Any tips on growing outdoors?

[SenorTashi]

I've got various seeds on the way from the US and I'm not sure what the sativa/indica ratio is. I bought a couple of clones 2 weeks ago and then realized I had to go away for a week so I planted them in the garden and 10 days later they were in flower. Somebody posted on here that they plant out when the girls are 2 foot high.

I've got a couple of lights which I'm using successfully to boost the daylight hours on some more clones right now. Just curious to hear about anyone else's experiences. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by SenorTashi

[BritManToo]

Clones are grown under 16-18hrs light/day.

Reducing those hours will force flowering.

 

It's the change that forces flowering.

[SenorTashi]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Clones are grown under 16-18hrs light/day.

Reducing those hours will force flowering.

 

It's the change that forces flowering.

I know that. But can you grow a sativa dominant strain outdoors on 12/12 natural light? 

[oldscool]

Good question. Sativa grows naturally in 12/12, after all sativas are tropical landraces and they evolved for tropical climates with 12/12 light.

 

The "flip" to 12/12 from 18/6 (or 20/4 etc) is merely for tent growers growing hybrids to mimic the seasonal change in the more northerly latitudes of Europe and North America. It's not necessary for sativas. Tent growers usually chose not to grow pure sativas because some can grow to 5 metres!

 

Thai sativa grows year round here. Many growers like to harvest before the rainy season simply to avoid heavy rain damage, but it's not necessary.

 

So the answer to your question really depends on how dominant is the sativa in the breed you're growing.

 

But I wouldn't worry about it too much. Non sativas and autos will grow in 12/12, it's just not optimal for them.

 

 

 

[marcusb]

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

Thai sativa grows year round here.

Always grown indoors where I am the sun god. 

Exactly what triggers flowering in outdoor Sativa? I thought only ruderalis (?) (autos) went by elapsed time and not by light schedule change.  
I've been curious about this for a long time.  

[oldscool]

Another good question Marcus. And I've been curious about it for a long time too.

 

But I'm not sure anyone has the definitive answer to it, certainly I've never seen a definitive answer.

 

My guess is that it's mainly the time factor for Thai sativa grown outdoor in Thailand, as there is no significant difference to the hours of daylight throughout the year.

 

Maybe it's also something to do with the amount of direct sunlight, because in a natural outdoor grow some plants will be in more or less shade.

 

Ruderalis landraces are from Eastern Europe and Russia so they must be affected by light change I guess, to a much greater extent than sativas or indicas. They are much smaller with no significant THC and I believe they were cross-bred with sativas (and indicas) to (1) allow sativa and indica to be grown outdoor in the northern latitudes of Europe and North America and (2) to make smaller breeds for indoor grows. 

 

Indica landraces are from slightly further north than sativas - Afghanistan and Pakistan for example - so they are naturally adapted to some limited extent a seasonal light change.

 

I'm happy to be corrected on the above if someone has a definitive explanation.

 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, SenorTashi said:

I know that. But can you grow a sativa dominant strain outdoors on 12/12 natural light? 

Photo cannabis plants flower when they're big enough, even without a light change.

 

[fuehrio]

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

Another good question Marcus. And I've been curious about it for a long time too.

 

But I'm not sure anyone has the definitive answer to it, certainly I've never seen a definitive answer.

 

My guess is that it's mainly the time factor for Thai sativa grown outdoor in Thailand, as there is no significant difference to the hours of daylight throughout the year.

 

Maybe it's also something to do with the amount of direct sunlight, because in a natural outdoor grow some plants will be in more or less shade.

 

Ruderalis landraces are from Eastern Europe and Russia so they must be affected by light change I guess, to a much greater extent than sativas or indicas. They are much smaller with no significant THC and I believe they were cross-bred with sativas (and indicas) to (1) allow sativa and indica to be grown outdoor in the northern latitudes of Europe and North America and (2) to make smaller breeds for indoor grows. 

 

Indica landraces are from slightly further north than sativas - Afghanistan and Pakistan for example - so they are naturally adapted to some limited extent a seasonal light change.

 

I'm happy to be corrected on the above if someone has a definitive explanation.

 

I'm not sure but I think this was already shared somewhere in the cannabis forum: https://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/equatorial-cannabis-varieties/

 

[shdmn]

There are autoflower strains that will flower after about 3-4 months regardless of light.  I know someone growing one on their balcony right now and it's doing quite well.  Should start flowering pretty soon.

