Trump sued for wrongful death on second anniversary of January 6 riot

[Scott]

 

The partner of a US Capitol Police officer who died a day after the 6 January 2021 riot has sued Donald Trump for wrongful death.

The lawsuit filed on Thursday says Mr Trump "intentionally riled up the crowd" that attacked Brian Sicknick.

Police have ramped up security on Capitol grounds on the second anniversary of the riots.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64176567

 

[Tug]

Good I hope they win big!

[Saanim]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:39 AM, Tug said:

Good I hope they win big!

Isn't it quite confusing?

While Mr Sicknick did not suffer any injuries during the riot, a lawsuit filed by his family on Thursday alleges the violent mob played a role in his death.

His family sued Mr Trump on Thursday for wrongful death, claiming that the former president "intentionally riled up the crowd" and that Mr Sicknick died as a result of "the injuries that violence caused".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64176567

[Hanaguma]

You mean the guy who "died of natural causes" after the riots?  Puzzling to see a connection. Sad that he died so young but this report seems fairly conclusive.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988876722/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-medical-examiner-ru

[ozimoron]

51 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Isn't it quite confusing?

While Mr Sicknick did not suffer any injuries during the riot, a lawsuit filed by his family on Thursday alleges the violent mob played a role in his death.

His family sued Mr Trump on Thursday for wrongful death, claiming that the former president "intentionally riled up the crowd" and that Mr Sicknick died as a result of "the injuries that violence caused".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64176567

 

28 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You mean the guy who "died of natural causes" after the riots?  Puzzling to see a connection. Sad that he died so young but this report seems fairly conclusive.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988876722/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-medical-examiner-ru

Haters will hate. The Capitol police ruled that Sicknick died in the line of duty.

 

The USCP accepts the findings from the District of Columbia's Office of the Chief Medical Examiner that Officer Brian Sicknick died of natural causes. This does not change the fact Officer Sicknick died in the line of duty, courageously defending Congress and the Capitol.

 

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/medical-examiner-finds-uscp-officer-brian-sicknick-died-natural-causes

Edited January 8, 2023 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

If I were Sicknick's family or girlfriend I would be doing exactly the same as them. Its not going to be easy to win the case but their lawyers obviously feel there is a case for wrongful death. Good luck to them as I also believe this would not have happened had the riots not occurred.

 

While the medical examiner, Francisco J. Diaz stated he died of natural causes that does not rule out what else he said. 

 

"Diaz’s ruling does not mean Sicknick was not assaulted or that the violent events at the Capitol did not contribute to his death. The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”"

 

The crowd were vicious and watching the scenes of Sicknick being sprayed and later trying to wash the pepper from his eyes was a stark reminder just how violent this day was, he collapsed just a few hours later. Its not unusual to suffer a stroke from this form of experience and stress. Unfortunately this stroke also led to his death the following day.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

If I were Sicknick's family or girlfriend I would be doing exactly the same as them. Its not going to be easy to win the case but their lawyers obviously feel there is a case for wrongful death. Good luck to them as I also believe this would not have happened had the riots not occurred.

 

While the medical examiner, Francisco J. Diaz stated he died of natural causes that does not rule out what else he said. 

 

"Diaz’s ruling does not mean Sicknick was not assaulted or that the violent events at the Capitol did not contribute to his death. The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”"

 

The crowd were vicious and watching the scenes of Sicknick being sprayed and later trying to wash the pepper from his eyes was a stark reminder just how violent this day was, he collapsed just a few hours later. Its not unusual to suffer a stroke from this form of experience and stress. Unfortunately this stroke also led to his death the following day.

Presumably, they don't need to prove that he died from any particular cause, that ha already been established. The task is now to prove that Trump incited the riot.

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Haters will hate. The Capitol police ruled that Sicknick died in the line of duty.

 

The USCP accepts the findings from the District of Columbia's Office of the Chief Medical Examiner that Officer Brian Sicknick died of natural causes. This does not change the fact Officer Sicknick died in the line of duty, courageously defending Congress and the Capitol.

 

https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/medical-examiner-finds-uscp-officer-brian-sicknick-died-natural-causes

The Capitol Police can say what they like, it is a political statement and not medical.  It is in their best interests to have his death bound to one particular incident in his career.

