Travel Isn't Much Fun Anymore

[PeaceBlondie]

Reflecting on my marathon trip to Ireland last month, it's hard to say that I enjoyed the travelling there and back. Once I got to my destination (for my son's wedding, a big family reunion), we had a good time. But even then, my baggage was lost for 3.5 days, with my medication! I had an overnight in Bangkok, Moscow, and London. I took one motorcycle, one bus, four taxis (and one cost $100!), nine airplanes, and one tuktuk. All the planes were economy class, and the only good food was on Thai Airways (farang food). It took me 3.5 days to get to Ireland, and the last plane (the one that couldn't keep track of my luggage) was delayed from 7 AM to 2 PM. If you must fly to Ireland, Aerlingus is now as bad as Ryan or even worse, which is the bottom of the barrel.

I'm going to stay home for a couple of years. I've used up my FF miles anyway, and it's not worth the hassle. I'm glad we took the trip to Angkor Wat by land, even though it was rough and lengthy.

One more thing. I'm neither rich nor poor, but travel through Europe is incredibly expensive. A meal for about 7 adults and two children cost 143 euros in Ireland. In MaeHongSon, I must have fed 14 Thais at a restaurant for 1,500 baht. 100 euros for moderate lodgings, without air con.

Maybe I'm just getting old. Maybe I've gotten enough stamps in my passports to last a lifetime. Maybe air travel just ain't worth the traffic getting there, two hours early, the flight delays, the cramped seats, four lost luggage events in ten years, etc. Maybe I've seen the world enough that Jakarta would resemble Mexico City. Maybe my backpacking years (aged 55 to 64) are over.

[peter991]

PB: I think as we get older we become more set in our ways. There isn't a great deal we want to know or learn. I know when I was younger (I'm 53 now), I used to love travelling. Now, the 4 times a year travelling between Australia and Thailand is getting me down. If it was easy for Thais to travel to Australia, I'd stay in Oz semi-permanently and let him visit me.

Peter

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks for replying to the post by the old fuddy-duddy. 52 people viewed it without commenting! I guess I was ranting or rambling.

So, questions for the audience: do you find modern air travel to be highly frustrating, time consuming, full of hassles, and expensive? Does the accumulation of delayed flights, cramped quarters, expensive airports, bad connecting times, poor food, etc., add up to making you wish you'd walked?

[wileycoyote]

Thanks for replying to the post by the old fuddy-duddy. 52 people viewed it without commenting! I guess I was ranting or rambling.

So, questions for the audience: do you find modern air travel to be highly frustrating, time consuming, full of hassles, and expensive? Does the accumulation of delayed flights, cramped quarters, expensive airports, bad connecting times, poor food, etc., add up to making you wish you'd walked?

Yes ,it is now more stressful and there are more underlying hassles.

There is no way that frequent flyer points can make up for the fact,that the passenger seems to be a burden on the average day of a flight steward.

Wiley Coyote

[eek]

Not much a great fan of airports either, but if the alternative options are too time consuming I will gen fly.

When i was living in London, friends and family didnt understand why I prefered to take the train up to Scotland to visit rather than fly with cheapo airlines. Just seemed more of a hassle. When I thought about getting transport to heathrow,gatwick, or stansted, hanging around for 2 hours, (esp doing the whole liquid check malarky), versus getting the tube or a taxi to the trainstation 15-30 mins or so before it leaves and knowing that if i missed the train i could prob transfer to another one, the train won hands down. Book a nice seat or overnight cabin on the train, then relax and read for the journey. God so much better in my view.

If the Thai trains had internet (saddo addict that i am) I would be in heaven. Could happily enjoy passing the days travelling, so long as i had my net, books, and an interesting view.

As for travelling in general, well I like it..but only if i can settle in a place for a while. To be perfectly honest i think i would make a pathetic backpacker (at least a pathetic solo backpacker). I dont mind the unfamiliar but prefer to be prepared.

Not really sure if much of what i have written relates to your OP pb, but as i read your thread earlier and i am one of those 52 viewers i thought i would leave my thoughts and let you know that I found your post interesting (just did not know what to reply). In any case, if what you wrote is considered rambling, then most of the books I enjoy most consist of ramblings. I think a persons running thoughts can sometimes be the most wonderful way to gain insight on their perspective of things.

Edited July 2, 2007 by eek

[expatwannabe]

Thanks for replying to the post by the old fuddy-duddy. 52 people viewed it without commenting! I guess I was ranting or rambling.

