38 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't think anyone is getting tired of democratic values, but nearly everyone is getting tired of woke, climate alarmist, green socialist values. 

Got some poll evidence for that or just an opinion based on ... nothing. Do you just aim to troll or are you actually willing to do some research before running your mouth? Is intellectual honesty important to you?

 

Auckland, 25 July 2022 – Among the 32 countries surveyed by Ipsos, New Zealand is most worried about the impact of climate change around the world with the majority (81%) of New Zealanders expressing concerns about the impacts of climate change that can already be seen in other countries

 

https://www.ipsos.com/en-nz/nz-attitudes-and-behaviours-towards-climate-change

 

Of those surveyed, 50 per cent of New Zealanders are very or extremely worried about the impacts of waste.

 

https://environment.govt.nz/facts-and-science/science-and-data/understanding-new-zealanders-attitudes-to-the-environment/

 

When asked if businesses would be failing people if they didn’t act now on climate change, 68% of people globally agreed, while 60% of New Zealanders agreed.

When it comes to individuals, globally 72% agreed that if individuals don’t act now to combat climate change, they will be failing future generations. 62% of New Zealanders agreed – in Australia, it was 69%.

 

https://genless.govt.nz/stories/how-new-zealanders-feel-and-what-were-doing-on-climate-change/

 

 

Edited January 20, 20233 yr by ozimoron

29 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Is intellectual honesty important to you?

I you had any honesty, you'd be generating your own electricity.

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I you had any honesty, you'd be generating your own electricity.

How do I do that living in a rented condo in Thailand? How is that related to honesty? I'm not the one making patently false claims without links to evidence. Try obeying the rules of the forum instead of just trolling and wasting our time.

 

My participation on this forum is premised on the willingness of others to debate in good faith and provide evidence and reasoning to back up their arguments. You aren't doing that.

Edited January 20, 20233 yr by ozimoron

52 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I you had any honesty, you'd be generating your own electricity.

If you had any logic you would know that are many other ways to contribute when not able to generate own electricity.

Edited January 20, 20233 yr by Bkk Brian

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

No because I an not from NZ and live in Thailand, so am not likely too.  Do you know what their people is then, because you comment is not very useful ????

I don't understand your post, but if you want to know why farmers don't like her policies I'll repeat for you

 

"Ever heard of 3 waters? Ever heard of the methane tax?"

 

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

If you had any logic you would know that are many others was to contribute when not able to generate own electricity.

Name your contributions?

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Hopefully NZ will learn lessons from this and vote more carefully in future. 

While I don't have any figures to prove it, apparently many farmers, among others, voted for Labour last election to keep the greens out of government. They won a majority, but still managed to find a place for green policies. Nobody will be doing that again.

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Name your contributions?

None of your business but rest assured they are included in this list on a google search "how you can contribute to help stop climate change"

On 1/19/2023 at 8:15 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Who said all the news is bad?

There will be cheering going on all over NZ.

 

The only downside is I don't get to wear my MAGA ( Make Adhern Go Away ) hat before the election.

 

PS I had to google it in case it was fake news, but seems it's true, hoorah!

 

BTW, the writing was on the wall, and she knew she is losing popularity fast as. I guess she thought it prudent to resign now, rather than be humiliated in the election later this year.

 

Where to now? The consensus among those I talk to about her is a job at the UN. Time will tell.

At least she had the sense to know when to quit. Not like some old dude that keeps hanging around with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

On top of a busy legislative program, Shaw said, Ardern had needed to steer the country through a series of crises, including a mass-shooting at two Christchurch mosques that left 51 people dead, a volcanic eruption that killed 22, and the coronavirus pandemic.

 

On top of that, Ardern also bore the brunt of a growing number of threats, Shaw said, and a toxic, misogynistic online culture that had grown worse in recent years.

 

https://apnews.com/article/politics-jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-covid-d4f8f8a6d7a81b2247909e17dc38a9f9?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_04

Well now that she has time, maybe she will got to WEF and see if there is a position available.  I just hope that NZ gets a good leader after the next election.

 

They can be thankful that the Canada PM is not available.

22 hours ago, bangon04 said:

so we really are getting totally sick of so-called "Democratic Values"... maybe Xi and Putin have the right idea after all??   

An international movement, you might call it.  The archbishop of that movement in the US is named Bannon, and he evangelizes his errrr, product to other nations as well.

 

 

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't understand your post, but if you want to know why farmers don't like her policies I'll repeat for you

 

"Ever heard of 3 waters? Ever heard of the methane tax?"

 

No. I had not.  So basically farmers did not want to pay tax or clear up their act to stop polluting NZ's rivers or producing greenhouse gasses.  

 

 

On 1/19/2023 at 2:01 PM, ozimoron said:

I guess you don't know that the ex PM in Oz was a far right Christian zealot who loved Trump. Just spouting hot air without knowing jack...

