement in your posting about Thai withholding requirements.

Well, my UOB Premier account of 14 years standing (Airport Branch), changed from not withholding tax to withholding tax, as of June this year. When I queried them on this point they told me what I posted earlier. Perhaps you don't have tax withheld on your savings because you're special, dunno! Oh yes, I also have tax withheld on my UOB Fixed accounts also. And yes, UOB has had my Thai tax ID on file for at least a decade.

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by nigelforbes

[gamb00ler]

6 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Well, my UOB Premier account of 14 years standing (Airport Branch), changed from not withholding tax to withholding tax, as of June this year. When I queried them on this point they told me what I posted earlier. Perhaps you don't have tax withheld on your savings because you're special, dunno! Oh yes, I also have tax withheld on my UOB Fixed accounts also. And yes, UOB has had my Thai tax ID on file for at least a decade.

It seems you assumed too much from a single bank changing tax withholding procedure.  Other aseannow posters have experienced SCB bank mistakenly withholding tax or failing to properly associate their Thai tax ID with their account.  My SCB account has never had tax withheld because I gave them my tax ID when I opened it 18 months ago.  The changes at UOB are likely due to changes in company policy, or more likely incompetence.

 

Thai people don't normally have tax withheld as you claimed in your first post in this topic.  None of my immediate Thai family have tax withheld from the interest payments deposited to their accounts.

 

I'm not special, just well informed and well prepared wherever I have potential tax obligations.

Edited October 19, 2022 by gamb00ler

[nigelforbes]

19 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

It seems you assumed too much from a single bank changing tax withholding procedure.  Other aseannow posters have experienced SCB bank mistakenly withholding tax or failing to properly associate their Thai tax ID with their account.  My SCB account has never had tax withheld because I gave them my tax ID when I opened it 18 months ago.  The changes at UOB are likely due to changes in company policy, or more likely incompetence.

 

Thai people don't normally have tax withheld as you claimed in your first post in this topic.  None of my immediate Thai family have tax withheld from the interest payments deposited to their accounts.

 

I'm not special, just well informed and well prepared wherever I have potential tax obligations.

I cannot post the link or quote the article because it is against the forum rules, which forbids these things where the newspaper that shall not be named is concerned. BUT, if you google, "Taxman: B20,000 Interest Exemption Still in Place", you will see the article in question.  I believe what may have happened here is that some of us have not given our explicit approval for the Revenue review, this is because we were never asked, that's why we're being taxed.

[nigelforbes]

36 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

It seems you assumed too much from a single bank changing tax withholding procedure.  Other aseannow posters have experienced SCB bank mistakenly withholding tax or failing to properly associate their Thai tax ID with their account.  My SCB account has never had tax withheld because I gave them my tax ID when I opened it 18 months ago.  The changes at UOB are likely due to changes in company policy, or more likely incompetence.

 

Thai people don't normally have tax withheld as you claimed in your first post in this topic.  None of my immediate Thai family have tax withheld from the interest payments deposited to their accounts.

 

I'm not special, just well informed and well prepared wherever I have potential tax obligations.

There is an ASEANNOW thread on this subject dated August this year. If you really do want to remain informed, I suggest you read it and pay particular attention to the policy of KBank about which one poster wrote: 

 

"I phoned up KBank head office today to ask why WHT was deducted from interest on my accounts since providing them my tax ID#. They said it was a revenue dept policy to now deduct WHT from all saving interest accounts so there was nothing I could do more.

 

I got the information about providing Tax ID# to bank to avoid WHT from this forum in the past, so obviously that was wrong".

 

 

[trainman34014]

Been claiming mine back from Local Tax Ofice for years; once you've done it once they give you a Card with your Tax Number and Personal Details and it speeds things up from then on.  They usually Credit my Bank Account within a month; used to be done with Cheques, a pain as they could only be cashed at a Branch of Krung Tai Bank but now they Credit a Bank of my choice.

 

[gamb00ler]

23 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

There is an ASEANNOW thread on this subject dated August this year. If you really do want to remain informed, I suggest you read it and pay particular attention to the policy of KBank about which one poster wrote: 

 

"I phoned up KBank head office today to ask why WHT was deducted from interest on my accounts since providing them my tax ID#. They said it was a revenue dept policy to now deduct WHT from all saving interest accounts so there was nothing I could do more.

 

I got the information about providing Tax ID# to bank to avoid WHT from this forum in the past, so obviously that was wrong".

 

 

I have read that various aseannow posters have been given many differing explanations of why any particular Thai bank insists on withholding income tax while other posters have NO withholding at the same bank.  I apply a discount of 100% to what some random bank employee gives as an explanation on this matter.

 

I have savings accounts at three of the bigger Thai banks.  I was having tax withheld before I gave them my tax ID.  Since giving it to them, I no longer have tax withheld up to and including the June '22 interest payment.  I'll let you make all the assumptions you feel are warranted by these facts.

[nigelforbes]

3 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I have read that various aseannow posters have been given many differing explanations of why any particular Thai bank insists on withholding income tax while other posters have NO withholding at the same bank.  I apply a discount of 100% to what some random bank employee gives as an explanation on this matter.

