Extending Work Permit for someone from Laos: Agent or DIY

[Barley]

Hello,

a girl from Laos working at a restaurant I ate at told me she has to work 2 jobs from 10am to 1am every day 7 days a week to pay for the extension of her work permit. She said it costs 15.000 THB.

 

I asked her if she is using an agent and she said yes. Her English is not that good but her Thai is excellent.

 

So I wonder: Why is she compelled to us an agent? Why can she not do it herself? Is it ignorance of the process or are there compelling reasons to use an agent?

 

I asked her to show me her passport and she has a Non-Immigrant Visa in Category L-A issued in Nov 2022 which is stamped "used". She also has a work permit card expiring in February 2023.

 

I wonder if she cannot save a lot of money and her health (because she seems totally exhausted from her work schedule and mentally discouraged) by going to immigration herself and extending the work permit without an agent - or are there certain circumstances which I am not aware of.

 

Could you please tell me what she can do so that I could relay that information to her or explain the reasoning why she should use an agent?

 

Thanks for your help.

[FriendlyFarang]

You are mixing two things up:

The work permit has to be extended at the department of employment (3k Baht or so)

The permission of stay has to be extended at immigration (1900 Baht)

 

She could do it herself, but she needs documents from her employer. I would assume that her employer is doing it for her, and she is paying her employer. If she says she will do it by herself her employer will probably decline, because he wants to pocket the 10k.

[Barley]

Thank you so much for your explanation. 

 

Exactly what documents does she need from her employer?

 

Does she have to go to the Department of Employment first, or Immigration first - what's the sequence?

 

Could you describe the process and the requirements a little bit more in detail, please.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Barley

[DJ54]

It’s the holidays give her a gift… 

 

[FriendlyFarang]

7 hours ago, Barley said:

Thank you so much for your explanation. 

 

Exactly what documents does she need from her employer?

 

Does she have to go to the Department of Employment first, or Immigration first - what's the sequence?

 

Could you describe the process and the requirements a little bit more in detail, please.

First step is extending the work permit at the department of employment, using form ตท5 (wp5 in english): https://www.doe.go.th/prd/assets/upload/files/nakhonsithammarat_th/e085d1248ca8b7917a48ccc8bfd76de0.pdf

The required documents are listed in this document in Thai.

 

The next step is then to apply for an extension for working at immigration. Currently I didn't find the document which lists the required documents, maybe somebody else here can post it.

[DrJoy]

7 hours ago, Barley said:

Could you describe the process and the requirements a little bit more in detail,

Contact One Stop Service migrant Workers (MOU)

 

Foreign workers of 3 nationalities: Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia residing in Bangkok. You can contact for service:

– Requesting to stay in the Kingdom
– Notification of residence in the case of staying in the Kingdom for more than 90 days
– Requesting a visa (NON.LA)
– Requesting to re-enter the Kingdom (LA)

Available at 3 offices:

 

 

1. Foreign Worker Service Center, Imperial World Branch, Ladprao, 5th floor

• Telephone 0-2530-4535-6 and 0-2530-4660-1
• Open for business from Monday to Friday from 10:30 AM to 6:30 PM, except public holidays.
• How to get there: Bus No. 27, 156, 178, 545, 502

2. Migrant Labor Service Center, Big C Shopping Center Branch, Don Mueang Branch (Saphan Mai), 3rd floor

• Telephone 0-2147-5643 , 0-2147-5644
• Open for business from Monday to Friday from 10:30 AM to 6:30 PM, except public holidays.
• Transportation : Bus No. 34, 39, 114, 185, 356, 503,520, 522, 543

 

3. Migrant Labor Service Center, Big C Shopping Center Branch Rat Burana Branch

• Telephone 0-2408-5602
• Open for business from Monday to Friday from 10:30 AM to 6:30 PM, except public holidays.
• Transportation : Bus No. 6, 17, 88

 

[DrJoy]

@Barley

 

Documents required for 1 year extension of stay based on working -

 

 