 

Just look for anyone selling "autoflower" seeds or seedlings. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by shdmn

[SenorTashi]

6 hours ago, oldscool said:

Ruderalis landraces are from Eastern Europe and Russia so they must be affected by light change I guess,

Ruderalis evolved with a very short summer so they learned to flower asap. They were crossed with the other varieties to create autos, which are normally ready to harvest after 70 days (if grown outside in Europe) I'm just about to germinate 9 autos. I grew autos for years in France and the least I ever harvested from 1 plant was 10g dried bud but even that is worth doing imo

Edited November 9, 2022 by SenorTashi

[SenorTashi]

4 hours ago, fuehrio said:

I'm not sure but I think this was already shared somewhere in the cannabis forum: https://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/equatorial-cannabis-varieties/

 

Very interesting read. I'm not sure how my strains will grow but I'm going to give it a try. 

I used to grow sativa seeds in France which I had collected from all over Asia. It was very frustrating though because they would get huge but then flower too late and just end up getting frost damage. 

After a few years of trying, I finally harvested some F2 sativa crosses in July, without using a grow room or lights

[marcusb]

On 11/9/2022 at 7:38 PM, SenorTashi said:

Ruderalis evolved with a very short summer so they learned to flower asap.

I've grown 3 crops of them indoors.  They will take anything you throw at them. 24-0 20-4 18-6 12-12 
Still flower at the same time regardless of light schedule, but 20-4 --18-6 is the sweet spot for weight. 
 I have some photo seeds from home, but will try autos if and when I grow here.  

"Photo cannabis plants flower when they're big enough, even without a light change."
No I'll politely disagree.

Ive seen mother plants that were well over a year old, still in veg with an 18-6
 

 

 

[SenorTashi]

9 hours ago, marcusb said:

20-4 --18-6 is the sweet spot for weight. 

I know it's a hotly debated subject but I've read lots of times that 16-8 is the best. I'm using 18 hours light at the moment and they seem to like it.  

[marcusb]

6 hours ago, SenorTashi said:

I've read lots of times that 16-8

That wouldn't surprise me, not what I read but info on autos is constantly getting updated.

 

 Indoors thats a decent savings on electric as well.  I've thrown autos in a 12/12 flowering room just cause there was extra space and they seemed to do fine, but were smaller. 

 

 So with their adaptability they should do fine outdoors here and never worry about timing or season. Seed to bag in 10-14 weeks.  Thats my theory  ???? 

 

 

[SenorTashi]

1 hour ago, marcusb said:

they should do fine outdoors here

they'll grow no problem, but you wouldn't get a decent yield unless they had more light. the first few weeks are crucial. I probably grew about 100 autos in natural light in france over the years and the lowest I ever got was 1 gram (because I grew it in February to see what would happen) In mid summer, they normally yielded between 10g and 40g. I heard you can get much more under lights.

[marcusb]

51 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

they normally yielded between 10g and 40g.

Back right green crack, left blue dream, right front gorilla glue, all autos, 18/6 

[SenorTashi]

2 hours ago, marcusb said:

Back right green crack, left blue dream, right front gorilla glue, all autos, 18/6 

nice

[BritManToo]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:38 PM, marcusb said:

"Photo cannabis plants flower when they're big enough, even without a light change."
No I'll politely disagree.

Ive seen mother plants that were well over a year old, still in veg with an 18-6

My answer was to the OP ........... plants outside, not plants under forced lighting.

I've also found random lights at night (street lights, moon, etc) don't stop or inhibit flowering once it's started.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by BritManToo

[marcusb]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:43 AM, BritManToo said:

I've also found random lights at night (street lights, moon, etc) don't stop or inhibit flowering once it's started.

 

Woah, stop the presses!! The moon doesn't inhibit flowering, 555 obviously, otherwise we would never have flowers would we. 

Ok, please send me a link that shows how photo-period plants flower when'BIG' enough. Ive been reading for years on the topic never ever read about flowering because of SIZE.  I can provide thousands of links that support a need for a change in sunlight hours. Never have I read they flower 'when big enough' 
 Gladly eat humble pie when you post that info. 

 

On 11/15/2022 at 8:43 AM, BritManToo said:

"Photo cannabis plants flower when they're big enough, even without a light change."

