How To Acquire UK Passport For Child Born To UK Other Than By Decent Father?

[Tippaporn]

I'm attempting to help a Thai woman obtain a UK passport for her child who was fathered by a Brit with other than by decent status.  The child was born in 2012.  From my understanding she (the child) has automatic UK citizenship, in which applying for a passport would necessitate only the required information proving her to be a UK citizen.

Her father has put this off for 10 years and his whereabouts are now unknown.  His Thai phone is no longer in service and his business email comes up as "no longer a service provider."  For all we know he could have passed as he was 61 when his daughter was born.  He has had medical issues for some time.  Perhaps, too, he returned to the UK in order to access medical services there?

Anyone here have experience with this?  Since I'm an English speaker I'm just trying to help this girl on her behalf.  Any help would be appreciated.

[Mac Mickmanus]

You would need the Fathers UK Birth certificate at a minimum 

[Tippaporn]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You would need the Fathers UK Birth certificate at a minimum 

If the case is that he's deceased would it be possible to obtain from the relevant UK authority?  I'll have to check, too, with the mum to see if she might have a copy of it if he declared her as his own at her birth.

[Tippaporn]

The mum did recently contact a Thai lawyer who works both in the UK and Thailand but he wants 400,000 baht - the UK price, not the Thai price - for his services.  Outrageous.  I would think that this task involves mere paperwork and nothing else.

[Mac Mickmanus]

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The mum did recently contact a Thai lawyer who works both in the UK and Thailand but he wants 400,000 baht - the UK price, not the Thai price - for his services.  Outrageous.  I would think that this task involves mere paperwork and nothing else.

Why not apply for a UK Passport (for her) yourself ?

[yang123]

If the child was born and registered in the UK, or born in Thailand and birth registered at the British embassy, OP could obtain a copy UK birth certificate online from the GRO:  https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

 

If OP has the father's DPOB, he could also obtain a copy birth certificate from the same source if required. 

 

Procedure for obtaining a child's first passport here:

 

https://www.gov.uk/get-a-child-passport/first-child-passport

 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by yang123

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Why not apply for a UK Passport (for her) yourself ?

My thoughts exactly.  I have read that the father is not needed for a UK passport application on behalf of his child.  I have to say, too, that the UK.gov site is horrendous to navigate and decipher.  It would be much more helpful to allow someone to enter information into a site that's designed to then whittle down what's applicable given the situation.

If I can apply for the UK passport on her behalf I will certainly do that.

[vinny41]

I think the op needs to check if the child is a  British citizen first

If your father was a British citizen when you were born and your mother was married to someone else at the time, you may not automatically be a British citizen. You might be eligible to apply for citizenship using form UKF.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-on-or-after-1-july-2006

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, yang123 said:

If the child was born and registered in the UK, or born in Thailand and birth registered at the British embassy, OP could obtain a copy UK birth certificate online from the GRO:  https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

 

If OP has the father's DPOB, he could also obtain a copy birth certificate from the same source if required.

The girl was born in Thailand.  I doubt the father registered her at the UK embassy.  The mum has been trying to get him to obtain a passport for his daughter for 10 years without success.

I do have information on the father but have not looked at it in a few years as I left it up to the father to do his fatherly duty.  I'll revisit what information is available.  Thanks.

[Chivas]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

My thoughts exactly.  I have read that the father is not needed for a UK passport application on behalf of his child. 

You've read wrong I can assure you. Whilst my case was somewhat different in that we wanted to obtain a British Passport for my/our son who was born before the rules were changed in 2006 and outside of wedlock within Thailand

 

In your case the father is certainly "required" or you'll need to get hold of a lawyer in the UK that specialises in these cases

 

Ours was so difficult and as the mother and I were apart soon after his birth (but thats not the issue) it in the end became a non starter

[Chivas]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I think the op needs to check if the child is a  British citizen first

If your father was a British citizen when you were born and your mother was married to someone else at the time, you may not automatically be a British citizen. You might be eligible to apply for citizenship using form UKF.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-on-or-after-1-july-2006

Yep thats exactly what I was referring to our posts overlapped

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I think the op needs to check if the child is a  British citizen first

If your father was a British citizen when you were born and your mother was married to someone else at the time, you may not automatically be a British citizen. You might be eligible to apply for citizenship using form UKF.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-on-or-after-1-july-2006

So much seems to be conditional and the term "might" is used extensively.  It's difficult to ascertain definitively whether or not she's automatically a UK citizen given her circumstances.  The closest I could come to a definitive answer was found here:

 

You were born on or after 1 July 200You’re automatically a British citizen if you were born outside the UK and all of the following apply:

