Climate Change

[Misab]

Climate Change

 

Did we pass the point of no return a long time ago?

Let’s look at facts.

According to climate scientists, will an average increase in temperature of only 7 degrees Celsius make large parts of the globe uninhabitable for humans, and this will happen gradually. The UN's climate models showed in 2019 that strong improvements must be made to CO2 emissions. If this does not happen, then the average air temperature on Earth in the year 2100 will have risen by approximately 3 degrees C. worldwide, and between 7 and 12 degrees for the polar regions, which are warming faster than the rest of the Earth.

An increase in air temperature of just 4 degrees would deplete most plants' underground reservoirs of water, making it difficult to grow crops.

 

China, India, Thailand and many others goal is to have a zero emission of CO2 about the year 2060.

Will politicians around the world facing a huge awakening when it dawns on them that we have already missed the opportunity to stop climate change? Or do they just not care because it won't be their problem? No one knows exactly how many years CO2 remains in the atmosphere. But according to Nasa.org and others, it is expected to take between 300 and 1,000 years before it is broken down.

Royalsociety.org writes: Quote:

“Surface temperatures will remain high for at least a thousand years to come, implying a long-term warmer planet due to past and present emissions of CO2. Sea levels are likely to continue to rise for many centuries to come, even after we halt increases in average temperatures. Significant cooling will be needed to reverse the melting of glaciers and the Greenland ice sheet, which formed during previous ice ages. The current CO2-induced warming of the Earth is therefore essentially irreversible on a human time scale. The amount and rate of further warming will depend solely on how much more CO2 humanity emits in the future.”

End Quote.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Misab

[Liverpool Lou]

"Let’s look at facts".

 

Yes, lets...those "facts" are opinions of some scientists.

[KhunLA]

7 degrees is almost a half a century (~500 yrs)away, at the 1.5C rate per 100 yrs, that may or may not happen.

 

Humans will be lucky if they make it 100 more years before self destruction.   The weather that they apparently have no desire in trying to control, even if possible, it's  not, is the least of their concerns...IMHO

[Social Media]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe join the thread in the world news section:

 

Moved to the ALL NEW Green Forum !

[Furioso]

I agree Climate Change is worrisome(and I have studied this quite extensively). However, I agree with KhunLA there are much bigger issues than CC.

1. We're adding 70 million people a year to planet earth. 

2. Soon 50% of earth's population will be obese.

3. Air Pollution is extremely dangerous across the globe, affecting billions of people. 

4. Wars are still being fought, tensions are rising across the globe, there have been many genocides in the past, with many more likely in the future. 

5. The latest pandemic was badly mishandled. A future pandemic may very well be apocalyptic. 

There is one cure to climate change and all the issues I mentioned above. This cure was theorized by the late, great professor Al Bartlett. He pounded the idea for decades and decades that the answer is NOT growth and conspicuous consumption. The ONLY ANSWER is NEGATIVE GROWTH. Without NEGATIVE GROWTH the citizens of planet earth are doomed. 

[Misab]

Yes, you are right the rising population is a big big problem.  We call us self for the most intelligent race on the planet and many are intelligent, unfortunately the majority are not. We could have had a clean planet with no rising CO2 in the atmosphere if we had used nuclear energy. But the majority of the population didn’t want it for various reasons and the Oil companies certainly didn't want it. So, the oil companies scratch the back of the politicians and what did the politicians do? 

 

[proton]

can somebody explain how the man made 3% the 0.04% of C02 in the atmosphere can possible be a major cause of climate change? man made global warming seems to be a discredited term now. Perhaps that should be person made or non specific gender change. It's all a scaremongering scam. UK is 2% of the world output of CO2, if it sank beneath the waves tomorrow it would make no difference to the climate at all.

[cmjl]

There has always been climate change,it's called weather,many moons ago we had an ice age,my theory is that the earth is tilting towards the sun now,once it's passed the tipping point the climate/weather will very slowly start to cool down and we will then have another ice age,we won't be around to prove or disprove my theory but,as Tippaporn writes climate change is very good for the pockets of oligarchs while us poor plebs starve.