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, marcusb said:

Ok, please send me a link that shows how photo-period plants flower when'BIG' enough. Ive been reading for years on the topic never ever read about flowering because of SIZE.  I can provide thousands of links that support a need for a change in sunlight hours. Never have I read they flower 'when big enough' 
 Gladly eat humble pie when you post that info. 

My plants always flower when big enough under natural light, no matter what the season.

No point in posting links, most people on cannabis forums/thread have never grown themselves.

 

As for growing outdoors in Thailand,

Dead loss this year, sudden storms, violent winds, cheap Thai seeds = nothing.

My seeds from the UK, tent at night, outside in pots during the day are doing fine.

Last nights storm almost did for the flowering plants I left outside, pulled them inside looking very sad and droopy, but they seem to have recovered this morning.

50% shade or the leaves curl up ...........

Edited November 18, 2022 by BritManToo

[oldscool]

The key to outdoor growing in Thailand is to choose the most suitable strains – naturally these are Thai sativas.

 

Other tropical sativas would be more successful here than indicas or hybrids, but only Thai sativas are uniquely adapted to the Thai climate.

 

Not only that, but Thai sativa seeds are very easy to come by.

 

At the moment I’ve got about 50 marijuana plants in my garden, 45 are Thai sativas (5 different strains) and the other 5 are autos and hybrids. Needless to say the autos aren’t thriving on 12/12 light, but the green crack (sativa/indica hybrid) is doing very well at the moment, though I suspect that bud rot could become a factor later.

 

About methods of growing. One of my favourite outdoor master growers on youtube has some excellent advice about increasing yield per plant – in his US state he is limited to 6 plants - and his results for hybrids are phenomenal. However, I’m not sure his techniques would be necessary or applicable to Thailand because (1) we’re not limited to 6 plants and (2) Thais sativa is perfectly adapted to growing outdoors here anyway. His techniques are also extremely labour-intensive and I just don’t have the time for that for 50 plants.

 

Out of my 45 Thai sativas about half will turn out to be male, but this will still give me a far greater yield than would be possible in a tent in a condo or spare room over the same period of time. And zero electricity bills, no expensive or time-consuming nutrient regime, and generally far less hassle than tents.

 

And as 1 or 2 of the very experienced users here have mentioned, male plants can easily be brewed into an effective tea.

 

My method, which is still evolving, is simple:

 

1. germinate the seeds in soil in a very small plastic cup (from Tesco by the dozen).

 

2. transplant the seedlings to a larger plastic cup (Amazon coffee cups are the perfect size).

I perforate both types of cup with a hot metal skewer so that the water can drain easily. Clear plastic cups are good at this stage because you can monitor the root growth easily. I water from the top, using the flood method that I borrowed from the master grower above: flood the soil with water , then let the soil dry completely - takes 1 or 2 days in this climate depending on the root size – apparently this is optimal for root development.

 

3. transplant the plants either to large final pots or directly into the garden.

 

I also have a simple shade mechanism for the seedlings – for the rain, not the sun – which I can put up in less than a minute.

 

Have a good day all.

[Pinot]

My 1st outside crop of 20 plants still has not flowered after 4 months. I did cut the main stalk back at 3 months but most of the entire crop is 12 feet tall! I should have been cutting them back all through the growth process but didn't know better. I think they're about to flower but I thought that two months ago. No choice at this point than to let nature take it's course. It's a learning thing. I've got seedlings of auto-bloom for the the next crop.

[marcus111]

I think you are going to need a longer ladder...!!!!!!

[DontDoubtMe]

21 hours ago, Pinot said:

My 1st outside crop of 20 plants still has not flowered after 4 months. I did cut the main stalk back at 3 months but most of the entire crop is 12 feet tall! I should have been cutting them back all through the growth process but didn't know better. I think they're about to flower but I thought that two months ago. No choice at this point than to let nature take it's course. It's a learning thing. I've got seedlings of auto-bloom for the the next crop.

lets see some pictures of these monsters

[stoner]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:50 AM, oldscool said:

The key to outdoor growing in Thailand is

don't.

[bamnutsak]

2 hours ago, DontDoubtMe said:

lets see some pictures of these monsters

Agreed.

 

Words, eleoquent or otherwise, are useless.