Criteria for Consideration

1. The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).
2. The alien must earn an income per the attached Table of Income (Annex A).
3. The business must have a paid-up registered capital of no less than Baht 2 million.
4. Said business must have submitted its financial statements as at the end of its fiscal year for the past two accounting years which have duly been audited and certified by a certified public accountant or a tax auditor, to prove that the business is sufficiently secure with actual and continuous operation, according to the guidelines for consideration of business status concerning the actual and continuous operation attached hereto (Annex B).
5. Said business needs to hire aliens.
6. Said business must have a ratio of one alien employee per four permanent Thai employees.
7. The following businesses shall be exempted from the Criteria (3), (4), and (5), and the ratio of Thai employees specified under Criteria (6), shall be reduced to one alien employee per one permanent Thai employee:
   (a) International trade business (representative office)
   (b) Regional office
   (c) Overseas company (branch office)

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form TM.7 (Attach 1 photo size 4*6 cm., fee 1,900 baht)
2. Copy of applicant’s passport (copy of passport with; photo and information page, last arrival stamp page, Re-entry Permit stamp page, Departure card (TM.6) and last extend visa) and the applicant must certify his/her signature on every sheet.
3. Copy of work permit.
4. In case the applicant is accompanied by the family, their vital statistics e.g. marriage certificate, birth certificate of their child/children must be provided. If these documents were issued by a foreign government, they must be certified by such foreign embassy.
5. Certificate of employment prepared in accordance with the form prescribed by the Immigration Bureau (Sor.Tor.Mor.1)
6. The Acknowledgement of Penalties for a visa Overstay.
7. Clarification of the reason and the need for hiring aliens.
8. Other supporting documents required by the competent authority (Sor.Tor.Mor.2)
9. Copy of proof of corporate formation e.g. certificate of incorporation of company or partnership certified by the Registrar within the previous 6 months.
10. Copy of certified list of shareholders (Bor.Aor.Jor.5) certified by the Registrar within the previous 6 months and it must be certified by The Department of Business Development.
11. A copy of passport and a copy of the Director’s work permit.
12. Power of Attorney duty stamp neat and attach a copy of the identity card and delegate.
13. Copy of Bor.Chor.3 , Balance sheet and statement of income and income tax a company/partnership (P.N.D. 50) last year with receipts, they must be certified by The Revenue Department or by The Department of Business Development.
14. Copy of withholding Income Tax Return (P.N.D. 1) that has the name of Thailand employees and name of applicant last 3 months with receipt and passed authentication from The Revenue Department.
15. Copy of applicant’s Personal Income Tax Return (P.N.D. 91) of the latest year with receipt, must be certified by The Revenue Department.
16. Copy of the list The list shows the social security contribution (SSO 1-10 form) of the last 3 months with a receipt signed by the Directors of the company and affix the company’s seal.
17. Copy of Value Added Tax (P.P.30) of the last 3 months with receipt and passed authentication from The Revenue Department.
18. Business License
19. Location map of Applicant’s Workplace
20. Photos of Applicant and Workplace
    – Outside the building : must appears number and the establishment sign clearly.
    – Inside the establishment : Applicants must appear together with the directors and Thai employees while working.

 
Remark : Documents other than certified by government agencies, must be signed and affixed with the company’s seal on every sheet by the authorized director according to the registration letter specified.

Edited December 23, 2022 by DrJoy

[Barley]

Hm, thanks a lot for the information.

 

All those requirements seem quite onerous.

 

Now I understand the value added by the agent: (S)he probably connects a business that fulfills the above requirements with a business who doesn't but needs cheap labor.

 

My acquaintance is working at a small restaurant with a staff of about 2 or 3, which just opened a few months ago, so I doubt the business can fulfill above requirements.

 

So I guess she has to pay the 15.000 baht for the agent's services, even though really the business should help her in my opinion, since they are the ones that benefit most from the cheap labor.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Barley

[zzzzz]

Dr Jay, those docs you copied and pasted, do not apply for someone on a L-A visa

 

My long term GF ( khmer) holds a L-A visa and a wp>
we use an agent here in Phuket for everything, makes things go so much easier

10,500 baht
not bad for 2 years  ????

