Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[puchooay]

29 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are wrong, Scotland can be described as an independent country. What it is not is an independent sovereign state.

It really is the height of hypocrisy. In 2009 the Westminster government went to court in support of the Kosovo UDI claiming that every country had the right to self determination, but it would appear that does not apply to countries under Westminster rule.

I do believe Scotland have had a vote since 2009. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[puchooay]

44 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The snp mps at Westminster are there as Scotlands representatives in the U.K. parliament. 
 

They represent their country there. 

How come they can vote on policies that don't directly affect Scotand?

 

It seem you'd like to be independent when it suits and not when it doesn't.

[superal]

40 minutes ago, RayC said:

Strange that the majority of your post is about that very topic? Nevertheless..

 

You're probably right but not for the reason stated. There was certainly frustration on the part of the EU that - having seemingly agreed a deal - May was unable to convince her own party to back it. However, as politicians themselves, EU leaders probably had some empathy for her.

 

The animosity and bitterness was fuelled by Johnson's lack of sincerity in reneging on the Agreement and his generally hostile attitude towards the EU.

 

A case of the EU looking after their own members' interests in a time of crisis.

 

Little bit more complex than simple French inertia and incompetence.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/not-doing-enough-france-senses-policing-alone-wont-stop-risky-crossings

 

 

The fundamental difference being that the Russia/ Ukraine war was outside of the UK government's control. The problems caused by Brexit were completely avoidable and self-inflicted.

 

The 'Irish Protocol' forms part of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

 

What makes you so sure about this? Most of the rhetoric coming out of Brussels suggests otherwise.

 

Hopefully, that will be the case and will occur sooner rather than later.

 

The labour shortage and the problems caused by it could at least been mitigated if freedom of movement for EU nationals still existed.

 

I have the utmost sympathy for UK companies.

 

Throughout the Brexit negotiations, they had to operate in a climate of almost complete uncertainty. Subsequently, Covid and the war in Ukraine have, of course, had a great impact but UK businesses haven't been helped by the lack of a strategic vision by successive UK governments.

 

I imagine that nowadays most UK companies think very hard about tendering for new work (especially if that war has an overseas' element), and that those that do build a large amount of contingency into their bids. 

 

At least we agree on one point.

This year there have been 41,000 illegal entrants to the UK via France , in small boats . You call that competence by the French police ? 

 

Brexit was not a government action it was the result of a referendum from the British public  who had enough of E.U. ruling and the massive influx of foreigners .

 

Just to rub salt in the wounds , the interrupted vaccine to the UK by the E.U. was never used because of Macrons view that it was unsuitable . 

 

Free movement of labour from the E.U. will never happen again . It is one of the reasons that people voted for Brexit as the UK was flooded with foreigners , some of whom were not lawful abiding .

 

Finally , what is the point of NATO membership when they cannot respond to Russian aggression which was the reason for its formation but instead the NATO countries are acting on a singular basis and the UK at the forefront of Ukraine support , having spent over £3 billion , to not only support Ukraine but stop the threat of Russian advances into Europe and at the same time the NATO members / E.U. are stabbing the UK in the back .  

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

How come they can vote on policies that don't directly affect Scotand?

 

It seem you'd like to be independent when it suits and not when it doesn't.

UK mps vote on U.K. legislation… The Westminster snp mps, as I already said, are there as Scotlands U.K. parliamentary representatives. 
 

I’m not Scottish so I really have no stake in the country’s quest for independence from the U.K.’s shackles. Though I do wish them well in this endeavour. 
 

That is for them as a nation to decide up. 
 

Simple. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bluespunk
Clarification

[puchooay]

55 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

That is for them as a nation to decide up. 

Quite right. I believe they've already decided.

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Quite right. I believe they've already decided.

I do believe that Scotland should be given a vote on independence on the understanding that its a one off vote and it wont be a regular thing , like the vote wouldn't be every few years .

   Give them a once  in a life time vote on independence 

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Quite right. I believe they've already decided.