 

I have savings accounts at three of the bigger Thai banks.  I was having tax withheld before I gave them my tax ID.  Since giving it to them, I no longer have tax withheld up to and including the June '22 interest payment.  I'll let you make all the assumptions you feel are warranted by these facts.

As said previously, I also was having tax deducted until I got my tax ID and informed the bank, after which no tax was deducted. But that was over a decade ago, then, a few months ago, tax started to be deducted once again. I couldn't be bothered to address this point with UOB but your arrogance and borderline rudeness has convinced me that on Friday I'll go and have a chat with them to see what's going on. I'll post details of what they say.

[Alotoftravel]

All,

 

can anyone help me where and how to get the tax id in chiang mai?

i know I can avoid tax with bodkin with the tax Is but I am asking for information how I can obtain one .thanks 

[Alotoftravel]

Quote

'm in CM on retirement visa for 2+ years now.  I don't have any tax deducted on my normal savings accounts.  Bangkok bank only deducts tax from my fixed deposit account interest payments.  I have provided my Thai tax ID to all my banks and requested cessation of tax withholding

Gambloor, 

 

Where and how did you obtain your tax id in chiang mai? Thanks for your info.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

8 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Friday I'll go and have a chat with them to see what's going on. I'll post details of what they say.

I wish you well with that endeavor, but please temper your expectations.  In my experience the branch level bank employees are very poorly trained in areas outside of their everyday responsibilities.  Setting up an account with the tax ID properly recorded to stop withholdings is only applicable to foreigners and seems particularly challenging for most staff.  Every instance where I have added my tax ID to an existing account required several staff and usually a call to their support line.

[gamb00ler]

44 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:

Gambloor, 

 

Where and how did you obtain your tax id in chiang mai? Thanks for your info.

I live in Nong Hoi and went here:

https://goo.gl/maps/gkGwXushYogfHBgf9

 

[Alotoftravel]

Quote

https://goo.gl/maps/gkGwXushYogfHBgf9

Thanks , I am 15 minutes away from there, could you tell me what I need to bring with me besides my passport. Any more information,  Much appreciate before I go in there.

[nigelforbes]

That building houses Region 1 and Region 2, it my help you to understand which tax region you live in. When I got my tax ID years ago I went there but was told to go to a special office in the town because that location didn't issue ID's, it sounds as though things may have changed since. I once filed a return at the Region 2 office (turn left at the top of the stairs) when I should have filed at Region 1 (turn right at the top of the stairs). It took weeks to get my tax return transferred across, even though they are both next to each other.

 

It was also the case that only people who had been in Thailand for more than 183 days were capable of being issued with a tax ID, if your passport couldn't prove that or if you don't have a long stay long stay visa, a tax ID wasn't issued. This has been the subject of much debate on various forums, exactly what the situation is today I don't know.

[JackGats]

Does this apply to the 10% tax on dividends? Could I recoup that as well? 

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, JackGats said:

Does this apply to the 10% tax on dividends? Could I recoup that as well? 

We were unable to reclaim the 5% tax on an RTF that was encashed early even though it was never used as a tax deduction, using that as a guide it seems improbable that you'll be able to reclaim the dividend tax either.

[Mike Teavee]

10 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:

Thanks , I am 15 minutes away from there, could you tell me what I need to bring with me besides my passport. Any more information,  Much appreciate before I go in there.

Sorry I can't say what Chiang Mai Tax Office requires but at the Chonburi 2 Revenue Office, I needed to show Passport, a Residency Certificate (that was specifically obtained for registering for a Thai Identification Number so if you happen to have one for a Driving License etc..., you needed a new one) + something from my Bank proving that I'd paid some tax on interest received. 

 

 

To get the Residency Certificate (Jomtien Immigration Office), I needed the form, photos, my Passport & TM30 (Registration of Address, may not be required in Chiang Mai but Jomtien is very hot on these so need it for almost anything you need to do with them)... 

 

I did this in July & registered the TIN against my Bangkok Bank Savings & Fixed Deposit account, the lady was very helpful, new exactly what I wanted to do & gave no indication that I was wasting my time & would be taxed anyway...

 

I guess we'll see year end + I need to file a Tax return to reclaim June's tax anyway. 

 

[nigelforbes]

Wow, a residency certificate is required to get a tax ID, that's one of the most outrageous things I've heard here in over 20 years. 

[Alotoftravel]

I am getting confused :

the intend of getting the tax id was to eliminate the withhold of the tax for the interest from the bank thus not needing to file the annual form to get the tax withholding ,  Is that correct ?

 

 

[nigelforbes]

4 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:

I am getting confused :

the intend of getting the tax id was to eliminate the withhold of the tax for the interest from the bank thus not needing to file the annual form to get the tax withholding ,  Is that correct ?

 

 

Yes, but only if the interest is under the 20k limit (not 100% confirmed or agreed by everyone here yet), thereafter it can't be withheld. Plus interest on fixed accounts can't be withheld (at least mine can't at UOB).

