Joint Bank Account--widow refused access

[Liquorice]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No reason for the Embassy to discuss it with him as a third party.

True, but having explained the issue, they have Thai staff that can advise the widow.

 

The first advice that I'd follow, that the BE listed, is to ask the bank 'exactly' what they require as proof of her husbands' death.
 

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Before applying for one of our services contact the relevant Thai authority to find out what you need. This could be the local district office (amphur/amphoe), immigration office, ministries or another authority in Thailand, the UK or a third country.

 

 

[Kwasaki]

Lawyer letter to the head of branches bank in Bangkok making them aware that someone is prepared to help the lady from bank branch manages obstruction. 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Lawyer letter to the head of branches bank in Bangkok making them aware that someone is prepared to help the lady from bank branch manages obstruction. 

Wow, the people in the head office will be duly impressed and will do everything right away to do what the customer wants - or maybe not? 

[Liverpool Lou]

12 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

The first advice that I'd follow, that the BE listed, is to ask the bank 'exactly' what they require as proof of her husbands' death.

Apparently they have got what they need and are checking it out...years after they should have been notified...that is probably what is causing the investigation and that's the widow's fault, not the bank's.

[Liquorice]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Lawyer letter to the head of branches bank in Bangkok making them aware that someone is prepared to help the lady from bank branch manages obstruction. 

They'll take no notice of a lawyer's letter.
She'd need to sign a POA for the OP to conduct affairs on her behalf.

 

My wife has POA to access my account and a Thai Will along with a Thai death certificate, Bangkok Bank assure me funds would immediately be released to my spouse in the event of my death on production of those documents.

 

At minimum, the lady in question will require a Court Order to release said funds to her, after proof she alone is entitled to said funds.

[prakhonchai nick]

All duly noted

 

The widow was assisted by her UK based son-in law, who clearly did not advise the Thai bank, nor instruct her to do so.

 

She will now have to comply with whatever the bank want. However, when provided with the original UK death certificate and Thai translation, they supposedly just told her both documents needed to be notarised by a Thai notary. If that was incorrect advice, then the bank will be liable for her unwarranted costs in having the documents notarised.

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Wow, the people in the head office will be duly impressed and will do everything right away to do what the customer wants - or maybe not? 

EMS sent lawyer letter and having to wait while the branch bank ponce about is better than doing nothing.

[Liquorice]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Apparently they have got what they need and are checking it out...years after they should have been notified...that is probably what is causing the investigation and that's the widow's fault, not the bank's.

No, they have an unauthenticated UK death certificate and a translation certified by a Thai lawyer.
They're checking out the Death certificate is genuine along with if anyone else is entitled to the estate, as @OneMoreFarang pointed out.

[yeahbutif]

1 hour ago, userabcd said:

Once again proves money in a bank account is not owned by the ones whose names are on the account and whose money is deposited in the account.

 

Wish there was some legal practical way to have our personal money/savings held outside of banks and investment institutions.

I agree I was looking into an idea that I have seen called pod or tod. Transfer on death.  This means a person put on to a bank account and call only get money on a person's death with no probate process..  but a gain I was told do do in my bank and told to add a Joint name... This oversly don't work either..... Think the manages who work in the bank are no more then a caretaker. .no nothing about the real Banking system.. and would rather say no have .then show incompetence

[Liquorice]

3 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

She will now have to comply with whatever the bank want. However, when provided with the original UK death certificate and Thai translation, they supposedly just told her both documents needed to be notarised by a Thai notary. If that was incorrect advice, then the bank will be liable for her unwarranted costs in having the documents notarised.

Thailand doesn't have Notaries as such, they have lawyers approved to act as a Notary.
I suspect what they told her is the document and translation must be 'legalised' by the MFA to be acceptable.

 

No different from affidavits to marry or foreign diplomas to be accepted in Thailand.

[Kwasaki]

10 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

They'll take no notice of a lawyer's letter.
She'd need to sign a POA for the OP to conduct affairs on her behalf.

 

My wife has POA to access my account and a Thai Will along with a Thai death certificate, Bangkok Bank assure me funds would immediately be released to my spouse in the event of my death on production of those documents.

 

At minimum, the lady in question will require a Court Order to release said funds to her, after proof she alone is entitled to said funds.

Take notice or not always be seen to be doing something in case it gets messes instead of nowt. 

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Also check the small print to see what the banks policy on surviving signatories in the event of one or the other's early passing?

 

It's not a 'Thailand thing' either. When my father passed away in Scotland, there was quite a bit of a paper chasing for mum to maintain access to the funds in the joint account they held at the same branch for 56 years. A branch where their ONLY banking transactions were personal walk-in jobs. The staff were duly respectful but their rules insisted that the paper trail be completed before she could become the sole account holder. At that juncture, we decided that my sister obtain power of attorney for mum's estate and that helped immensely with withdrawing money and closing the account when she also passed away a few years later.

 

All mandates cease on death.

 

In the UK a joint account does not form part of the deceased's estate and the survivor is entitled to the residual balance under the rules of survivorship.

[Liquorice]

12 minutes ago, yeahbutif said:

I agree I was looking into an idea that I have seen called pod or tod. Transfer on death.  This means a person put on to a bank account and call only get money on a person's death with no probate process..  but a gain I was told do do in my bank and told to add a Joint name...

For Immigration purposes, the account must be in the foreigner's sole name.
You can add a person to your account though by signing a Power of Attorney form that the bank provides, which gives them access to your account, but on statements, letters etc, only your name appears.
Hell, Bangkok bank even gave my spouse a separate debit card for my account when I gave her POA.

