Many Pattaya Restaurant Owners Still Suffering from Financial Problems, Hope Chinese Tourists are the Solution

[sandyf]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:03 AM, jcmj said:

The Thai all you can eat Seafood restaurants are packed. Mostly locals but I’m sure that will change when the Chinese bus loads come back.

Why would it change?

In 20 odd years I have never been in a restaurant in Pattaya with Chinese in it. They are normally taken by bus to specific restaurants arranged for them.

Only restaurants that were dependent on the Chinese before will benefit from the return.

[sandyf]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:45 PM, wangotango said:

I always only eat a single plate as I am not a glutton, nothing to do with saving money ????

 

 

 

The Thais in fact are not a lot different, there is a bit of a false perception. When we go out to eat as a family the numbers can vary, but say there were 8 of us they would buy 8 plates of food and share it.

With the rice coming separately and all the food in the middle it just looks an awful lot more.

When it comes profit, It all depends what is on the plates, not a lot in rabbit food.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

add to that the Tree Town complex, and more staff than customers can only be sustained for so long. 

Nothing new about Tree Town, just reincarnated. Years ago it was a huge bar complex opposite Diana Estate going back to Skaw Beach.

First hotel I stayed in 1999 was Siam Sawasdee, had to change rooms, music from the bar complex went on right through the night.

How times have changed.

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Why would it change?

In 20 odd years I have never been in a restaurant in Pattaya with Chinese in it. They are normally taken by bus to specific restaurants arranged for them.

Only restaurants that were dependent on the Chinese before will benefit from the return.

No.

 

In normal times the restos in Central Festival and T21 have a LOT of Chinese in them. Last time I went into Sizzler, a lot were in there. OH--they weren't spitting on the floor as our bigots always stereotype. Very well-mannered, no mobbing the all-you-can-eat salad bar or other nonsense.

 

Local restos such as Maesriren on Beach Road always had Chinese coming in.

 

Guess we live in different towns, LOL.

 

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

These new malls may well attract some Chinese, not places I frequent.

Yes, they may well and do. But you wouldn't know, since you don't "frequent" the malls. No restos (or even Starbuck's, popular with Chinese) inside Central can be seen from your mate's bar in the complex on corner of Beach Road and Soi 9. LOL.

 

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Historically the herds have always moved around Pattaya by bus to designated venues, so as I said I have never come across them in over 20 years.

You're just fixated on "herds" per TAT: ANF and blowing without observing firsthand. As @newnativesays, independent travelers now make up a majority. "Designated venues" may include the malls. T21 has a special tour bus disembarkation area where tour buses w/ Chinese, and Indians, pull up all day and let out the tourists for shopping. Saw Chinese in T21 today. No doubt the buses also find a way to let out tourists for shopping at Central as well.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, newnative said:

Terminal 21 opened in 2018.  2019 saw nearly 11 million Chinese visitors, 61% not in tour groups.  Covid didn't start impacting tourism until early 2020.

I went into T21 about 3 months after it opened, deserted, never been back.

It doesn't matter what the figures say, it is what happens on the ground that counts, something I thought you were aware of.

Many do not realise that the figures on Chinese are skewed. A couple of times a year there is a huge influx of Chinese on a private basis and not destined for Pattaya or any other tourist area, although they may well pay a visit during the trip.

On the other side of the Chonburi bypass from us there is a Chinese graveyard that stretches for as far as the eye can see, one of many in the area. During the festivals, primarily Quing Ming, they all (in normal times) become canvas cities as visitors from the motherland come to visit deceased relatives.

In the 30's about 12% of Thailand's population were Chinese nationals, my wife's grandfather being one of them. The links between Thailand and China has nothing to do with tourism.

The temple at Ang Sila is well worth a visit.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, BigStar said:

No restos (or even Starbuck's, popular with Chinese) inside Central can be seen from your mate's bar in the complex on corner of Beach Road and Soi 9. LOL.

Obviously a newbie, that bar complex is now Central.

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts and replies hijacking the topic have been removed, topic is NOT about buying condos.