• you were born on or after 1 July 2006
• your mother or father was a British citizen when you were born
• your British parent could pass on their citizenship to you

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-on-or-after-1-july-2006

[Chivas]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

So much seems to be conditional and the term "might" is used extensively.  It's difficult to ascertain definitively whether or not she's automatically a UK citizen given her circumstances.  The closest I could come to a definitive answer was found here:

 

You were born on or after 1 July 200You’re automatically a British citizen if you were born outside the UK and all of the following apply:

• you were born on or after 1 July 2006
• your mother or father was a British citizen when you were born
• your British parent could pass on their citizenship to you

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-on-or-after-1-july-2006

Yes that is perfectly correct as we found to our cost

Children born to a Brit parent before that date (within Thailand) had to be married whereas after July 1st 2006 it changed and you didnt

 

She's going need specialist advice here if you cant find the father or he's not willing

Edited November 30, 2022 by Chivas

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, Chivas said:

You've read wrong I can assure you. Whilst my case was somewhat different in that we wanted to obtain a British Passport for my/our son who was born before the rules were changed in 2006 and outside of wedlock within Thailand

 

In your case the father is certainly "required" or you'll need to get hold of a lawyer in the UK that specialises in these cases

 

Ours was so difficult and as the mother and I were apart soon after his birth (but thats not the issue) it in the end became a non starter

400,000 baht is a non-starter, LOL.  She does not have that kind of money.  The mum's child was also born out of wedlock.  Considering the 2006 rules change that at least would appear to be in her favour.

I would think that a provision must exist for an avenue in the case of the father being deceased, for instance.

[Chivas]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

400,000 baht is a non-starter, LOL.  She does not have that kind of money.  The mum's child was also born out of wedlock.  Considering the 2006 rules change that at least would appear to be in her favour.

I would think that a provision must exist for an avenue in the case of the father being deceased, for instance.

Ohh for sure the child is entitled no question as born post 2006 but goes without saying documentation is required "from somewhere" to prove it

I could have done all that personally. If we had "known" instead of "assuming" he was entitled to British passport quite simply we would have got married simple as that.....Ohh we'd have divorced pretty quick lol in hindsight but that "assumption" caught out a lot of people I was too find out as well

Edited November 30, 2022 by Chivas

[Tippaporn]

Just now, Chivas said:

Yes that is perfectly correct as we found to our cost

Children born to a Brit parent before that date (within Thailand) had to be married whereas after July 1st 2006 it changed and you didnt

 

She's going need specialist advice here if you cant fund the father or he's not willing

After 10 years of beseeching it seems obvious he is, for whatever reason, unwilling.

Hopefully I can find enough "specialist advice" here.  I see no reason why the common man cannot accomplish what a lawyer can.  At least I'll attempt to do so.

[Tippaporn]

4 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Ohh for sure the child is entitled no question as born post 2006 but goes without saying documentation is required "from somewhere" to prove it

I could have done all that personally. If we had "known" instead of "assuming" he was entitled to British passport quite simply we would have got married simple as that.....Ohh we'd have divorced pretty quick lol in hindsight but that "assumption" caught out a lot of people I was too find out as well

Well, I'm glad to hear confirmation that the girl does have automatic citizenship given she was born after 2006.  That was how I interpreted it to be . . . that she need not apply for citizenship as she already has it but virtue of her father.  If it's only a matter then to gather all of the required documentation then I think that can be done.

[vinny41]

I think your missing key points on the UK Gov website

Your British parent could pass on their citizenship to you if they were one of the following:

• born or adopted in the UK
• If you qualify for citizenship in this way, your children will not automatically become British if they’re born outside the UK. Check if you qualify another way.
• https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-on-or-after-1-july-2006

I

[Mac Mickmanus]

30 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, I'm glad to hear confirmation that the girl does have automatic citizenship given she was born after 2006.  That was how I interpreted it to be . . . that she need not apply for citizenship as she already has it but virtue of her father.  If it's only a matter then to gather all of the required documentation then I think that can be done.

Do you know the Fathers full  name , D.O.B and where he was born ?

[Tippaporn]

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I think your missing key points on the UK Gov website

Your British parent could pass on their citizenship to you if they were one of the following:

• born or adopted in the UK
• If you qualify for citizenship in this way, your children will not automatically become British if they’re born outside the UK. Check if you qualify another way.
• https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-on-or-after-1-july-2006

I

The above seems to me to apply to Brits who are citizens by descent.  Above that it states:

 

You were born on or after 1 July 200You’re automatically a British citizen if you were born outside the UK and all of the following apply:

• you were born on or after 1 July 2006
• your mother or father was a British citizen when you were born
• your British parent could pass on their citizenship to you

She certainly meets those qualifications.