 

And what do you mean by "haters will hate"?  I wrote that it was sad that he died so young. Where is the hate, other than in your personal paranoid fantasies?

[Saanim]

Whether the insurgency was or was not on behalf of Trump, such case would give surely a pretty precedent to many cases of a street riots (e.g. on behalf of George Floyd) while a policeman died being killed or getting a heart attack.  So, the policeman's family will sue George Floyd family for 50M?

 

   

[Bkk Brian]

35 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The Capitol Police can say what they like, it is a political statement and not medical.  It is in their best interests to have his death bound to one particular incident in his career.

 

And what do you mean by "haters will hate"?  I wrote that it was sad that he died so young. Where is the hate, other than in your personal paranoid fantasies?

The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

 

Sounds inline with the medical examiner's statement to me, not political at all.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Hanaguma]

39 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

 

Sounds inline with the medical examiner's statement to me, not political at all.

You could say the same about every incident in officer SIcknick's career, not just that day.  Being a cop is a rough and stressful job and the stress accumulates over time.  The statement that he "died in the line of duty" is wrong and simply doesn't agree with the facts of the situation. The officer had a clot in an artery- obviously his actions on January 6 did not cause the clot to develop instantanously.  There was no evidence of either internal or external injuries in his autopsy.  As  I said, it was sad for a young man to die at his age, but there is no connection to his actins on January 6.

 

Still waiting for your explanation about "haters have to hate".....

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

You could say the same about every incident in officer SIcknick's career, not just that day.  Being a cop is a rough and stressful job and the stress accumulates over time.  The statement that he "died in the line of duty" is wrong and simply doesn't agree with the facts of the situation. The officer had a clot in an artery- obviously his actions on January 6 did not cause the clot to develop instantanously.  There was no evidence of either internal or external injuries in his autopsy.  As  I said, it was sad for a young man to die at his age, but there is no connection to his actins on January 6.

 

Still waiting for your explanation about "haters have to hate".....

"but there is no connection to his actins on January 6."

 

Since when are you the medical examiner now? You are contradicting entirely what he said.

 

So now we are clear it was not a political statement, lets also be clear that this is not about any other incident. Its about what the police and medical examiner said about the 6th Jan riots.

 

I've no need to explain your last sentence you've wrongly attributed it to me, apologies accepted..........

 

 

[Hanaguma]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"but there is no connection to his actins on January 6."

 

Since when are you the medical examiner now? You are contradicting entirely what he said.

 

So now we are clear it was not a political statement, lets also be clear that this is not about any other incident. Its about what the police and medical examiner said about the 6th Jan riots.

 

I've no need to explain your last sentence you've wrongly attributed it to me, apologies accepted..........

 

 

...and apologies belatedly extended. My mistake. 

 

As to Officer Sicknick's untimely death, I was merely restating what the examiner said. Not to mention that the officer's condition was chronic and had been building up over time- thrombosis takes a while to occur. 

 

As the ME said when explaining why the death was considered natural;

 

The "natural" classification is used "when a disease alone causes death," the medical examiner's office said in the summary. "If death is hastened by an injury, the manner of death is not considered natural." 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/

[Bkk Brian]

32 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...and apologies belatedly extended. My mistake. 

 

As to Officer Sicknick's untimely death, I was merely restating what the examiner said. Not to mention that the officer's condition was chronic and had been building up over time- thrombosis takes a while to occur. 

 

As the ME said when explaining why the death was considered natural;

 

The "natural" classification is used "when a disease alone causes death," the medical examiner's office said in the summary. "If death is hastened by an injury, the manner of death is not considered natural." 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/

You keep missing he also said: The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

 

32 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

 Not to mention that the officer's condition was chronic and had been building up over time- thrombosis takes a while to occur. 

Where in any of the reports did anyone claim this above apart from you?

 

"The medical examiner’s office did not disclose if Sicknick had any underlying conditions."