 

Here is the topic title again:

Many Pattaya Restaurant Owners Still Suffering from Financial Problems, Hope Chinese Tourists are the Solution

[newnative]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

I went into T21 about 3 months after it opened, deserted, never been back.

It doesn't matter what the figures say, it is what happens on the ground that counts, something I thought you were aware of.

Many do not realise that the figures on Chinese are skewed. A couple of times a year there is a huge influx of Chinese on a private basis and not destined for Pattaya or any other tourist area, although they may well pay a visit during the trip.

On the other side of the Chonburi bypass from us there is a Chinese graveyard that stretches for as far as the eye can see, one of many in the area. During the festivals, primarily Quing Ming, they all (in normal times) become canvas cities as visitors from the motherland come to visit deceased relatives.

In the 30's about 12% of Thailand's population were Chinese nationals, my wife's grandfather being one of them. The links between Thailand and China has nothing to do with tourism.

The temple at Ang Sila is well worth a visit.

       Again, I'll go with statistics rather than 1 person observations based on a single visit years ago.  If I was doing observations, I would trust mine over yours, based on numerous visits to T21 at various times of the year, at various times of the week, and at various times of the day.  

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Obviously a newbie, that bar complex is now Central.

Obviously still blind, there are no restos inside the bar complex, so in fact you never see customers of any nationality at your imaginary restos. And I had mentioned Central Festival (the mall, not your bar complex of the imagined same name) and you were talking about "the malls." Your mate's bar isn't named Central, by the way.

 

Here's the point again; write down and try to remember.

 

On 1/30/2023 at 5:19 PM, BigStar said:

In normal times the restos in Central Festival and T21 have a LOT of Chinese in them.

 

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

I went into T21 about 3 months after it opened, deserted, never been back.

Yes, but we're talking present day and the normal "year" of reference is 2019 when T21 was and had been open. So, without going back, you have no idea if Chinese are patronizing the restos and are stuck in a time warp.

 

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

It doesn't matter what the figures say, it is what happens on the ground that counts, something I thought you were aware of.

Quite so, and though I'm aware of what happens on the ground re: Chinese in restos, you aren't, while fatuously insisting you are. Simple as that.

 

I might also mention the seafood restos on Walking St., popular w/ Chinese. They don't actually all just parade down the street and back, contrary to our bigots.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by BigStar

[sandyf]

On 2/1/2023 at 1:12 PM, newnative said:

       Again, I'll go with statistics rather than 1 person observations based on a single visit years ago.  If I was doing observations, I would trust mine over yours, based on numerous visits to T21 at various times of the year, at various times of the week, and at various times of the day.  

My observations extend beyond T21, beyond Pattaya and beyond Thailands borders.

Of course you are perfectly free to believe all Chinese visitors are heading for Pattaya and T21.

[newnative]

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

My observations extend beyond T21, beyond Pattaya and beyond Thailands borders.

Of course you are perfectly free to believe all Chinese visitors are heading for Pattaya and T21.

      First thing that struck me when I read your post was "To the moon and back!"  Not sure why--it just flew into my head.  Thank you for misrepresenting what I said.  You and Leaver should do lunch.   For the record, I do not '...believe all Chinese visitors are heading for Pattaya and T21'.  However, in 2019, 61% of the Chinese visitors were traveling independently.  That comes to around 6.7 million.  What I do believe is that some of them, as well as some Chinese tourist groups, did, indeed, find their way to Pattaya and T21--and, likely will again.  

     Along with that, I also believe that some of the 1 million UK visitors in 2019 also found their way to Pattaya and T21.  Ditto for Americans, Europeans, etc.   From numerous visits to T21, and not just one visit years ago, it was my 'observation' that T21 was attracting an international mix of visitors--but, just my observation. 

    If you've spent any time in Pattaya in recent years you'll know that the area around T21 has become extremely popular with visitors--both international and domestic.  Several large, major hotels have opened there, including Mitt, Ozo, Grand Centre Point, Brighton, Centre Point Space, and others; to join the other large hotels already there, including Holiday Inn, Amari--with a new addition, Dusit, Discovery Beach--with a new wing, and A-01.  