[placeholder]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:05 PM, KhunLA said:

7 degrees is almost a half a century (~500 yrs)away, at the 1.5C rate per 100 yrs, that may or may not happen.

 

Humans will be lucky if they make it 100 more years before self destruction.   The weather that they apparently have no desire in trying to control, even if possible, it's  not, is the least of their concerns...IMHO

If you take 120 (not 100) years as the amount of time, you're correct. The problem is, that you don't take into account the accelerated rate of rise over the last 40 years. T

"Earth’s temperature has risen by an average of 0.14° Fahrenheit (0.08° Celsius) per decade since 1880, or about 2° F in total.
The rate of warming since 1981 is more than twice as fast: 0.32° F (0.18° C) per decade.

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

 

[placeholder]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:51 PM, Furioso said:

I agree Climate Change is worrisome(and I have studied this quite extensively). However, I agree with KhunLA there are much bigger issues than CC.

1. We're adding 70 million people a year to planet earth. 

2. Soon 50% of earth's population will be obese.

3. Air Pollution is extremely dangerous across the globe, affecting billions of people. 

4. Wars are still being fought, tensions are rising across the globe, there have been many genocides in the past, with many more likely in the future. 

5. The latest pandemic was badly mishandled. A future pandemic may very well be apocalyptic. 

There is one cure to climate change and all the issues I mentioned above. This cure was theorized by the late, great professor Al Bartlett. He pounded the idea for decades and decades that the answer is NOT growth and conspicuous consumption. The ONLY ANSWER is NEGATIVE GROWTH. Without NEGATIVE GROWTH the citizens of planet earth are doomed. 

Well, at least #4 should be mitigated by the increasing reliance on solar and wind. As for the negative growth assertion, the EU has greatly decreased emissions, but its economy continues to grow. There is no necessary connection between fossil fuel use and economic growth.

[placeholder]

21 hours ago, Misab said:

Yes, you are right the rising population is a big big problem.  We call us self for the most intelligent race on the planet and many are intelligent, unfortunately the majority are not. We could have had a clean planet with no rising CO2 in the atmosphere if we had used nuclear energy. But the majority of the population didn’t want it for various reasons and the Oil companies certainly didn't want it. So, the oil companies scratch the back of the politicians and what did the politicians do? 

 

Nuclear energy is hugely expensive. Even more expensive than projected because of huge cost overruns that plague their construction. And as we're seeing now in France, not nearly so reliable as its cracked up to be. And if the fossil fuel industry is so powerful, why is it that new power plant construction is predominantly wind and solar powered?

[placeholder]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Because fossil fuel companies have been so benevolent? In fact, fossil fuel revenues have supported massive corruption and poor governance in developing nations.

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, cmjl said:

There has always been climate change,it's called weather,many moons ago we had an ice age,my theory is that the earth is tilting towards the sun now,once it's passed the tipping point the climate/weather will very slowly start to cool down and we will then have another ice age,we won't be around to prove or disprove my theory but,as Tippaporn writes climate change is very good for the pockets of oligarchs while us poor plebs starve.

Your theory, huh? You really want to dignify your evidence-free speculation as a theory? More like a notion, actually. There's a thing called Milankovitch cycles that do play a crucial role in climate change. But they operate over thousands of years.  What's more if the solar theory was true then the entire atmosphere should be warming. But that's not the case. While the tropsphere were humans live has been getting warmer, the stratosphere has actually been getting cooler. This is mostly due to the fact that greenhouse gases delay the ascent of infrared radiation into the stratosphere,

There was another theory floated that sunspots might affect the climate. And indeed there was a very weak connection noted until the mid 70's. At which point it was swamped by other factors. What's more that correlaton assumes that sunspots actually contribute to cooling, not warming. But the fact is that for previous solar cycles in the 20th and 21st century, sunspot activity has become progressively low. So, despite that, global warming has actually been faster over the last 40 years.

Edited March 23, 2023 by placeholder

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll, conspiracy posts and replies removed.  Continue and face a suspension.