So, questions for the audience: do you find modern air travel to be highly frustrating, time consuming, full of hassles, and expensive? Does the accumulation of delayed flights, cramped quarters, expensive airports, bad connecting times, poor food, etc., add up to making you wish you'd walked?

If I have the money, I go business or first. It doesn't help with delays, but it helps a lot with what to do between flights and with comfort. The Thai executive lounges in ChiangMai and Bangkok are first rate - free Internet, food, drinks, TV, newspapers, magazines. And cushy seats.

And on international flights, they just kiss your a** more when you're going business. Funny, because the only tickets they usually make money on are economy tickets - business and first class passengers are subsidized by economy fares.

About 4 years ago, my partner and I flew one-way BKK-CNX on Thai in economy. We felt like cattle.

On the other hand, when we flew Thai first to Hong Kong, the gate agent filled out our customs forms for us and escorted us through. I thought, "so this is what it's like to be a VIP in Thailand."

Edited July 2, 2007 by expatwannabe

[eek]

When i was 16, because of family circumstances at the time, I attended an International School in Switzerland. I remember flying Swiss Air either club or business class. I can tell you now...that is definately something the Air Hostesses did NOT like. Seating and serving a 16 year old (and i was into rock at the time..gawd..so a lot of mad hair, studded belts and stupid boots) amongst the one or two well dressed business men and ladies was not their cup of tea.

(but..i loved it at the time when some snooty hostess would stop me at the business class entrance or automatically point me in the direction of economy only for me to pull out my ticket and watch her swallow hard. Appearances can often be deceiving. Now..i look more the part as such, but dont really have the funds for first! Typical )

Edited July 2, 2007 by eek

[JimmyTheMook]

About 4 years ago, my partner and I flew one-way BKK-CNX on Thai in economy. We felt like cattle.

That flight is all over in about 1.5 hours and when I recently took that route it was more than half empty due the all the other discount airlines that have popped up.

I still enjoy hitting the road every so often , travel can be a drag and very expensive if you have gotten used to Thai prices.

Want a trip to Japan , wonder how much that will cost me?

[think_too_mut]

Funny, because the only tickets they usually make money on are economy tickets - business and first class passengers are subsidized by economy fares.

Where did you get that from?

All world's airlines make their best money on 10+ hours flights that entitle biz travelers to biz class, their company pays.

From Sydney to Boston, I can go economy on 2000US$. But company pays 6000US$ biz class.

[expatwannabe]

Where did you get that from?

All world's airlines make their best money on 10+ hours flights that entitle biz travelers to biz class, their company pays.

From Sydney to Boston, I can go economy on 2000US$. But company pays 6000US$ biz class.

You can go $2,000 economy because you can find discount rates. Business is almost never discounted. They want to fill the seats as much as possible in economy because they're so cheap per person. But the volume adds up to paying for most of the trip.

Anyway, the reason is because

1) economy passengers take up 1/2 the space of business - narrower seats w/ narrower aisles allowing more abreast, less recline, closer together allowing more front-to-back

2) in addition to space savings, the expensive seats cost more in maintenance

2) amenities are different, usually one video screen on every seat vs. a few overhead projectors serving a cabin

3) more expensive food, more of it, served more often, additional snacks

4) flight attendant to passenger ratio is much higher

5) it's difficult/almost impossible to fill the first class and business sections, so the airlines have rewards points and other promotions to get them filled; that means, though, that the business section has a lot of people paying less than full price; the airlines have to offer these seats, though, in order to attract frequent and business fliers; but since they can't fill them all with full-price-paying customers, they're subsidized by the economy customers

I read a statistic once (sorry I don't have a link) that United needed at least 95% capacity in order to break even on a flight, while Southwest needed only 60%. The reason was varied, of course, involving United's high employee compensation and wide network of flights. Southwest, on the other hand, could cherry-pick the routes it wanted. But a great deal of the difference had to do with Southwest's business model - all economy seating, and none of it assigned. So passengers just line up at the gate and pile in.

Edited July 2, 2007 by expatwannabe

[think_too_mut]

Just last nite I spoke to some US Toyota factory workers who came to the only Western pub in Toyota City.

On their North West flight to Nagoya, all 44 biz class seats were - them. On 7000US$ each.

IMO, the entire economy class could have flown for free.

[enyaw]

I'm going to stay home for a couple of years. I've used up my FF miles anyway, and it's not worth the hassle. I'm glad we took the trip to Angkor Wat by land, even though it was rough and lengthy.

Make your mind up, after your Angkor Wat escapade you told us you wish you had flown instead!