PS: there are MOU offices for migrant workers all over Thailand , NOT just in Bangkok

[brewsterbudgen]

12 hours ago, DrJoy said:

@Barley

 

Documents required for 1 year extension of stay based on working -

 

 

Criteria for Consideration

1. The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).
2. The alien must earn an income per the attached Table of Income (Annex A).
3. The business must have a paid-up registered capital of no less than Baht 2 million.
4. Said business must have submitted its financial statements as at the end of its fiscal year for the past two accounting years which have duly been audited and certified by a certified public accountant or a tax auditor, to prove that the business is sufficiently secure with actual and continuous operation, according to the guidelines for consideration of business status concerning the actual and continuous operation attached hereto (Annex B).
5. Said business needs to hire aliens.
6. Said business must have a ratio of one alien employee per four permanent Thai employees.
7. The following businesses shall be exempted from the Criteria (3), (4), and (5), and the ratio of Thai employees specified under Criteria (6), shall be reduced to one alien employee per one permanent Thai employee:
   (a) International trade business (representative office)
   (b) Regional office
   (c) Overseas company (branch office)

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form TM.7 (Attach 1 photo size 4*6 cm., fee 1,900 baht)
2. Copy of applicant’s passport (copy of passport with; photo and information page, last arrival stamp page, Re-entry Permit stamp page, Departure card (TM.6) and last extend visa) and the applicant must certify his/her signature on every sheet.
3. Copy of work permit.
4. In case the applicant is accompanied by the family, their vital statistics e.g. marriage certificate, birth certificate of their child/children must be provided. If these documents were issued by a foreign government, they must be certified by such foreign embassy.
5. Certificate of employment prepared in accordance with the form prescribed by the Immigration Bureau (Sor.Tor.Mor.1)
6. The Acknowledgement of Penalties for a visa Overstay.
7. Clarification of the reason and the need for hiring aliens.
8. Other supporting documents required by the competent authority (Sor.Tor.Mor.2)
9. Copy of proof of corporate formation e.g. certificate of incorporation of company or partnership certified by the Registrar within the previous 6 months.
10. Copy of certified list of shareholders (Bor.Aor.Jor.5) certified by the Registrar within the previous 6 months and it must be certified by The Department of Business Development.
11. A copy of passport and a copy of the Director’s work permit.
12. Power of Attorney duty stamp neat and attach a copy of the identity card and delegate.
13. Copy of Bor.Chor.3 , Balance sheet and statement of income and income tax a company/partnership (P.N.D. 50) last year with receipts, they must be certified by The Revenue Department or by The Department of Business Development.
14. Copy of withholding Income Tax Return (P.N.D. 1) that has the name of Thailand employees and name of applicant last 3 months with receipt and passed authentication from The Revenue Department.
15. Copy of applicant’s Personal Income Tax Return (P.N.D. 91) of the latest year with receipt, must be certified by The Revenue Department.
16. Copy of the list The list shows the social security contribution (SSO 1-10 form) of the last 3 months with a receipt signed by the Directors of the company and affix the company’s seal.
17. Copy of Value Added Tax (P.P.30) of the last 3 months with receipt and passed authentication from The Revenue Department.
18. Business License
19. Location map of Applicant’s Workplace
20. Photos of Applicant and Workplace
    – Outside the building : must appears number and the establishment sign clearly.
    – Inside the establishment : Applicants must appear together with the directors and Thai employees while working.

 
Remark : Documents other than certified by government agencies, must be signed and affixed with the company’s seal on every sheet by the authorized director according to the registration letter specified.

All very useful except the OP is asking about a Lao citizen working in Thailand under the migrant labour scheme.

 

This document is useful: https://www.ilo.org/dyn/migpractice/docs/214/Thailand.pdf

[problemfarang]

Well there are many posts and i read some of them because all seems to be same. 

 

I also know many waitresses in same position from laos, vietnam or myanmar and cambodia. Im close to some of them in a friendly way. And being very careful. Because they know how to suck your blood very well. And they are very professional in this im sorry to say but most likely your laos friend is the same too. 