 

 

[DontDoubtMe]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:50 AM, oldscool said:

Out of my 45 Thai sativas about half will turn out to be male, but this will still give me a far greater yield than would be possible in a tent in a condo or spare room over the same period of time. And zero electricity bills, no expensive or time-consuming nutrient regime, and generally far less hassle than tents.

to each their own. i grow indoors and love that i can grow year round in a basically perfect environment and not have to worry much about pests or mold. 

 

me personally i dont see the point growing a thai sativa outdoors for 6+ months just to get mediocre bud that can now be bought for 20 baht a gram or less.

 

"time-consuming nutrient regime"...

you dont give your plants any nutrients at all? just bad tap water or rain water?

do you at very least ph the water?

 

what kind of buds do you expect from a plant that never receives any nutrients?

[oldscool]

I’m reluctant to take this thread further off topic, but in answer to the previous questioner and for the correction of some of the numerous misunderstandings about growing outdoor landraces in their natural environment – ie Thai landraces in Thailand :

 

1. I can grow Thai sativas outdoors year round in Thailand: they are natural 12/12 species perfectly adapted to Thailand’s year round 12/12.

 

2. The claim that outdoor grown buds are mediocre is strange. When I and many others here started smoking, there was only outdoor grown natural landrace marijuana, and all indoor hybrids and runts since then have been bred from those original outdoor landraces for the European and Nth American markets, mainly because Europe and Nth America have the wrong climates for natural marijuana, but also for the tent growers who are space-constrained (plus ruderalis for the real indoor runts).

 

3. Thai stick is unsurpassed. And the very same original Thai stick landraces are still grown in Thailand, as I have described in some detail in another thread.

 

4. Artifical nutrients are completely unnecessary today for natural strains, just as they have been for thousands of years. I can’t comment on whether they’re necessary for tent-growers growing artificial strains. But my guess is that the European and North American indoor cannabis industries has a vested interest in controlling seeds, nutrients, lighting, cooling, tents, fanning, and all the other things that are unnecessary for natural landraces grown in their natural enviroment. After all, there are no naturally occurring European or Nth American strains of marijuana other than the non-psychotropic ruderalis runts used to breed indoor strains.

 

5. Ph-ing the water or soil is another time consuming activity that artificial indoor growers seem to  spend time and money on. But the evidence of thousands of years says this is not necessary for landraces grown in their native environment – eg Thai sativas in Thailand. Clearly some soils are better than others, but finding good soil here is not difficult. In rural Thailand, the water irrigation system is extensive, as you'd expect in a country where 35-40% of people work in agriculture. (No, I don't use tap water.) My soil and water are regulary tested by the Thai Ministry of Agriculture, as are all organic farms. Anyone can apply for such tests.

 

6. There are numerous organic methods of pest control and fertilization, and they’re in use by the many organic farms here in Thailand, not just cannabis farms.

 

As for yield:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0sT7au8zQAdzLC7dPyULf1BkKkCvSK91TwDm1yPBv1HFRo7dDwKUDF56PmJ8yBZDbl&id=100083200937492&eav=AfZlLa6j6tR94ufFqos2E4FprqJ8g0t8GjcJuVdBNtBqcoUmT7ztri3W_ezV9X4N5tI&m_entstream_source=feed_mobile&paipv=0

 

(hope the link works for you, some people seem to be having difficulty with the FB links).

 

In summary, I have 10s or 100s of thousands of years of nature on my side of the debate, and you have 3 or 4 decades of capitalism and big business on yours.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[bamnutsak]

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

Nth America have the wrong climates for natural marijuana

What an epic fail.

 

Humboldt County on line 1 calling you to complain.

 

Statements like this, and that one post is littered with a dozen or more unsubstantiated claims, and bat-sh*t crazy assertions.

 

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

Thai stick is unsurpassed.

Yeah, right. First off, there is no such thing as "Thai Stick". Yes, Thai Sativas are interesting, unique and have been used to create hundreds of strains. But let's not go overboard. Jamaican Sativas are probably as good.

 

 

The passive-aggressive arguments you use,

 

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

that artificial indoor growers

 

to slag off everything but your methods does not go unnoticed.

 

Look, you have your own unique ideas, but puhleeze do not make it seem like your way is the only way.

 

 

 

Show us photos of your ~ 45 plants.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by bamnutsak

[marin]

18 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Humboldt County on line 1 calling you to complain.

 

So right, in reality from San Diego to the Mantanuska valley in Alaska have been putting out premium product for almost 50 years now. ????