No legislation exists that says cannot have another referendum. 
 

Not a single piece. 

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I do believe that Scotland should be given a vote on independence on the understanding that its a one off vote and it wont be a regular thing , like the vote wouldn't be every few years .

   Give them a once  in a life time vote on independence 

That’s for the Scottish people to decide upon, not you. 

[puchooay]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

That’s for the Scottish people to decide upon, not you. 

Incorrect. It has already been adjudged Scotland cannot pick and choose when to have a vote. That would be for UK Parliament to decide.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Since when was self determination attached to any particular country?

Since the first word was Belfast!

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Incorrect. It has already been adjudged Scotland cannot pick and choose when to have a vote. That would be for UK Parliament to decide.

Incorrect.
 

You are confusing conditions and regulations under which a referendum can take place with how often they can take place. 
 

The two are not the same. 

[puchooay]

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Incorrect.
 

You are confusing conditions and regulations under which a referendum can take place with how often they can take place. 
 

The two are not the same. 

You clearly have not been keeping up with the news.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, puchooay said:

You clearly have not been keeping up with the news.

I have. 
 

That is how I know you are incorrect as outlined in my previous post. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

You're going on about Scotland and you're missing all the good news , the UK has the worse growth in the G.7 Countries and not only that , I have a Guardian link to read as well , enjoy and a have a celebratory Christmas 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2022/dec/22/uk-economy-shrank-q3-household-incomes-shrink-recession-business-live

[puchooay]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

I have. 
 

That is how I know you are incorrect as outlined in my previous post. 

So, when have the Scottish Parliament decided to have the next referendum? Oh. Hang on a minute. They can't.

 

There really is no point in trying to argue about it.

 

Scotland did not (could not) vote on remaining in the EU. They didn't have an independent vote.

 

Scottish Parliament cannot lawfully hold a referendum as and when they please.

 

Scotland do not have a fully independent Parliament, if they did they wouldn't keep complaining about Westminster.

 

They don't have their own currency.

 

They don't have an independent legal system.

 

If it were up to me I would give Scotland independence. No ifs or buts. Just leave. No money, no support, no pensions, no funding. I doubt, however, the Scottish would vote for that.

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, puchooay said:

So, when have the Scottish Parliament decided to have the next referendum? Oh. Hang on a minute. They can't.

 

There really is no point in trying to argue about it.

 

Scotland did not (could not) vote on remaining in the EU. They didn't have an independent vote.

 

Scottish Parliament cannot lawfully hold a referendum as and when they please.

 

Scotland do not have a fully independent Parliament, if they did they wouldn't keep complaining about Westminster.

 

They don't have their own currency.

 

They don't have an independent legal system.

 

If it were up to me I would give Scotland independence. No ifs or buts. Just leave. No money, no support, no pensions, no funding. I doubt, however, the Scottish would vote for that.

None of that changes the fact that there is no legislative reason a referendum could not happen because there was one prior to brexit. 
 

Oh, and I’ve answered those points on parliament, currency and legal system previously. They remain the same. 
 

Here’s some reading for you. 
 

Educate yourself. 
 

https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/administrative-law/describe-some-of-the-ways-of-scottish-legal-system-law-essays.php

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bluespunk
Link added

[puchooay]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

None of that changes the fact that there is no legislative reason a referendum could not happen because there was one prior to brexit. 
 

Oh, and I’ve answered those points on parliament, currency and legal system previously. They remain the same. 
 

Here’s some reading for you. 
 

Educate yourself. 
 

https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/administrative-law/describe-some-of-the-ways-of-scottish-legal-system-law-essays.

Oh dear.

Edited December 22, 2022 by puchooay

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Oh dear.

Ah, can’t face facts eh. 
 

Just read and learn. 
 

Simple. 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah, can’t face facts eh. 
 

Just read and learn. 
 

Simple. 

Simple?

Scotland has its own independent and in parts clearly different judicial system with own jurisdiction. The law of Scotland is not a pure Common Law system, but a mixed system. 