 

Anyway, when i asked them about workpermit or how they can work in a restaurant while we farangs cannot. They explained to me there are 2 or 3 ways. 1 is they dont have workpermit, they do 90 days visa run just like many other farnags doing. Because of ASEAN i do believe its easy for them. 2 is they have some kind of yellowish paper which allow them to work for a month or likewise. 3 they find a thai husband marry but continue single life and using the visa. Now the agency shes using is most likely the same agency other farangs using. And its probably very cheap to do. One cambodian girl told me its around 3000 baht. 

 

In your situation if she is using an agency that means most likely the employer has them illegaly. I know many restaurants here providing them legit workpermits. 

 

I would suggest her to do 90 day visa run if her employer doesnt want to do it.

 

Yes, they can speak very good thai because other thai stuff teache them. 

 

A friendly reminder: these girls are there to do work. I know they look very innocent and naive but trust me they are not. Soon or later she will have a sponsor or some number of boyfriends. Otherwise there is no chance she can survive. So my advice is dont be that sponsor or kiks. Your story shows this is exactly where its going to. I know you want to help her but trust me let her do her own business. 

 

Another thing is if they are so hopless or helpless why almost all of them have the latest phones and so on. They make something between 250 to 350. When thai waitresses are making aroubd 450 to 600 per day. So how come they can survive. 

 

Not related to the topic but i was at one of the places where girls sits with you and talk (yes only talk) if you want and 1 hour is 500-1000 baht. When i asked her how much shes making per month she told me if shes lazy around 50K if not 70k easy. This amount is double time then one of my friends who is a teacher and working hard like a dog. 

[Sheryl]

I have 2 household staff here on L-A visa, presumably same as what the woman OP refers to has.

 

Getting the initial L-A visa and work permit is an onerous process that requires work both in the province where the person will work and in the home country (and lots of "tea money" at both ends). Virtually impossible to do without an agent and costs 15 - 20k baht. Also takes up to 6 months to do.

 

The visa allows for a 2 year stay and can be extended once for another 2 years. Extension of stay under L-A visa is easily done for just 1900 baht at immigration office but does need the employer to attend with her. Once  visa is extended, easy to get work permit extended at labor office (again ,requires employer attend).

 

@Barley the story is confusing because you say her L-A visa was issued in November 2022 but her work permit expires in February 2023. If so, that work permit (if it is a work permit, and not just a foreign worker registration card) must have been issued on a different basis than her L-A visa. The L-A visa is new.

 

What date is her permission to  stay? Should be 2 years from when she entered on this (recent) L-A visa.Typically the agent who arranges the L-A visa will handle the work permit as well.

 

I suspect the 15K she refers to is the cost of this new L-A visa just issued and associated work permit. A service already rendered and not avoidable. When 2 years are up, she can extend everything herself for another 2 years, but the initial L-A visa + work permit is a very complicated process and does need an agent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zzzzz]

Sheryl
things change:   I am referencing Phuket particularly as just met with our agent yesterday
NEW L-A visas can be issued IN Thailand, ( GF's expired while we were back in Cambodia) as they only issued her a 1 year extension (June 2021-2022) yet her wp was still valid thru May 2023), no more need travel back home to obtain new one. 
New L-A visas are valid for  1 year not 2 as  before
We came back last month, her on a tourist visa which is being converted in Phuket to an L-A visa / wp as well
this is all new according to our agent to get more workers into Thailand as there is a severe shortage of workers ( Thai's do not want do menially jobs anymore) 

FYI: employer does not need to accompany the L-A visa holder for extensions or 90 day reporting, as i did it with a POA from employer or the agent can handle it

 

OP
IF her L-A visa was issued in Nov 2022 its most likely valid till  Nov 2023
Her current wp seems to have been connected with a different visa not her current one

[novacova]

3 hours ago, problemfarang said:

Well there are many posts and i read some of them because all seems to be same. 

 

I also know many waitresses in same position from laos, vietnam or myanmar and cambodia. Im close to some of them in a friendly way. And being very careful. Because they know how to suck your blood very well. And they are very professional in this im sorry to say but most likely your laos friend is the same too. 