[Gary A]

I also hate to travel. If someone gave my an all expense paid trip around the world, I'd give it to someone who would enjoy it because I certainly wouldn't. I have my once every two year duty visit back to the US but wish I didn't have to do that. I also HATE fancy hotels. Give me a little mom and pop hotel anytime. I'd rather have a bowl of noodles off the street than dress up to go to a fancy restaurant. Once in a while I enjoy driving somewhere here in Thailand and staying a few days. I have traveled long distance enough to last me the rest of my life.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm going to stay home for a couple of years. I've used up my FF miles anyway, and it's not worth the hassle. I'm glad we took the trip to Angkor Wat by land, even though it was rough and lengthy.

Make your mind up, after your Angkor Wat escapade you told us you wish you had flown instead!

You're right, enyaw! Those roads in western Cambodia were rough. Maybe I'm hard to please now. However, the round trip airfare for two people Bangkok-Siem Reap was very expensive.

[justwilliam]

I must say I can empathize with PeaceBlondie.

I spent the 1970's flying economy around Europe (from London), mostly overnight trips between capitals -- depart one evening, return the next. I remember vividly those rear-engined things that BA used to fly that terrified me by descending nose-up. I spent the 1980's flying around the US (from San Francisco) in the back of those wretched narrow-bodied flying buses. And I spent the 1990's flying back and forth across the Pacific and around Asia, usually in 747 business class, IMHO a generally pleasant experience (I flew more than one million actual flight miles on United, for which they awarded me lifetime Premier Executive status).

Most of my friends and colleagues thought I lived a glamorous lifestyle. If only they knew.

I always thought I might spend some part of my retirement travelling to the places I hadn't seen, or revisiting places where I had previously only seen the inside of taxis and conference rooms. But it isn't so.

These days, although I still go to the US twice a year to see my children -- no mean feat, since the return trip alone from my son's house in Maine to home in Hua Hin takes more than 40 hours travel time, involving three flight segments, three buses, a taxi and a tuk-tuk -- otherwise I am loathe to make any journey that takes more than one hour, especially if it involves my driving myself.

[Luckydog]

I hear what you are saying PB. I am no longer into flying for hours and hours, to wherever.....

For 35yrs as a Documentary Film Director working in UK. I was always flying somewhere. One trip I did 21 Planes in 50 Days....ugh! But it never bothered me. In fact I was usually excited by the prospect of going to some place I had never been to to meet new peeps etc.

BUT, now I can't stand being in the confined space of an aeroplane. Last time I went back to UK I had terrible claustrophobia! Where did that come from Pray?

So no more 12hr trips to England for ANYTHING!

I wouldn't even fly from Pattaya to Chang Mai.........

[khall64au]

I must admit, am getting bored with travel too. Travel was once my life. If I wasn't travelling, I was dreaming about it and saving toward it. Now I work it and live it. I once dreamed about travel writing for a living. I achieved that dream but now I'm bored. And I think I know why - it has become a GLOBAL INDUSTRY!

These days, nowhere is safe from the travel industry. Not even Outer Mongolia or deepest Antarctica. Planet Earth has shrunk, travel is not an adventure any more it's just another cog in the wheel. High numbers, short-term profits. Please move your elbows sir, you're digging me in the ribs!

[Tinkelbell]

I'm going to stay home for a couple of years. I've used up my FF miles anyway, and it's not worth the hassle. I'm glad we took the trip to Angkor Wat by land, even though it was rough and lengthy.

Make your mind up, after your Angkor Wat escapade you told us you wish you had flown instead!

You're right, enyaw! Those roads in western Cambodia were rough. Maybe I'm hard to please now. However, the round trip airfare for two people Bangkok-Siem Reap was very expensive.

I use to travel quite a bit. Going places for sightseeings in foreign lands. Like you, now I find it's very tiresome. Talking about jet-lag, it takes days for me to be ready to explore the site. PB, I know you were from the states, have you ever experienced the problem with the time-zone ? Even within the US I still face it. Remember the trip to Hawaii a few years back, at that time me & hubby lived in NY, HI is 5 hr. behinds NY, so by the time I was waiting for a dinner table at one of the very popular

tourist restaurant in Waikiki around seven in the evening, I was absolutely passed out in the bar lounge ( I'm a none-drinker), so embarassed. But my body still thought it was midnight (NY time by then).

About Angkhor Wat, took one almost 2 yr ago, it costed less than $380 for 3 days 2 nights, including 3-4 stars accommodation , airfare to & from BK, 3 meals a day, it's inclusive tour. There are load of packaged tour from TL to Angkhor Wat, I found my tour from the local newspaper. Give it a thought.