 

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Simple?

Scotland has its own independent and in parts clearly different judicial system with own jurisdiction. The law of Scotland is not a pure Common Law system, but a mixed system. 

 

Thank you for confirming my assertion that Scotland has its own legal system. 
 

Not that I needed it…

[RayC]

2 hours ago, superal said:

This year there have been 41,000 illegal entrants to the UK via France , in small boats . You call that competence by the French police ? 

I have no idea how competent the French immigration/ police authorities are and I very much doubt that you do either.

 

Do you think that illegal immigration is a problem unique to the UK and of French/ EU making? If so, you are wrong. It is a European problem. The EU had an estimated 600,000 illegal immigrants in 2020, most of whom were in France and Germany.

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

 

Brexit was not a government action it was the result of a referendum from the British public 

Of course it was the result of government action. It was the result of a needless referendum called by Boy David in an attempt to shore up his own position.

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

who had enough of E.U. ruling

3% of EU legislation had to be enacted against the UK's wishes.

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

and the massive influx of foreigners .

So some (most?) Leavers were xenophobes?

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

 

Just to rub salt in the wounds , the interrupted vaccine to the UK by the E.U. was never used because of Macrons view that it was unsuitable . 

Not true. EU member states made individual decisions about which vaccines to deploy.

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

 

Free movement of labour from the E.U. will never happen again . It is one of the reasons that people voted for Brexit as the UK was flooded with foreigners , some of whom were not lawful abiding .

More xenophobia. 

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

 

Finally , what is the point of NATO membership when they cannot respond to Russian aggression which was the reason for its formation but instead the NATO countries are acting on a singular basis and the UK at the forefront of Ukraine support , having spent over £3 billion , to not only support Ukraine but stop the threat of Russian advances into Europe and at the same time the NATO members / E.U. are stabbing the UK in the back .  

That is just a rant which makes no sense at all.

[puchooay]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Thank you for confirming my assertion that Scotland has its own legal system. 
 

Not that I needed it…

What bit of " in parts" and "mixed" do you not understand?

Edited December 22, 2022 by puchooay

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, puchooay said:

What bit of " in parts" and "mixed" do you not understand?

I understand that it means their legal system is unique to Scotland. 
 

From the link I posted earlier 

 

“Scotland has its own independent and in parts clearly different judicial system with own jurisdiction.”

 

Simple. 
 

https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/administrative-law/describe-some-of-the-ways-of-scottish-legal-system-law-essays.php

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I do believe that Scotland should be given a vote on independence on the understanding that its a one off vote and it wont be a regular thing , like the vote wouldn't be every few years .

   Give them a once  in a life time vote on independence 

They already voted the Scot  peeps are as contrary as people in UK IMO. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

They already voted the Scot  peeps are as contrary as people in UK IMO. 

Did they agree to have a one off vote or was it supposed to be a regular vote every few years ?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Thank you for confirming my assertion that Scotland has its own legal system. 
 

Not that I needed it…

The problem with your faux victory roll is that, while Scotland has this hybrid system within its own jurisdiction, that system does not simply override the UK Parliament where referendums are concerned. An agreement between the Scottish and UK Parliaments is needed to legally allow another national referendum for Scotland, as was the case in 2014. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did they agree to have a one off vote or was it supposed to be a regular vote every few years ?

2014 was a one-off.

[Bluespunk]

41 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The problem with your faux victory roll is that, while Scotland has this hybrid system within its own jurisdiction, that system does not simply override the UK Parliament where referendums are concerned. An agreement between the Scottish and UK Parliaments is needed to legally allow another national referendum for Scotland, as was the case in 2014. 

Where did I say the Scottish Parliament could override Westminster over referendums?

 

Oh, and be specific…

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Mac Mickmanus]

37 minutes ago, nauseus said:

2014 was a one-off.

So they want another one off vote on the subject or do they want it to be a regular vote   ?

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So they want another one off vote on the subject or do they want it to be a regular vote   ?

Ask the expert.