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

My observations extend beyond T21, beyond Pattaya and beyond Thailands borders.

Wow. But not as far as Central Festival, one building over from your mate's Central bar. Or to Maesriruen, Thai resto just down from Central FESTIVAL. Or to the seafood restos of Walking St. To mention a few.

 

Maybe refocus the ol' telescope. We're discussing Pattaya, not the entire galaxy.

 

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course you are perfectly free to believe all Chinese visitors are heading for Pattaya and T21.

Troll straw man argument typical of the ignorant. Nobody said or implied any such "belief."

[BigStar]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

Thank you for misrepresenting what I said.  You and Leaver should do lunch.   

  I'm making the sign of the cross and sprinkling holy water . . . .

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

If you've spent any time in Pattaya in recent years you'll know that the area around T21 has become extremely popular with visitors--both international and domestic. 

I shall take your word for it..... since T21 and other construction efforts. I simply never go into that area... last time I was there it seemed sanitary and un-Thai like. And let's face it, traffic in the area was bad.....(can't be sure how it is more recently). For shopping, I find Big-CX better, and easier to get to, and one can park there and easily get to other areas. Not sure why tourists would be attracted to a shopping Mall....one that appears overpriced at that. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I shall take your word for it..... since T21 and other construction efforts. I simply never go into that area... last time I was there it seemed sanitary and un-Thai like. And let's face it, traffic in the area was bad.....(can't be sure how it is more recently). For shopping, I find Big-CX better, and easier to get to, and one can park there and easily get to other areas. Not sure why tourists would be attracted to a shopping Mall....one that appears overpriced at that. 

     So, in a nutshell, it's Yogi Berra's "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

[jacko45k]

36 minutes ago, newnative said:

     So, in a nutshell, it's Yogi Berra's "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

They must go for the automatic Japanese style bum wash toilets... they are pictorially represented as an attraction on Trip Advisor!

Edited February 4, 2023 by jacko45k

[newnative]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

At what cost to other areas?  This is what you continually refuse to address. 

    Addressed many times.  You simply don't like the narrative because it does not fit your often-stated view that Pattaya is not 'thriving' unless every single business is doing well.  So, you keep asking the same question over and over, hoping for a different answer.  Maybe go back and re-read my posts and those of others if you want something to do. 

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

No, not really. 

 

Your "survival of the fittest" theory doesn't take into account the empty buildings left sitting derelict. 

 

 

I've never suggested the sky would fall down on Pattaya..

 

I've always maintained there is an oversupply here, which leads to struggling businesses, and an under performing property market.  Much of which, is directly related to no property town planning here.  

 

Your narrative, on the other hand, and it must be noted you have financial interests in property here, is that every business us "thriving" here.  

 

 

No need.  It's the real estate sales pitch from you, over and over, even when the media interview business owners who say they are struggling, and there are thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market here.     

Still obsessed, I see.

[Siamwaz]

Disgusting patrons. If you are that desperate then good luck to you!

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Hardly obsessed. 

 

Just telling it the way it is, as per my observations. 

 

For example, thousands of properties on the market here, and you want to say the property market here is a healthy one, even when they are still building more.  Seriously? 

 

Who's the one obsessed, or should I say, has financial interests, thus a a conflict of interests in their posts?  It's clear for all to see. 

 

    Pity you don't ever go out and actually 'observe' anything other than this or that bar or restaurant in the small area you frequent.  You go on and on, post after post, about '...they are still building more.', yet you never go to the condo projects, as I've suggested, and check on how the sales are.  What's the percentage sold at Cetus?  Reflection?  the Rivieras?  Zire?  The Palm?  Northpoint?  Aeras?  Centric Sea?  The Base?   Edge?  Wong Amat Tower? Baan Plai Haad?  Arom Wong Amat?  Pattaya Posh?  Any idea? 

    Doubt you've been to any of the many new housing estates on the Darkside to check sales there, either.   Easier to pull up a realty website from your keyboard and see there are 'thousands' of listings and that's all there is to know--or learn.  No other 'observation' needed.