 

“Stress is the body’s natural response to a real or perceived threat. A riot is an example of an acute stressor, and this type of event could trigger the heart to work harder, by increasing heart rate and blood pressure, which could conceivably trigger the formation of a clot that travels to the brain and causes a stroke,”

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Hanaguma]

47 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You keep missing he also said: The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

 

Where in any of the reports did anyone claim this above apart from you?

 

"The medical examiner’s office did not disclose if Sicknick had any underlying conditions."

 

“Stress is the body’s natural response to a real or perceived threat. A riot is an example of an acute stressor, and this type of event could trigger the heart to work harder, by increasing heart rate and blood pressure, which could conceivably trigger the formation of a clot that travels to the brain and causes a stroke,”

 

 

 

 

The report said he had acute basilar artery thrombosis.  Which is usually caused by hypertension, smoking, diabetes.  Not by having a stressful day at work. Clots dont form in a day. It is one of the worst forms of stroke that there is and takes a while to get to the lethal level.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The report said he had acute basilar artery thrombosis.  Which is usually caused by hypertension, smoking, diabetes.  Not by having a stressful day at work. Clots dont form in a day. It is one of the worst forms of stroke that there is and takes a while to get to the lethal level.

On the one hand we have an anonymous poster on aseannow.com. On the other, the medical examiner. How to decide in whom we should place our trust? Truly a dilemma. 

[stevenl]

I find these suits really strange.

 Imo after a conviction for wrongful death in a civil case compensation should be awarded. But a civil suit without a criminal case should not be possible.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

I find these suits really strange.

 Imo after a conviction for wrongful death in a civil case compensation should be awarded. But a civil suit without a criminal case should not be possible.

Really? This is not unusual at all. People and corporations get sued all time for wrongful death. And the standard of evidence is different in a civil suit. A preponderance of evidence is sufficient to find for the plaintiff as opposed to being guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? This is not unusual at all. People and corporations get sued all time for wrongful death. And the standard of evidence is different in a civil suit. A preponderance of evidence is sufficient to find for the plaintiff as opposed to being guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yes, really.

[placeholder]

Just now, stevenl said:

Yes, really.

Why do you think this case is special?

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Why do you think this case is special?

Why do you think I think this case is special? I didn't say or imply so.

Imo too much litigation in the US.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

The report said he had acute basilar artery thrombosis.  Which is usually caused by hypertension, smoking, diabetes.  Not by having a stressful day at work. Clots dont form in a day. It is one of the worst forms of stroke that there is and takes a while to get to the lethal level.

You keep player the doctors and ignoring the professionals, Basilar artery thrombosis is a deviating stroke that can also be brought on by a high stress situation as already posted.

 

Still waiting for you to substantiate your claim..................

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Not to mention that the officer's condition was chronic and had been building up over time- thrombosis takes a while to occur. 

 

Again:

“Stress is the body’s natural response to a real or perceived threat. A riot is an example of an acute stressor, and this type of event could trigger the heart to work harder, by increasing heart rate and blood pressure, which could conceivably trigger the formation of a clot that travels to the brain and causes a stroke,”

 

Again:

The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

 

Again:

Sicknick death ruled ‘natural’ but experts say stress can set off strokes

Edited January 8, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Hanaguma]

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You keep player the doctors and ignoring the professionals, Basilar artery thrombosis is a deviating stroke that can also be brought on by a high stress situation as already posted.

 

Still waiting for you to substantiate your claim..................

Again:

“Stress is the body’s natural response to a real or perceived threat. A riot is an example of an acute stressor, and this type of event could trigger the heart to work harder, by increasing heart rate and blood pressure, which could conceivably trigger the formation of a clot that travels to the brain and causes a stroke,”

 

Again:

The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

Thrombosis does not develop overnight. Atherosclerosis does not develop overnight. Blood clots do not form overnight.  You can keep on posting your CNN quote but that does not change the reality.  The doctor who actually performed the postmortem examination was quite clear- no internal or external injuries, no allergic reaction to the <deleted> that he was sprayed with, no external causes to make him hesitate to call the death natural. 

 

I understand the urge to try and pin more on the Bad Orange Man, but this is a losing effort.  The people who attacked Officer Sicknick were charged with assault and jailed. Not with murder or attempted murder. Yes the standard in a civil case is lower, but the ME report is clear. "Natural".

