Independence referendum: Scottish government loses indyref2 court case

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

England receives more than it pays in; Wales and NI too - that is why the UK has such a horrendous deficit. The point is that all our money goes into Westminster and a government we have rejected at every election since 1955 decides how much to return to us, and how much to charge us for the privilege of having them rule us.

 

We want to make our own spending decisions at every level of government. It is as simple as that. 

All the money England pays in taxes goes to Westminster as well , same as Scotland .

[James105]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Then why the reluctance to let us go? We will clearly never settle for Tory rule in Scotland; Labour are moving closer by the day to being Tory-Lite - we will continue to agitate and object. In fact, I see the anger growing as the UK continues its slide into nasty rightwing politics, and as our institutions continue to crumble or are sold off for a pittance to friends and family. You are tired of us now? We are still ramping up. 

So vote for a party that can get into power then.  You keep voting for parties that cannot win power in Westminster, and then blame someone else for this failing.  You sound just like a BNP voter who has rejected every mainstream party their entire lives wondering why they are not getting their representation in government.

 

I don't have the power to "let you go", but what is in it for this UK government (or the UK politicians who want to be re-elected), or the next one, or the one after that to have another time wasting, divisive, expensive referendum.  It didn't stop the moaning last time so even if granted it won't stop the moaning next time when your fellow Scots once again reject independence for economic reasons.  

 

Ramping up to what by the way?  War?  Terrorism?  Don't be so ridiculous.   

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

All the money England pays in taxes goes to Westminster as well , same as Scotland .

That's my point - we don't want Westminster to make our decisions for us. 

[IvorBiggun2]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

That's my point - we don't want Westminster to make our decisions for us. 

I don't either but that's the system in the UK.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, James105 said:

So vote for a party that can get into power then.  You keep voting for parties that cannot win power in Westminster, and then blame someone else for this failing.  You sound just like a BNP voter who has rejected every mainstream party their entire lives wondering why they are not getting their representation in government.

 

I don't have the power to "let you go", but what is in it for this UK government (or the UK politicians who want to be re-elected), or the next one, or the one after that to have another time wasting, divisive, expensive referendum.  It didn't stop the moaning last time so even if granted it won't stop the moaning next time when your fellow Scots once again reject independence for economic reasons.  

So what you are essentially saying is that in order to participate, you need to vote for one of the prescribed parties? My country en-mass has rejected the two main parties - should we simply give up our political aspirations and accept what is offered to us from your country in order to have our voice listened to? 

 

I am nothing like a BNP supporter and to suggest that the 3rd largest party in the HoC is similar to some fringe outfit is as insulting as it is idiotic. 
 

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

Ramping up to what by the way?  War?  Terrorism?  Don't be so ridiculous.   

What utter bilge - if your imagination is so stunted that this seems a logical step to you, then I cannot help you. In your own words, don't be so ridiculous. 

[RuamRudy]

Just now, IvorBiggun2 said:

I don't either but that's the system in the UK.

As we have seen, we have no power in Scotland to effectively change the system in the UK - so we want to remove ourselves from it. For some unfathomable reason, people in England seem happy with the status quo but we are not - so we want to leave. 

[IvorBiggun2]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As we have seen, we have no power in Scotland to effectively change the system in the UK

Why change the system? It's worked well enough for many a year. Question is would Scotland be capable of going it alone! Answer to that is 'no' as they already want to rejoin the EU. Why destroy something that works only to join an uncertainty with no guarantees?

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Why change the system? It's worked well enough for many a year. Question is would Scotland be capable of going it alone! Answer to that is 'no' as they already want to rejoin the EU. Why destroy something that works only to join an uncertainty with no guarantees?

 

 

Ah!........ and there you have the answer!

[James105]

32 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So what you are essentially saying is that in order to participate, you need to vote for one of the prescribed parties? My country en-mass has rejected the two main parties - should we simply give up our political aspirations and accept what is offered to us from your country in order to have our voice listened to? 