[newnative]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Pity you don't ever go out and observe bars and restaurants and nightclubs and gogo's etc etc etc here, then you might actually understand what's going on here.

 

 

The question really is, what's the percentage NOT SOLD elsewhere? 

 

Yes, thousands remain on the market, while they keep building more, and guess what, those that buy in new builds, will be unable to sell in the future, because their new build is now and old build, just like the old build they didn't want to buy when they were in the market, so both sit on the market, depreciating in value, for years, and so it continues, just like a Ponzi scheme. 

 

 

 

Glad you finally admitted there are thousands of properties on the market here.  So, how can you continue to say that the Pattaya property market is a healthy one? The oversupply is obvious.   

 

Oh, but some cheap Darkside sales will save the property market here.  

 

Totally clueless--especially your comment on 'cheap Darkside sales'.   You are really in the dark.  (small pun)  Totally clueless but, yet, still totally obsessed.   And, still sitting at the keyboard instead of doing any actual observation other than the bar areas.  Broaden your horizons.

[newnative]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It's you who is in denial, and are obsessed with trying to offload your remaining properties by trying to talk up the market on this forum.

 

I researched, thoroughly, foreign ownership of property in Thailand, and the Pattaya property market, some years ago, before deciding it was simply a waste of money, and renting was actually more profitable, less risk and a safer option, with freedom to move.

 

You have so much skin in the game you are blind to the reality.   You must be so desperate to continually talk it up on here, in the hope someone, anyone, could be a potential buyer for you.   

 

Once again, you call me clueless, yet you fail to explain to members reading this forum why there are thousands, yes thousands of properties on the market here, yet that has ZERO effect on market forces and property values.  It really is laughable.   

 

 

   Discussed many times.  You're just doing your Leaver Loop, which is still obsessed with property ownership even though you keep declaring it's not for you.   I'm not trying to 'offload' anything--I just posted I am using my 2 properties--to put a roof over my head.

[BigStar]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

However, there shouldn't be any struggling restaurant owners here, according to your posts.  So why is this restaurant owner saying in the media her restaurant is struggling, especially since "Pattaya is operating at capacity?"

I'm not wasting time in another Leaver Loop.

[newnative]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

If there is such a thing as a Leaver Loop, it's only to combat the newative loop of constant dribble about how Pattaya has a healthy property market. 

 

You offloaded two properties last year, did you not?

 

Are you really that desperate to keep a roof over your head? 

 

 

     With almost every post you always manage to put in some comment that I'm always hyping real estate in Pattaya with my posts--including this one from you.   The reality is, probably 75% of my posts talking about real estate are replies to your posts to me.  Yesterday and today there have been 9 of them alone. 

     The reality is, instead of hyping real estate, I am either answering your questions or correcting your posts with wildly bad misinformation.   This current post from you has both 2 dumb questions to answer and misinformation--so you hit the trifecta.   

    To wit.  Some recent past questions from you, to add to the above:

Why do developers keep building when there are 'thousands' of unsold properties?  (Asked many times.)

Do you live in both properties AT THE SAME TIME?

What is your advice for someone trying to sell a condo when there are 'thousands' on the market?

Isn't buying a property the same thing as being a real estate agent?

Why can't I grasp the concept of synergy when it's on display for me every time I visit Walking Street?  (Condensed by me for many of your business questions.)

Don't you have 'skin in the game'? (Asked many times.)

Why sell if property is such a great investment here?

Didn't you deny you were a property flipper, which is akin to a real estate agent? (asked several times.)

For example, thousands of properties on the market here, and you want to say the property market here is a healthy one, even when they are still building more.  Seriously?

Have you had any inquiries on the properties you have on the market lately? 

At what cost to other areas? (Asked many times.)

If you and your partner "are doing just fine" then why are you constantly talking up the property market here?  (Asked in various ways, many times.)

What do YOU give more weight to, TAT's stats, or the observation from people on the ground?

Who do you actually think you are selling property ownership in Pattaya to here? 

Everyone could see it was a bubble.  Why didn't you? 

If Pattaya has a healthy property market, why are there thousands of properties on the market here?  (Asked many times.)