 

Anyway, when i asked them about workpermit or how they can work in a restaurant while we farangs cannot. They explained to me there are 2 or 3 ways. 1 is they dont have workpermit, they do 90 days visa run just like many other farnags doing. Because of ASEAN i do believe its easy for them. 2 is they have some kind of yellowish paper which allow them to work for a month or likewise. 3 they find a thai husband marry but continue single life and using the visa. Now the agency shes using is most likely the same agency other farangs using. And its probably very cheap to do. One cambodian girl told me its around 3000 baht. 

 

In your situation if she is using an agency that means most likely the employer has them illegaly. I know many restaurants here providing them legit workpermits. 

 

I would suggest her to do 90 day visa run if her employer doesnt want to do it.

 

Yes, they can speak very good thai because other thai stuff teache them. 

 

A friendly reminder: these girls are there to do work. I know they look very innocent and naive but trust me they are not. Soon or later she will have a sponsor or some number of boyfriends. Otherwise there is no chance she can survive. So my advice is dont be that sponsor or kiks. Your story shows this is exactly where its going to. I know you want to help her but trust me let her do her own business. 

 

Another thing is if they are so hopless or helpless why almost all of them have the latest phones and so on. They make something between 250 to 350. When thai waitresses are making aroubd 450 to 600 per day. So how come they can survive. 

 

Not related to the topic but i was at one of the places where girls sits with you and talk (yes only talk) if you want and 1 hour is 500-1000 baht. When i asked her how much shes making per month she told me if shes lazy around 50K if not 70k easy. This amount is double time then one of my friends who is a teacher and working hard like a dog. 

This is your view because of what you gravitate toward.

 

There are many, most, asean female migrant workers that never associate or want anything to do with westerners in the manner you’re implying. Unless one frequent businesses/places where they’re hunting and clamoring for you.

Edited December 24, 2022 by novacova

[problemfarang]

7 minutes ago, novacova said:

This is your view because of what you gravitate toward.

 

There are many, most, asean female migrant workers that never associate or want anything to do with westerners in the manner you’re implying. Unless one frequent businesses/places where they’re hunting and clamoring for you.

Thats why i used most likely, most of them.. etc. Didnt mean ALL but most od them.. 

[DrJoy]

5 hours ago, zzzzz said:

do not apply for someone on a L-A visa

 

If you know the documents required for L-A visa, why dont you post it here and help barley

Rather than trolling me

[novacova]

23 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

Thats why i used most likely, most of them.. etc. Didnt mean ALL but most od them.. 

…some. most are hard working people and keep to themselves. Don’t have time for anything but work 10-12 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week. And don’t want to be bothered by a cumbersome foreigner that will end up being a waste of time anyway.

Edited December 24, 2022 by novacova

[problemfarang]

2 hours ago, novacova said:

…some. most are hard working people and keep to themselves. Don’t have time for anything but work 10-12 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week. And don’t want to be bothered by a cumbersome foreigner that will end up being a waste of time anyway.

Wrong. We are talking about the ones working at restaurants or restaurant & bar. I agree there are some trying to do their best and earn money (250 baht per day) and send it back home too. But soon most of them from these somes, relize that there is no way it will be better. So the other way which they learn and adapt is sucking other's blood. 

 

I totally respect your idea and opinion. But my 17 years in thailand and being in most part of the thailand showed me that. Its all about time they relize they can do better just a little bit being sweet to someone. Also if they are lucky a good relationship which will save the girl and her family.

 

I feel what we are on is not the topic of the OP. so i will end this one here.. no need to make it longer. Thanks

Edited December 24, 2022 by problemfarang

[Barley]

I don't believe she has been in Thailand before. She just arrived recently.

 

But she did send me the visa and wp, so I anonymized it and posted it below - maybe that can remove some confusion about this issue.