 

I am nothing like a BNP supporter and to suggest that the 3rd largest party in the HoC is similar to some fringe outfit is as insulting as it is idiotic. 
 

What utter bilge - if your imagination is so stunted that this seems a logical step to you, then I cannot help you. In your own words, don't be so ridiculous. 

The majority of England rejects the winning party every single election and anyway  I was asking a question.  Ramping up to what exactly?  There is no legal route to hold another referendum.   Scotland has nothing to offer to entice the UK government to grant another referendum.  So what is the next step then?  Complain even more than now (if that is even possible)?  

Edited December 2, 2022 by James105

[IvorBiggun2]

Here's what Nicola Sturgeon wants for the Scots.

 

Quote

No control of their currency, as they would have to take the euro, no control of their borders, with Schengen, no control of their courts, plus, huge monthly payments, for the privilege of membership – it all doesn’t add up. Talk about jumping, out of the frying pan, into the fire.

https://www.gbnews.uk/gb-views/an-independent-scotland-would-be-a-disaster-for-scotland-and-a-tragedy-for-the-uk-says-mark-dolan/320946

[RuamRudy]

22 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Why change the system? It's worked well enough for many a year. Question is would Scotland be capable of going it alone! Answer to that is 'no' as they already want to rejoin the EU. Why destroy something that works only to join an uncertainty with no guarantees?

Has the system worked well? At the last GE we had a government with an 80 seat majority despite the overwhelming majority of voters rejecting them. That's not democracy and it's not a fair system. 

 

We have an unelected second house that is stuffed with people whose moral right to be there is highly questionable, 

 

It doesn't serve the people. It serves the politicians and cronies who maintain it.

[IvorBiggun2]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Has the system worked well?

Of course it has, for the last 300+ years. 

[Phulublub]

36 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Of course it has, for the last 300+ years. 

That it has been the system for a long time does not make it roght, or mean it works well.  For rather more than 300 years other, even more archaic systems were in place.  Did their longevity mean they worked well? 

 

If not, then if OK to change them, then OK to change this. 

If they did, why were they discarded?

 

PH

[DezLez]

The SNP seem to be in a bit of disarray!

"Mutinous SNP MPs have forced Ian Blackford to quit as the party's Westminster leader in a major challenge to Nicola Sturgeon's authority and independence strategy."

 

Ian Blackford ousted as SNP Westminster leader in major blow for Nicola Sturgeon (msn.com)

[pacovl46]

On 11/29/2022 at 1:46 AM, James105 said:

So 1,018,322 people in Scotland voted to leave.   Then (in your words) another 1.3 million "just couldn't be bothered or they didn't care enough".   So the MAJORITY in  Scotland are not being dragged out of the EU against their will, are they?   It's only 1.6 million.  The rest either explicitly voted to leave or "didn't care enough".   

 

You might want to look up how referendums work as it's based on individual voters, not councils.  

Sigh

[James105]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Sigh

Sigh

[RuamRudy]

56% of Scots in favour of independence according to the latest polls. The labour resurgence is a dead duck, just like Brown's rehash of his UK transformation proposal. 

 

https://twitter.com/EmilyIpsosScot/status/1600460869648777216?s=19

 

 

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

56% of Scots in favour of independence according to the latest polls. The labour resurgence is a dead duck, just like Brown's rehash of his UK transformation proposal. 

 

https://twitter.com/EmilyIpsosScot/status/1600460869648777216?s=19

 

 

Scotish people spoke loud and clear, let them be

Poll shows Scots want new independence vote, claims Nicola Sturgeon

Research by Ipsos for STV found that backing for Scotland leaving the UK had increased to 56 per cent when undecided voters were excluded, a rise of six points compared with the last survey in May, while 44 per cent wanted the Union to continue.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6d8de3a4-7680-11ed-be91-363346a310de?shareToken=11b669dfe186ca0bafa16361c825e043

[RuamRudy]

Meaningless as long as WM refuses to countenance letting go of their cash cow, but a nice headline in yesterday's Times nonetheless.

 

Scots back independence for fourth poll in row