[cdnvic]

I used to thrive on complicated adventurous travel, now I'm willing to trade cash for simplicity. I'll pay extra for flights with less stopovers as I've come to find that saving money on charters and low cost airlines are often a false economy. There is a dollar value on comfort, convenience, and simplicity.

[Nignoy]

Thanks for replying to the post by the old fuddy-duddy. 52 people viewed it without commenting! I guess I was ranting or rambling.

So, questions for the audience: do you find modern air travel to be highly frustrating, time consuming, full of hassles, and expensive? Does the accumulation of delayed flights, cramped quarters, expensive airports, bad connecting times, poor food, etc., add up to making you wish you'd walked?

well you have!! dented our confidence, we embark on our 5 yearly jaunt in September, touring asia and europe for nearly 5 months, avoiding UK of course, the rellies that want to see us are visiting us in switzerland or germany,we always arrange these trips our selves, researching places we want to visit,and being disabled pensioners ,we have to really know, how to dig out the bargains,I think this will be our last big driving holiday, and wifey is talking about selling our motor bikes that we keep with friends in Don muang, was a bit hairy last time we rode from Ubon to singapore so it looks like huahin to Beijing will be a no no in 2 years time,sadly gone are the days when we could hire a taxi from don muang for a week for 100 quid, pay for the drivers petrol and grub and tour thailand, of course the only foreigners in phuket then were sailors in the old harbour at phuket town,of course travelling has got to be an expensive inconvenience, and some of airport peronnel and aircrew leave a lot to be desired, having a colourful past does not help in these paranoid days , and then of course with my implants and pacemaker and other metal body bits I always have the fun of a hands on body search to look forward to and replying to your last query walking is not so good legs are knackered Nignoy

[madjbs]

I hate flying, especially short distances where you end up spending ages waiting around in airports not traveling anywhere. If your ever thinking of flying from BKK to CM I would seriously consider taking a V.I.P bus instead which I almost found enjoyable!

The seats are massive and you have loads of space, they also recline enough so you can sleep easily. The food on the bus is not as good though so make sure you stock up before you leave the bus terminal. Half way you stop and get off the bus for a stretch and some great Thai food which comes included in the ticket. The Long routes are nearly all overnight so you can have a good sleep and not miss any holiday time.

Jake

[ballbreaker]

I hate flying also but you picked the routing that took 3.5 days. Surely they was a much shorter route you could have picked. I would have thought a flight from Bangkok to London and then Ireland would have been possible in less then one day.

[Naam]

Thanks for replying to the post by the old fuddy-duddy. 52 people viewed it without commenting! I guess I was ranting or rambling.

So, questions for the audience: do you find modern air travel to be highly frustrating, time consuming, full of hassles, and expensive? Does the accumulation of delayed flights, cramped quarters, expensive airports, bad connecting times, poor food, etc., add up to making you wish you'd walked?

no you were not. i feel the same and it doesn't make any difference that i don't fly economy. ten years ago i didn't mind travelling half around the world in one go. now even a non-stop flight to Europe is a big hassle.

[Luckydog]

I can never understand why peeps look for Non-stop long distance Flights?

Long stop overs are hel_l. But an hour or so back on terra firma is a joy when enduring a long flight surely.....

Also. What a slog to and from the Bluddy Airports?

I would rather fly to the Airport and take a Taxi to my destination, were it possible.......

[samtam]

I agree that flying nowadays (for me at least), is a complete hassle. For long distance I use business class, but even that is a pain. All of this is made worse by the tightened security measures, (vide those imposed in UK over the w/e, whereby you cannot be dropped off at the terminal). I used to fly to UK/Europe in the summer, but decided that it was when most others were doing the same, and the likelihood of delays seems greater. Not only that, I also agree that travelling in Europe is hideously expensive, (especially when compared to LOS), and the quality of hotels, service etc is laughable compared to Asia.

But the good news is that if we all stop flying so frequently we'll be reducing our carbon footprints.

[0Mix1up]

not for me

>dangerous drivers in the extreme, falling asleep at 3/4am and wandering into oncoming traffic a number of times with me the only one awake yelling at the driver, all the thais in slumberland, me a nervous wreck.

>time warp 300ks in 8hrs? zigzag? once we were on a dual highway and for no apparent reason the driver would travel at 40kmh for a few ks then speed up to 130 and then repeat, had me baffled, no traffic good roads etc..

>horrible dirty airco blowing, you seen the black crap around the outlets, blow your nose after 8 hrs on one, soot factory.

>blarringly loud TV music, nothing new there!

planes or trains or cars or bikes even

I hate flying, especially short distances where you end up spending ages waiting around in airports not traveling anywhere. If your ever thinking of flying from BKK to CM I would seriously consider taking a V.I.P bus instead which I almost found enjoyable!