 

[placeholder]

21 hours ago, proton said:

can somebody explain how the man made 3% the 0.04% of C02 in the atmosphere can possible be a major cause of climate change? man made global warming seems to be a discredited term now. Perhaps that should be person made or non specific gender change. It's all a scaremongering scam. UK is 2% of the world output of CO2, if it sank beneath the waves tomorrow it would make no difference to the climate at all.

Actually the explanation was provided by the great Irish physicist, John Tyndall, who discovered the greenhouse effect of various gases. Then the Nobel Prize winning Swedish physicist, Arrhenius, actually quantified the effects. 

But if you think that the low percentage of CO in the atmosphere somehow justifies your point, then consider that chlorofluorocarbons compose a percentage of the ozone layer that is only one tenth that of Carbon dioxide. Yet the reduction of the percentage thanks to the banning of chlorofluorocarbons has resulted in the ongoing recovery of ozone levels in the upper atmosphere.

Edited March 23, 2023 by placeholder

[kimincm]

 

Not to put to fine a point to this Global Warming/Climate Change.

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, kimincm said:

 

Not to put to fine a point to this Global Warming/Climate Change.

 

23 minutes ago, kimincm said:

 

Not to put to fine a point to this Global Warming/Climate Change.

To mostly quote what I previously wrote:

"If you take 140 (not 100) years as the amount of time, you're correct. The problem is, that you don't take into account the accelerated rate of rise over the last 40 years. 

"Earth’s temperature has risen by an average of 0.14° Fahrenheit (0.08° Celsius) per decade since 1880, or about 2° F in total.
The rate of warming since 1981 is more than twice as fast: 0.32° F (0.18° C) per decade.

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

[Heng]

The snow pretty much stopped a month early in Niseko this year.    Early March has been pow city for decades.   If that's not a red flag-all hands on deck-crisis I don't know what is.   

[placeholder]

Just now, Heng said:

The snow pretty much stopped a month early in Niseko this year.    Early March has been pow city for decades.   If that's not a red flag-all hands on deck-crisis I don't know what is.   

Well, climate change is all about trends. Droughts have always happened and always will. The question is are they getting more frequent and more severe. The latest IPCC report has this breakdown by regions to show the effect of human caused climate change on droughts.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-what-the-new-ipcc-report-says-about-extreme-weather-and-climate-change/

[Misab]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:05 PM, KhunLA said:

7 degrees is almost a half a century (~500 yrs)away, at the 1.5C rate per 100 yrs, that may or may not happen.

 

Humans will be lucky if they make it 100 more years before self destruction.   The weather that they apparently have no desire in trying to control, even if possible, it's  not, is the least of their concerns...IMHO

 

On 3/21/2023 at 2:06 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

"Let’s look at facts".

 

Yes, lets...those "facts" are opinions of some scientists.

some scientists = 97 percent – agree that humans are causing global warming and climate change.

[ozimoron]

On 3/21/2023 at 2:06 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

"Let’s look at facts".

 

Yes, lets...those "facts" are opinions of some scientists.

Only scientists paid by fossil fuel companies disagree. 

[Misab]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:07 PM, cmjl said:

There has always been climate change,it's called weather,many moons ago we had an ice age,my theory is that the earth is tilting towards the sun now,once it's passed the tipping point the climate/weather will very slowly start to cool down and we will then have another ice age,we won't be around to prove or disprove my theory but,as Tippaporn writes climate change is very good for the pockets of oligarchs while us poor plebs starve.

 

I know there is a group of people who are of the belief that climate change has always existed and is not man-made. To this my answer is: Yes, climate change has always existed, but it happened over thousands of years, when flora and fauna had time to get used to the changes. What is happening now, it has happened over less than 100 years, and is in my eyes the greatest disaster of our time.
The oil industry continuously sends out propaganda material to undermine the danger of climate change.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Misab said:

Yes, climate change has always existed, but it happened over thousands of years, when flora and fauna had time to get used to the changes.