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you know the Fathers full  name , D.O.B and where he was born ?

Yes.  That is information that we do have.  Again, I'll have to check with the mum tomorrow as to whether or not she has a copy of his birth certificate.  Hopefully she does.

[Tippaporn]

I believe . . . at least at this juncture of understanding . . . that she needs only to complete this attached form:

 

OS_Form_010.pdf

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yes.  That is information that we do have.  Again, I'll have to check with the mum tomorrow as to whether or not she has a copy of his birth certificate.  Hopefully she does.

All the required info could be here :

 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093079/OS_Guidance_G2_07.22.pdf

 

[Tippaporn]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

All the required info could be here :

 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093079/OS_Guidance_G2_07.22.pdf

Many thanks, Mac Mickmanus.  I'm up quite late tonight and this looks like it's going to take more than a few cups of coffee tomorrow morning to sort out.  And again, thanks for your and everyone else's help thus far.  I'm sure I'll have more to post after I gather all available information tomorrow.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

All the required info could be here :

 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093079/OS_Guidance_G2_07.22.pdf

 

^ Or click on from here if that doesn't work 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/overseas-passport-supporting-documents-group-2

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, Chivas said:

You've read wrong I can assure you. Whilst my case was somewhat different in that we wanted to obtain a British Passport for my/our son who was born before the rules were changed in 2006 and outside of wedlock within Thailand

 

In your case the father is certainly "required" or you'll need to get hold of a lawyer in the UK that specialises in these cases

 

Ours was so difficult and as the mother and I were apart soon after his birth (but thats not the issue) it in the end became a non starter

Our daughter was born outside of wedlock in 2002.

 

Her birth was not registered at British embassy.

 

When applying for her Btitish passport we needed to supply a copy if my birth certificate and, if i remember correctly, a copy of my passport. Nothing else from me was needed.

[Thomas KH]

How is the principle of descent satisfactorily proven under UK law for citizenship rights, if I may ask? Is the father required to acknowledge paternity at the embassy? Or is the father's entry on the child's birth certificate sufficient proof of lineage and right to citizenship by descent, with or without consular acknowledgment?

 

I vaguely remember an American friend making such an acknowledgment for his infant son (Filipina gf) in Manila many years ago. He then returned to the US and married there, forever cutting ties and communication with the ex. The son however was given that precious privilege of US citizenship as a result of the paternal acknowledgment. It was all she wanted. She declined to pursue child support.

 

Don't embassies require some kind of incontrovertible proof such as a DNA test? By simply asking for the father's birth cert + passport, what's stopping the mother from using just about any other man's documents, assuming she has access to them.

 

Just curious how embassies handle the risk of fraud here.

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Thomas KH

[Phnom Penh Trader]

5 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

400,000 baht is a non-starter, LOL.  She does not have that kind of money.  The mum's child was also born out of wedlock.  Considering the 2006 rules change that at least would appear to be in her favour.

I would think that a provision must exist for an avenue in the case of the father being deceased, for instance.

It appears that she was not born before 2006 however in the case of a deceased father you will need to obtain the death certificate,from the town or city hall from which he came and was born in would be the best place to look?

I am a UK citizen but Irish through my grandfather and therefore eligible for an Irish passport,I am currently trying to source his death certificate which is difficult as I was adopted at birth.

I have now traced my real family through the passports office as that is who deals with all this now.Unfortunately I don’t get on with my real mother because she is a fat,narcissistic halfwit so it’s unlikely I’ll get any help from there?

[Phnom Penh Trader]

5 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, I'm glad to hear confirmation that the girl does have automatic citizenship given she was born after 2006.  That was how I interpreted it to be . . . that she need not apply for citizenship as she already has it but virtue of her father.  If it's only a matter then to gather all of the required documentation then I think that can be done.

Ah my bad it appears she was born after 2006 so qualifies automatically through the father,now you need to source his death certificate if deceased from the town or city hall that he was born in good luck.

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

It appears that she was not born before 2006 however in the case of a deceased father you will need to obtain the death certificate,from the town or city hall from which he came and was born in would be the best place to look?

I am a UK citizen but Irish through my grandfather and therefore eligible for an Irish passport,I am currently trying to source his death certificate which is difficult as I was adopted at birth.

I have now traced my real family through the passports office as that is who deals with all this now.Unfortunately I don’t get on with my real mother because she is a fat,narcissistic halfwit so it’s unlikely I’ll get any help from there?

You can order Irish Birth Certificates from here if you know your parents details

https://www2.hse.ie/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/order/birth-certificate/