 

[KhaoNiaw]

If you really want to help her instead of an agent, you need to talk to her employer so that you can put the paperwork together. A lot of employers don't have the time or want to know all the details and that's why it's much easier for them to go through an agent. Many of them will then take the cost of this out of the employees wages, though ones I know would do this over a period of months.
Even though Lao is very similar to Thai, it seems a bit odd to me that you say her Thai is excellent. Most Laos I know that have just arrived don't have much confidence when using Thai at first, especially in more official situations. So would you be able to help out with that at immigration, especially questions about documents, paperwork etc.? You say she seems mentally exhausted but trying to go through the immigration process on her own could be much more stressful than leaving it to an agent to handle. 

[Barley]

She is mentally and physically exhausted from working 15 hours per day, 7 days a week and at the same time having teeth problems which only allow her to eat soup for the last 10 days.

 

When I say her Thai is excellent, I may have exaggerated, because mine isn't. So anyone who can speak a whole sentence of Thai and read Thai seems to have a good command of the language as compared to me. ????

 

I have asked her about her employer and her agent, and she definitely says she is going through an agent. So the two don't seem to have a connection, and she pays the agent out of her own pocket, but again, our communication ability is limited, so I couldn't vouch for that 100%.

[zzzzz]

found some old docs when we first applied for the L-A visa , ( note replace Laos where you see Cambodian or Burmese as they are all interchangeable)
it seems from ur post that she only got a 3 month wp>  weird
They have made it easier now as ur pic her L-A visa was issued in Thailand,
Before all L-A visas had to be issued outside Thailand
note my pics showing original L-A an her extension ( valid for 1 year)

can u please post the stamp she got when she entered Thailand?  That will show date admitted.    Valid till....

 

 

The local department of labour office is the starting point. You'll need to go and visit them and ask what paperwork will be needed to hire a Cambodian worker under the special migrant scheme.

But the department of labour office has some good literature in Thai, as well as Khmer, Lao and Burmese so people can generally guide themselves through it.

But yes, ask for a quota first, and from there they'll give you a list of paperwork you'll need.

1) Requires an Employer.

2) Employer needs to apply to Labour for a quota, this requires demonstrating need (contracts, etc), although I know some individual householders have got a quota to employ a Burmese Maid.

3) Once the Employer has a quota from Labour (letter with a one year validity period stating how many workers can be employed), then the worker needs a Non Immigrant LA Visa stamp (Single Entry - 2 Years) - there are specialist brokers who can arrange these visas.

4) An Initial address registration is required at Immigration (in addition to any TM6 card held).

4) Once the Worker has the Non LA Stamp then a health check needs to be made at a clinic for Burmese Workers (again there are brokers who can arrange this),  if all is ok a hospital card will be issued costing 2,500 THB which entles the Migrant holder to 30 Baht Health care (same as for Thai workers).

5) Once the Hospital Card is sorted then the WP can be applied for - it's a sheet of paper rather than a Blue Book - cost around 2.000 THB.

6) The WP is specific to the Amphoe where the WP is based rather than the Province, as is the case with the regular WPs.

7) 90 day address reporting is required at the Migrant Section of Local Thai Immigration.

???? Just before the Non LA Passport Stamp expires then a WP Holder can apply to immigration for a two year extension of permission to stay.

good luck, it appears she has already paid the 15,000 as otherwise she would NOT have the visa and wp.

unless ur fluent in thai an dare able to make multiple visits to labor dept., deal with her employer and visits to immigration 
use an agent

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Barley said:

at the same time having teeth problems which only allow her to eat soup for the last 10 days.

If you care about her that at least is something you can help her with without having to go through an agent. Dentists are not expensive unless needing crowns or implants.

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, Barley said:

I don't believe she has been in Thailand before. She just arrived recently.

 

But she did send me the visa and wp, so I anonymized it and posted it below - maybe that can remove some confusion about this issue.

 

She has been in Thailand before. That work permit was not issued under this new L-A s visa.

 

Now that she has the L-A visa fairly simple to extend the work permit. But no need to so until shortly before the current one expires. 

 

As explained beforw, the main agent cost was for the visa which has already been issued. She has already agreed to a price with the agent and most of the service has already been rendered.  No scope for you to do anything about this.