Edited October 21, 2022 by nigelforbes

[CMBob]

28 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:

I am getting confused :

the intend of getting the tax id was to eliminate the withhold of the tax for the interest from the bank thus not needing to file the annual form to get the tax withholding ,  Is that correct ?

There are multiple reasons to get a Thai tax ID.  (1) If you need it for work or other purposes, (2) If you hope to have your bank no longer withhold the 15% tax on interest (for the first 20k baht or whatever) and presuming your bank will honor that request (as some posters say has occurred), or (3) If you want to file a Thai income tax return to receive back the mentioned tax from the Treasury.

I obtained a tax ID years ago and filed a couple of tax returns and got the withheld 15% back when it was worth bothering with it (haven't bothered in the last couple of years because the interest withheld wasn't much but may do it again in January as you can claim back 3 years worth). 

Would note that I attempted (2-3 years ago) with my tax id card to ask my bank (SCB) to stop withholding the 15% and they simply said "no can do."  Maybe I'll try again.

[JackGats]

One further reason to get a Thai tax ID: if your bank back home asks you for a TIN number in your country of residence (ie Thailand).

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Wow, a residency certificate is required to get a tax ID, that's one of the most outrageous things I've heard here in over 20 years. 

Yes, the requirements I'd read online said that I only needed a copy of my condo lease agreement (which I had with me) but when we went to the 1st Tax Office they said that I needed a Residency Certificate & showed me an example of one so I knew exactly what I had to provide. 

 

Should mention that I initially went to the wrong office so it could have been that my lease agreement was enough but as we were just across the road from Jomtien Immigration & had all the docs/photos required it was not really a hassle to pop in to get one. 

 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, CMBob said:

There are multiple reasons to get a Thai tax ID. 

One reason I was advised to quote if they were reluctant to give me an ID number simply so I could claim interest from my Bank Account was for the payment of property taxes so I just said that I was going to be buying a condo & would need a TIN for that. 

 

[nigelforbes]

5 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I wish you well with that endeavor, but please temper your expectations.  In my experience the branch level bank employees are very poorly trained in areas outside of their everyday responsibilities.  Setting up an account with the tax ID properly recorded to stop withholdings is only applicable to foreigners and seems particularly challenging for most staff.  Every instance where I have added my tax ID to an existing account required several staff and usually a call to their support line.

I just spent 90 minutes with my UOB branch, it was both interesting and revealing.

 

The short answer is that several of the banks addressed the issue of tax on savings account interest in different ways. At least one took the easy way out and deducts tax from all  interest on all savings. Another bank wrote to each of their customers to obtain their permission to send individual account details to The Revenue to let them decide how to handle each customers tax deductions, this is because there is a data privacy issue involved.

 

UOB appears to have taken a sensible pragmatic approach. They encoded everyone's tax ID in their systems with a leading digit, which determines whether all the interest is taxed or whether the first 20,000 baht interest is paid tax free. There seems to be a third criteria which is the account holder starts paying tax in month X, according to what happened last year......(anything above 20k is taxed and can be reclaimed from the Revenue via a tax return).

 

The criteria that was used for this encoding was based on the average balance in the previous year and whether the account holder paid tax in that year. If they did, the probability would be that they would also pay tax in the current year so their account was encoded to collect tax in the same month as the preceding year. The flaw here is course is that balances may decrease yet tax continues to be collected in accordance with prior year balances.

 

In my case, I usually keep seven figures in my savings account, because interest rates are so low it's not worth locking the money into a fixed deposit. (my guess is that poster gamblor doesn't keep large balances in his savings account which is why tax is not deducted from his account or that of his Thai family). Note: The tax on Fixed Deposits cannot be avoided and must be reclaimed via a tax return.  In prior year I would visit the branch and get a tax letter which served as input to my tax return and allowed me to recoup tax paid. Last year I didn't, because interest rates were so low plus I seconded my funds to other duties for half the year, my interest and tax paid was minimal so I didn't file a tax return. This year, rates are still low but my balances have returned to 7 figures so I was surprised to see tax deducted in May this year. The reason for this is because May was the first month I started to pay tax during the first year this system was in place.

 

The tax ID on my account has now been recoded and the first 20,000 baht of interest will be paid tax free. Huge kudos to UOB Airport Branch staff who got seriously involved in trying to understand the problem and find a fix, I was pleasantly surprised.

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by nigelforbes
clarity

[nigelforbes]

You're welcome!

[gamb00ler]

On 10/19/2022 at 8:12 PM, nigelforbes said:

BUT, if you google, "Taxman: B20,000 Interest Exemption Still in Place", you will see the article in question.  I believe what may have happened here is that some of us have not given our explicit approval for the Revenue review, this is because we were never asked, that's why we're being taxed.

There are several mis-statements in that article.  Withholding and actual taxation are two distinct matters, but the author frequently conflates them.  No wonder so many are confused.

 

That article also implies that the banks do not forward notifications to the Revenue Department for interest payments unless they total more than 20K฿.  If true that's a sad state of affairs.

 

Overall, I have to conclude that the said article is too inaccurate to be of any use.