 People just can't sell. 

Have you personally observed the amount of properties on the market here, and all the new construction? 

Did you personally observe the website? 

Perhaps you could try to explain it to the guy trying to sell his studio condo, I'm sure it matters more than a whit to him. What advice do you have for him, other than to offer it at 500k baht, accept a loss, and walk away?   (Asked several times.)

 How would the city of Pattaya look then, with shuttered building after shuttered building along many streets?  (Asked or commented on, many times.)

If Pattaya has a healthy property market, why are there thousands of properties on the market here?  (asked 'thousands' of times.)

 I have no idea if there were hamburger shops there pre or post McDonalds coming to Orlando.  Can you quote my post for this?  (Can't believe you 'forgot' your McDonalds quote, which I had to respond to it was so outrageous.)

When I post the same link in the future and the number of condo's for sale here have increased from 536, what will be your reply?  (Asked many times, variations of things getting worse for real estate in the future.)

     Most of the above are exact questions from you, just from the past month or so.  I haven't even listed all your misinformation posts I responded to--such as T21 opening 700 stores which resulted in 700 other older stores closing, for a net gain of 'zero'.

     One thing most evident from above is the infamous "Leaver Loop'--you asking a question, getting a response, and then you asking the question again, perhaps in a slightly different form, because you didn't agree with the answer.  Rinse and repeat in the endless Leaver Loop.   You even responded the other day when all I answered was 'Okey dokey'.  

    If you go back more than just the month or so I checked, you'll see most of the above questions asked before, many asked more than just once or twice.   And, many others you have asked me regarding real estate.  So, if I'm posting too much about real estate, you just have yourself to blame.  

 

 

[BigStar]

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

The BigStar Loop of denial is clear for all to see.

 

It must be fake news.  Right?   

Be comforted that the members must appreciate these utterly predictable cries of pain when you're deprived of the attention rub you imagine you're owed. You'll get over it: the supply of mugs here is endless.

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

Be comforted that the members must appreciate these utterly predictable cries of pain when you're deprived of the attention rub you imagine you're owed. You'll get over it: the supply of mugs here is endless.

 

Yawn.

 

As usual, you play the poster, not the post. 

 

Just your usual defection. 

[newnative]

29 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

You are always hyping real estate here.  If you didn't have any skin in the game, you wouldn't bother, but you do, and it show in your posts.

 

The rest of your post is your usual deflection from one of the main questions I keep asking you, which you refuse to reply to, because it doesn't fit your hyping narrative.

 

That question is, with thousands, yes thousands of properties on the market here, and with more being built and released all the time, how can you seriously claim there is no oversupply, and Pattaya has a healthy property market?  

 

The TOM (time on market) is ridiculous here, without a fire sale price. 

 

You hype up all the new condo blocks here, but never give a thought to the owner in an older condo block trying to sell.  Does your survival of the fittest theory extend to the property market as well? 

 

If we take into account the purchase price, and the cheap rents here because of an oversupply of housing, then add in an estimate of life expectancy for a retired expat, one is better of renting rather than buying, and that doesn't take into account fees and taxes, and maintenance and upgrades if owning. 

 

Not to mention, the bulk of the purchase price continually earning for you where it is safe, and at call, back in your home country.

 

Your posts on the Pattaya property market are akin to trying to sell a fridge to an eskimo.   

And, two more questions to add to the hundreds already answered, many more than once--as these have been.   And, once again, accusing me of 'hyping' real estate when I respond to your many posts directed specifically to me.  I rest my case.

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

You don't answer questions when you know the answer is critical of the property market here, as seen in you refusing, yet again, to answer my simple question in a previous post. 

 

You do hype the property market here.  That's not an accusation, that's a fact. 

  Your questions have been answered--you simply don't like or agree with the answers.   Go back and re-read my posts--some from a year or so ago.  Your retention of information is not good so you likely have forgotten answers you have been given.   You just asked me a question in another post regarding the number of properties I have on the market.  You forgot that you asked me the same question just a few days ago.  Maybe get tested for Alzheimer's?