So explain the woolly mammoths found flash frozen with greens still in their stomachs?

https://creation.com/the-extinction-of-the-woolly-mammoth-was-it-a-quick-freeze

[cmjl]

Until 'the powers that be' address the overpopulation of the world (and it won't happen because it's not a vote winner) countries will continue in the same old ways,whether so called climate change is man made or not people are wasteful and have been for at least the last 40 years (the throw away mentality),we cannot keep raping the earths resources and not suffer the consequences.

 

Take Thailand for instance,has anyone driven any of the mountain roads in Tak province lately,mile after mile of deforestation(and it won't be the only province that this is happening in-the photo was taken this week on the 1175)to be planted up with short term crops,the forests that have been removed gave us oxygen and soaked up carbon dioxide and were home to many species of flora and fauna,they also stabilised the land,when the rains come there is nothing to stop the erosion of the land then landslips happen accompanied by much hand wringing when those landslips take out houses and families.

 

It was rather ironic driving down the 1175 to see warning signs to beware of elephants when there looked to be maybe 2-3 m of shrubs at the side of the road before the cultivated land started - where are they,as well as all the other displaced insects,birds and animals supposed to live now?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

So explain the woolly mammoths found flash frozen with greens still in their stomachs?

https://creation.com/the-extinction-of-the-woolly-mammoth-was-it-a-quick-freeze

I love it. You're linking to a website that denies the theory of evolution. The supports the notion that the Biblical account of creation is true. Thanks for the laugh. 

Here's a link to the science

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211020135914.htm

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Misab said:

 

I know there is a group of people who are of the belief that climate change has always existed and is not man-made. To this my answer is: Yes, climate change has always existed, but it happened over thousands of years, when flora and fauna had time to get used to the changes. What is happening now, it has happened over less than 100 years, and is in my eyes the greatest disaster of our time.
The oil industry continuously sends out propaganda material to undermine the danger of climate change.

There also a group of people who are of the belief that the climate is always changing and will continue to change, and that man's activities contribute to that change. 

 

Fossil fuels have been improving lives for hundreds of years. People are living longer, with less hunger and poverty than at any time in the history of the world, which is in large part to the energy and products fossil fuels provides. 

 

The fossil fuel industry generally makes money, and they make a good bit of money from green energy. 

 

Would you please provide a few examples of the propaganda material the oil industry is sending out to undermine the danger of climate-change? 

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

On 3/21/2023 at 2:06 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

"Let’s look at facts".

 

Yes, lets...those "facts" are opinions of some scientists.

Only scientists paid by fossil fuel companies disagree. 

Disagree with what?

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, Misab said:

some scientists = 97 percent – agree that humans are causing global warming and climate change.

An argument that was debunked a long time ago. What you're referring to was a survey of selected scientists and the 97% figure was 97% of those who responded to that survey, that's all, not 97% of all the world's scientists.

[Menken]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:51 PM, Furioso said:

I agree Climate Change is worrisome(and I have studied this quite extensively). However, I agree with KhunLA there are much bigger issues than CC.

1. We're adding 70 million people a year to planet earth. 

2. Soon 50% of earth's population will be obese.

3. Air Pollution is extremely dangerous across the globe, affecting billions of people. 

4. Wars are still being fought, tensions are rising across the globe, there have been many genocides in the past, with many more likely in the future. 

5. The latest pandemic was badly mishandled. A future pandemic may very well be apocalyptic. 

There is one cure to climate change and all the issues I mentioned above. This cure was theorized by the late, great professor Al Bartlett. He pounded the idea for decades and decades that the answer is NOT growth and conspicuous consumption. The ONLY ANSWER is NEGATIVE GROWTH. Without NEGATIVE GROWTH the citizens of planet earth are doomed. 

Population is peaking 9B and will decline back to less than where we are now.

 

My guess is fertility rates in N. America, EU and East Asia are plummeting. Many countries already offer substantial tax benefits for having children.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:48 PM, Misab said:

Climate Change

 

Did we pass the point of no return a long time ago?

 

Yes. So eat, drink and be merry before we all die of self inflicted pollution.

 

Seriously, IMO we passed the point of no return on the day the world population passed 3 billion.