And by "far right", do you mean anyone who is not a communist like you?

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

My participation on this forum is premised on the willingness of others to debate in good faith and provide evidence and reasoning to back up their arguments.

And then to report them for "misinformation" when they beat you in an argument, as you have done to me many times.

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The love affair with Adhern/ Labour has been over for a while now.

Agree, and to quote an old American saying, "she was about as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip", this especially with the Labour Party shenanigans and the proposed "methane tax" and the "3 waters" bill, not to mention the increased crime rate, and poor policing, and Labour U-turns of late, and the list goes on......good riddance to her and Labour.

Edited January 20, 20233 yr by xylophone

1 hour ago, BangkokHank said:

And by "far right", do you mean anyone who is not a communist like you?

No, I mean far right. Morrison was that. He was a liar, protected his pedophile priest, loved Trump as I said. He was so radical that his party was almost wiped out the first time he faced and election.

 

What makes you think I'm a communist other than just wanting to throw an epithet?

1 hour ago, BangkokHank said:

And then to report them for "misinformation" when they beat you in an argument, as you have done to me many times.

I am happy when people beat me in an argument. It means I learn something. What I ALWAYS report posters for is failure to link to a claim of fact.

On 1/19/2023 at 8:15 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Who said all the news is bad?

There will be cheering going on all over NZ.

 

The only downside is I don't get to wear my MAGA ( Make Adhern Go Away ) hat before the election.

 

PS I had to google it in case it was fake news, but seems it's true, hoorah!

 

BTW, the writing was on the wall, and she knew she is losing popularity fast as. I guess she thought it prudent to resign now, rather than be humiliated in the election later this year.

 

Where to now? The consensus among those I talk to about her is a job at the UN. Time will tell.

"[the new PM] must be hard-headed enough to face up to Labour’s powerful Māori caucus and take all New Zealanders into his confidence by sharing what’s in store with what is, in fact, a constitutional revolution.

 

Right now the Government has alienated too many people with its parliamentary stealth tactics over Three Waters in particular. This is not what New Zealanders expected when Jacinda Ardern promised at the 2017 election that she would run an open and transparent government."

 

That hits the nail on the head for me. It is simply a matter of honesty and trust, and no amount of hugs or smiles could ever make up for the failings of Jacinda and her Government in this regard.

 

On 1/19/2023 at 12:44 PM, ozimoron said:

Because they like that not one river in NZ is fit to drink from?

 

But behind New Zealand’s clean and green image is a dirty truth — its freshwater rivers are among the most polluted in the developed world.

 

Last year, a government report found nearly 60 per cent of the country’s rivers carry pollution above acceptable levels, with 95 to 99 per cent of rivers in pastoral, urban and non-native forested areas contaminated.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-16/new-zealand-rivers-pollution-100-per-cent-pure/13236174

This backs up the "rock snot" stories I've been hearing about in some NZ rivers over the last few years. Anthropogenic eutrophication from the nitrogen and phosphorus used in farming fertilizers is a problem everywhere they are used. I think that NZ dairy exports were driven up by demand from China but it looks like a return to sheep farming would be a better way to go - there must be a better market for lamb these days - it's expensive enough. 

On 1/20/2023 at 8:55 PM, jak2002003 said:

No. I had not.  So basically farmers did not want to pay tax or clear up their act to stop polluting NZ's rivers or producing greenhouse gasses.  

 

 

Do you actually know any NZ farmers? Seems not.

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you actually know any NZ farmers? Seems not.

He doesn't have to. Anybody can read the news.

 

New Zealand farmers hit streets to protest cow-burp tax plan

 

https://apnews.com/article/wellington-new-zealand-climate-and-environment-government-politics-business-76a240eddaa78e6a9aa76740d021cb99

Edited January 24, 20233 yr by ozimoron

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

This backs up the "rock snot" stories I've been hearing about in some NZ rivers over the last few years. Anthropogenic eutrophication from the nitrogen and phosphorus used in farming fertilizers is a problem everywhere they are used. I think that NZ dairy exports were driven up by demand from China but it looks like a return to sheep farming would be a better way to go - there must be a better market for lamb these days - it's expensive enough. 

There isn't much money for the farmer in sheep any more- wool makes little return. The price paid to buy lamb is not reflected in what the farmer gets.

That's why my sheep/ cattle farmer friend has reduced the flock size by many hundreds if not thousands and diversified into Kiwifruit.

On 1/20/2023 at 11:36 PM, xylophone said:

Agree, and to quote an old American saying, "she was about as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip", this especially with the Labour Party shenanigans and the proposed "methane tax" and the "3 waters" bill, not to mention the increased crime rate, and poor policing, and Labour U-turns of late, and the list goes on......good riddance to her and Labour.