The seats are massive and you have loads of space, they also recline enough so you can sleep easily. The food on the bus is not as good though so make sure you stock up before you leave the bus terminal. Half way you stop and get off the bus for a stretch and some great Thai food which comes included in the ticket. The Long routes are nearly all overnight so you can have a good sleep and not miss any holiday time.

Jake

back ot

long haul is ugly

Melb to Bkk is as far as I want in any one trip.

[jackspratt]

Where did you get that from?

All world's airlines make their best money on 10+ hours flights that entitle biz travelers to biz class, their company pays.

From Sydney to Boston, I can go economy on 2000US$. But company pays 6000US$ biz class.

You can go $2,000 economy because you can find discount rates. Business is almost never discounted. They want to fill the seats as much as possible in economy because they're so cheap per person. But the volume adds up to paying for most of the trip.

Anyway, the reason is because

1) economy passengers take up 1/2 the space of business - narrower seats w/ narrower aisles allowing more abreast, less recline, closer together allowing more front-to-back

2) in addition to space savings, the expensive seats cost more in maintenance

2) amenities are different, usually one video screen on every seat vs. a few overhead projectors serving a cabin

3) more expensive food, more of it, served more often, additional snacks

4) flight attendant to passenger ratio is much higher

5) it's difficult/almost impossible to fill the first class and business sections, so the airlines have rewards points and other promotions to get them filled; that means, though, that the business section has a lot of people paying less than full price; the airlines have to offer these seats, though, in order to attract frequent and business fliers; but since they can't fill them all with full-price-paying customers, they're subsidized by the economy customers

I read a statistic once (sorry I don't have a link) that United needed at least 95% capacity in order to break even on a flight, while Southwest needed only 60%. The reason was varied, of course, involving United's high employee compensation and wide network of flights. Southwest, on the other hand, could cherry-pick the routes it wanted. But a great deal of the difference had to do with Southwest's business model - all economy seating, and none of it assigned. So passengers just line up at the gate and pile in.

I am easily confused, but what you say just doesn't make sense to me.

If more money is being made from economy passengers, why do the (major) airlines bother having business and 1st class seats?

[enyaw]

not for me

>dangerous drivers in the extreme, falling asleep at 3/4am and wandering into oncoming traffic a number of times with me the only one awake yelling at the driver, all the thais in slumberland, me a nervous wreck.

>time warp 300ks in 8hrs? zigzag? once we were on a dual highway and for no apparent reason the driver would travel at 40kmh for a few ks then speed up to 130 and then repeat, had me baffled, no traffic good roads etc..

>horrible dirty airco blowing, you seen the black crap around the outlets, blow your nose after 8 hrs on one, soot factory.

>blarringly loud TV music, nothing new there!

planes or trains or cars or bikes even

I hate flying, especially short distances where you end up spending ages waiting around in airports not traveling anywhere. If your ever thinking of flying from BKK to CM I would seriously consider taking a V.I.P bus instead which I almost found enjoyable!

The seats are massive and you have loads of space, they also recline enough so you can sleep easily. The food on the bus is not as good though so make sure you stock up before you leave the bus terminal. Half way you stop and get off the bus for a stretch and some great Thai food which comes included in the ticket. The Long routes are nearly all overnight so you can have a good sleep and not miss any holiday time.

Jake

back ot

long haul is ugly

Melb to Bkk is as far as I want in any one trip.

Bangkok to Chiang Mai, it's deffinetly got to be a first class sleeper on the night train. Can never get to sleep on the bus, the roads too bumpy, air conditioning is to harsh and that tv show they always have on (5 buffoons on a stage) dont know what it's called but it farkin cracks everone up, what's it all about and getting woken up from pretending to sleep to go and buy something from the bus drivers sisters shop in Pitsanulok or wherever? Nope, it's got to be the gentle rock of the night train.

[Naam]

I can never understand why peeps look for Non-stop long distance Flights?

i don't mind non-stop flights because i sleep 11 hours out of a 12 hour flight. i can't understand people who rave about inflight entertainment or boobs and butts of a mixed crew. give me some hors d’œuvre, a huge big warm cognac, don't wake me up for breakfast and YES i am buckled up Lady, no need to wake me up before landing. just push the button to bring my seat in upright position.

[PeaceBlondie]

As science fiction writers say, "We are not alone." Here's this morning's star entry on the front page of Yahoo, written by a travel writer, no less: The fear of Not Flying http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20070702...of_not_flying_1