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Thrombosis does not develop overnight. Atherosclerosis does not develop overnight. Blood clots do not form overnight.  You can keep on posting your CNN quote but that does not change the reality.  The doctor who actually performed the postmortem examination was quite clear- no internal or external injuries, no allergic reaction to the <deleted> that he was sprayed with, no external causes to make him hesitate to call the death natural. 

 

I understand the urge to try and pin more on the Bad Orange Man, but this is a losing effort.  The people who attacked Officer Sicknick were charged with assault and jailed. Not with murder or attempted murder. Yes the standard in a civil case is lower, but the ME report is clear. "Natural".

The events of the day only need to contribute to his death to entitle his family to sue. They don't need to be the primary cause of his death.

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The events of the day only need to contribute to his death to entitle his family to sue. They don't need to be the primary cause of his death.

Hey, YOU'RE the guy who has to justify the "haters will hate" remark (sorry for the libel, Brian). Care to do so? 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Hey, YOU'RE the guy who has to justify the "haters will hate" remark (sorry for the libel, Brian). Care to do so? 

You seem not to comprehend what a factual claim actually is.

[Bkk Brian]

22 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Thrombosis does not develop overnight. Atherosclerosis does not develop overnight. Blood clots do not form overnight.  You can keep on posting your CNN quote but that does not change the reality.  The doctor who actually performed the postmortem examination was quite clear- no internal or external injuries, no allergic reaction to the <deleted> that he was sprayed with, no external causes to make him hesitate to call the death natural. 

 

I understand the urge to try and pin more on the Bad Orange Man, but this is a losing effort.  The people who attacked Officer Sicknick were charged with assault and jailed. Not with murder or attempted murder. Yes the standard in a civil case is lower, but the ME report is clear. "Natural".

What part of "The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”"

Do you not understand?

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

What part of "The medical examiner noted Sicknick was among the officers who engaged the mob and said “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”"

Do you not understand?

You mean the same medical examiner who said...

 

The formal finding was that the death was caused by "acute brainstem and cerebellar infarcts due to acute basilar artery thrombosis" and that the manner of death was "natural."

 

Diaz told The Washington Post that the autopsy found no evidence that Sicknick experienced an allergic reaction to chemical irritants. He also said there was no evidence of either external or internal injuries.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-natural-causes-after-riot-n1264562

Edited January 8, 2023 by Hanaguma

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You mean the same medical examiner who said...

 

The formal finding was that the death was caused by "acute brainstem and cerebellar infarcts due to acute basilar artery thrombosis" and that the manner of death was "natural."

 

Diaz told The Washington Post that the autopsy found no evidence that Sicknick experienced an allergic reaction to chemical irritants. He also said there was no evidence of either external or internal injuries.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-natural-causes-after-riot-n1264562

Yes the same one who then went onto add extra information that you are ignoring.

 

Acute stress can induce any pre existing conditions if there were any to contribute to the stroke in a chain reaction. As already linked to by medical experts previously. Acute stress cannot be identified as an injury at an autopsy. 

 

I will wait for reports from the experts at the court hearings before being as convinced as you are in your claim below:

 

"As  I said, it was sad for a young man to die at his age, but there is no connection to his actins on January 6."

Edited January 8, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[LosLobo]

10 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Thrombosis does not develop overnight. Atherosclerosis does not develop overnight. Blood clots do not form overnight.  You can keep on posting your CNN quote but that does not change the reality.  The doctor who actually performed the postmortem examination was quite clear- no internal or external injuries, no allergic reaction to the <deleted> that he was sprayed with, no external causes to make him hesitate to call the death natural. 

 

I understand the urge to try and pin more on the Bad Orange Man, but this is a losing effort.  The people who attacked Officer Sicknick were charged with assault and jailed. Not with murder or attempted murder. Yes the standard in a civil case is lower, but the ME report is clear. "Natural".

"Thrombosis does not develop overnight"?

 

Yet Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) is a common occurrence on flights more than fours hours.

 

In fact a seemingly young healthy personal friend of mine developed DVT after a seven hour overnight drive without a  rest break.

 

These are facts from a reality unaltered by "Orange" Kool-Aid.