She made her reputation based on the covid response. But for that I suspect she would have been out 2 years ago. Took a while for the penny to drop, but it did drop.

I'd have liked for her to stay on just to see her after getting owned by National in the next elections.

 

I suspect she realised the game was up and got out early, so she didn't look as bad.

 

For now, I worry about what they will do before the Labour ship sinks in November.

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There isn't much money for the farmer in sheep any more- wool makes little return. The price paid to buy lamb is not reflected in what the farmer gets.

That's why my sheep/ cattle farmer friend has reduced the flock size by many hundreds if not thousands and diversified into Kiwifruit.

I know. The story said that dairy had become more profitable. But the cost of the pollution is high in all other ways - this has already affected lower reaches of rivers, nearly all of which eventually drain into the sea. Fertilizer run-off can deplete the oxygen in rivers careful and harmful algal blooms have wide-ranging effects on aquatic species that can be lethal too. 

 

South Island, in particular, is mostly rugged and a far more natural environment for sheep than cattle. I was hoping that the UK could help out and import more sheep again now we're out of the EU. We owe the Kiwis after all! ???? 

On 1/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, jak2002003 said:

No. I had not.  So basically farmers did not want to pay tax or clear up their act to stop polluting NZ's rivers or producing greenhouse gasses.  

There were many years when all sorts of fertilisers were put on the soil to make the grass grow and feed the cattle/dairy industry, however a few years ago the farmers started to clean up their act and many have made big strides to do this, however it's not that simple, but it is being done.

 

And if you really think about the greenhouse gas/burp tax you will realise that it's just for show because the Labour Party wanted to jump on that bandwagon – – if you sincerely believe they were serious then consider the following: –

 

There are 302 million cows in India, 94 million cows in the US and 4 million+ in NZ, so do you really think that taxing the NZ farmers for their cattle belches and farts is going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things – – not a chance.
 

20 minutes ago, xylophone said:

There were many years when all sorts of fertilisers were put on the soil to make the grass grow and feed the cattle/dairy industry, however a few years ago the farmers started to clean up their act and many have made big strides to do this, however it's not that simple, but it is being done.

 

And if you really think about the greenhouse gas/burp tax you will realise that it's just for show because the Labour Party wanted to jump on that bandwagon – – if you sincerely believe they were serious then consider the following: –

 

There are 302 million cows in India, 94 million cows in the US and 4 million+ in NZ, so do you really think that taxing the NZ farmers for their cattle belches and farts is going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things – – not a chance.
 

There's discussion about tax on cattle farmers in other countries as well.

 

Livestock generate significant amounts of methane, a greenhouse gas that is 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide in warming the planet. As the climate crisis intensifies, governments are studying ways to cut emissions and slow down global warming. One of the potential solutions is to impose a methane tax on cattle owners.

 

https://earth.org/methane-tax-on-cattle/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/20/tax-meat-cut-methane-emissions-scientists

 

 

Edited January 24, 20233 yr by ozimoron

42 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

There's discussion about tax on cattle farmers in other countries as well.

 

Livestock generate significant amounts of methane, a greenhouse gas that is 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide in warming the planet. As the climate crisis intensifies, governments are studying ways to cut emissions and slow down global warming. One of the potential solutions is to impose a methane tax on cattle owners.

 

https://earth.org/methane-tax-on-cattle/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/20/tax-meat-cut-methane-emissions-scientists

 

 

Yes I appreciate that, however I still go back to the fact that taxing farmers like that when there are only 4 million cows in New Zealand is not going to make one iota of difference.

 

And I thought about this just yesterday when I was driving into Phuket town and following several vans and trucks belching out black smoke, and it sort of put things into perspective for me.

 

Then look at the burning which takes place here and sometimes makes even breathing difficult, then glance across to the pollution in India and Indonesia, and little old New Zealand didn't really figure for me......(I am a Kiwi though!).
 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you actually know any NZ farmers? Seems not.

Why would I?  There are not a lot of them in Chiang Mai that I am aware of. Lol. 

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Yes I appreciate that, however I still go back to the fact that taxing farmers like that when there are only 4 million cows in New Zealand is not going to make one iota of difference.

 

And I thought about this just yesterday when I was driving into Phuket town and following several vans and trucks belching out black smoke, and it sort of put things into perspective for me.

 

Then look at the burning which takes place here and sometimes makes even breathing difficult, then glance across to the pollution in India and Indonesia, and little old New Zealand didn't really figure for me......(I am a Kiwi though!).
 

That's the same argument that climate change deniers make about Australia, that we create only 1.3% of the CO2 in the atmosphere so why should we do anything? The fact that we create more CO2 per capita than any other developed country because of coal mining escapes them. And that figure doesn't even include the CO2 from burning the product. I suspect that NZ's per capita CO2 contribution is high as well because of the farming, especially if you take into account the deforestation required to make pasture.