 

To navigate through the Thai Inheritance laws of succession after death, a simple Will suffices as to who inherits the deceased estate and avoids the probate process. (Unless someone contests the Will).

[OneMoreFarang]

24 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

the bank will be liable for her unwarranted costs in having the documents notarised

Sorry, I have to laugh when I read comments like that.

What will you/she do? Tell the bank: Pay 10,000B for those unwarranted costs or we go to court? And if the bank doesn't pay that (within a week), what will you do? Hire a lawyer and go to court?

555

[OneMoreFarang]

25 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

EMS sent lawyer letter and having to wait while the branch bank ponce about is better than doing nothing.

And who pays for the lawyer? And imagine if the bank writes a response and the lawyer has to answer that. More time for the lawyer, a bigger bill for the lawyer. For what? 

[Liquorice]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

In the UK a joint account does not form part of the deceased's estate and the survivor is entitled to the residual balance under the rules of survivorship.

We're not in the UK. Different Country, different laws.
https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/inheritance-laws-thailand.html

[hotandsticky]

17 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

We're not in the UK. Different Country, different laws.
https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/inheritance-laws-thailand.html

 

 

I was replying to someone who was referring to Scotland.

 

Are you saying that the Civil & Commercial Code (or even the Thai banks themselves) does NOT apply the rule of survivorship  ?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by hotandsticky

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

For Immigration purposes, the account must be in the foreigner's sole name.

"the account"?

People can have multiple accounts with different arrangements.

[prakhonchai nick]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sorry, I have to laugh when I read comments like that.

What will you/she do? Tell the bank: Pay 10,000B for those unwarranted costs or we go to court? And if the bank doesn't pay that (within a week), what will you do? Hire a lawyer and go to court?

555

Worth a try..If you don't ask, you don't get.

[DrJoy]

2 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

She went alone. A Thai lawyer/notary public notarised the translated document and the orignial UK death certificate.

Wrong.

The UK death certificate has to be stamped by the British Embassy in Bangkok + Thai MFA Chaengwattana.

 

or 

 

to be stamped by the Royal Thai Embassy in London + Thai MFA Chaengwattana.

 

Thailand is not a signatory to The Hague Convention for Apostille

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wonder if that is true.

I.e. if there was a million dollar in that account, the husband or they together had kids. Then (at least for some nationalities) the kids will inherit some of that money. Like: 1 million assets for husband and wife together, husband dies, his half (0.5 million) will be inherited by his wife and his children - not just his wife!

Obviously there might be lots of other details, but you get the idea. 

What nationalities are there that don't apply the rule of survivorship on joint accounts?

[Liquorice]

6 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Wrong.

The UK death certificate has to be stamped by the British Embassy in Bangkok + Thai MFA Chaengwattana.

 

or 

 

to be stamped by the Royal Thai Embassy in London + Thai MFA Chaengwattana.

As I've been stating.
There is a legal procedure to follow to have foreign documents authenticated to be acceptable as genuine by Thai authorities.

[Sheryl]

The only way to be certain of the status of things and what, if anything, is further required is for her or her son to call the Bank HQ. They will then discuss with the branch and let them know definitively.  

 

It is not at all unusual in Thailand for bank branches to make up their own rules and also not unusual for staff to stall when confronted with anything they are unsure about or don't know how to do. Especially if customer is meek about it.

 

Which bank is this? 

 

 

[Thalueng]

When an account holder dies, be it joint or individual account, access to this account must be put on hold until the bank has verified who is the legal heir. I cannot see anything wrong with the banks approach, rather the widow did not act correctly as she did not inform the bank at time of death. In absence of a will and testament this could or could not be the deceased's wife or her alone.

 

You can avoid this by opening a bank account on your wife's or gf's name alone. If you must, establish a power of attorney to access that bank account for you.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Apparently they have got what they need and are checking it out...years after they should have been notified...that is probably what is causing the investigation and that's the widow's fault, not the bank's.

No, they have an unauthenticated UK death certificate and a translation certified by a Thai lawyer.
They're checking out the Death certificate is genuine along with if anyone else is entitled to the estate, as @OneMoreFarang pointed out.

Yes, I know, that's why I posted that the bank is investigating, the widow may have "inadvertently" committed fraud.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Lawyer letter to the head of branches bank in Bangkok making them aware that someone is prepared to help the lady from bank branch manages obstruction. 

Lawyers letter to the widow making her aware that years ago she was obligated to inform the bank of the death of the joint account holder.  If she'd done that at the time she would not have the issue that she has now.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

My wife has POA to access my account and a Thai Will along with a Thai death certificate, Bangkok Bank assure me funds would immediately be released to my spouse in the event of my death on production of those documents.

Whoever in the bank advised you of that clearly doesn't know that on the death of the donor (you, in your case) a POA ceases to be valid.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, prakhonchai nick said:

If that was incorrect advice, then the bank will be liable for her unwarranted costs in having the documents notarised.

Yeah, right.  

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, yeahbutif said:

I agree I was looking into an idea that I have seen called pod or tod. Transfer on death.  This means a person put on to a bank account and call only get money on a person's death with no probate process..  but a gain I was told do do in my bank and told to add a Joint name... This oversly don't work either..... Think the manages who work in the bank are no more then a caretaker. .no nothing about the real Banking system.. and would rather say no have .then show incompetence

Gawd...

[Liverpool Lou]

58 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

You can add a person to your account though by signing a Power of Attorney form that the bank provides, which gives them access to your account, but on statements, letters etc, only your name appears.
Hell, Bangkok bank even gave my spouse a separate debit card for my account when I gave her POA.

And when you die your POA dies at the same time also.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Liverpool Lou