Nato's border with Russia doubles as Finland joins

[Social Media]

BBC News

 

Finland has become the 31st member of the Nato security alliance, and its flag will soon be raised at the alliance's headquarters.

The Finnish foreign minister handed the accession document to the US secretary of state who declared Finland a member.

Finland's accession is a setback for Russia's Vladimir Putin, who repeatedly complained of Nato's expansion before his full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

The length of Russia's border with Nato member states has now doubled.

Finland shares a 1,340-km (832-mile) eastern frontier with Russia and formally applied to join Nato with Sweden last May because of Russia's war.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov warned that Russia would be "watching closely" what happens in Finland, describing Nato's enlargement as a "violation of our security and our national interests".

 

Finland and Sweden had previously both adopted a policy of non-alignment. But after the Ukraine invasion, they chose the protection of Nato's Article Five, which says an attack on one member is an attack on all.

[Tug]

I’ll bet old puttie a bit upset how’s that war you started working out for you you monster do you feel the wall’s closing in hummm….. his legacy will be that of abject failure I sincerely hope the Russian people but this monster paid asap make amends and rejoin the world!

[expat_4_life]

I must be missing something here, how can this be in Finland's interest?

 

Was Finland under some immediate threat, they lived next to the old USSR and Russia since the end of the cold war. There are existing treaties.

1) Now they are on the NATO hook for the 2% of GDP to NATO

2) With a NATO proxy war ongoing they have increased the risk they get dragged in.

3) there is a risk that an expanded NATO border with Russia is seen as an existential threat which could have consequences.

4) they just gave up some of their flexibility to make independent decisions about their national security/defense.

5) I don't even want to think about the additional consequences if Russia wins the US/NATO led proxy war in Ukraine, there will be some though

Edited April 5, 2023 by expat_4_life

[Tug]

6 minutes ago, expat_4_life said:

I must be missing something here, how can this be in Finland's interest?

 

Was Finland under some immediate threat, they lived next to the old USSR and Russia since the end of the cold war. There are existing treaties.

1) Now they are on the NATO hook for the 2% of GDP to NATO

2) With a NATO proxy war ongoing they have increased the risk they get dragged in.

3) there is a risk that an expanded NATO border with Russia is seen as an existential threat which could have consequences.

4) they just gave up some of their flexibility to make independent decisions about their national security/defense.

5) I don't even want to think about the additional consequences if Russia wins the US/NATO led proxy war in Ukraine, there will be some though

The Finn’s know the Russians well and they are deeply concerned they want the weight of nato behind them if Putin decides to exterminate their country like he’s trying to do in Ukraine ???????? nato is helping Ukraine fight for its right to exist they aren’t leading it Putin started this war of conquest he needs to be defeated hopefully from within Russia it self salva Ukraine ???????? long live nato!

[300sd]

How many times did Russia invade them anyway? Well they're safe now.

 

[billd766]

10 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

I must be missing something here, how can this be in Finland's interest?

 

Was Finland under some immediate threat, they lived next to the old USSR and Russia since the end of the cold war. There are existing treaties.

1) Now they are on the NATO hook for the 2% of GDP to NATO

2) With a NATO proxy war ongoing they have increased the risk they get dragged in.

3) there is a risk that an expanded NATO border with Russia is seen as an existential threat which could have consequences.

4) they just gave up some of their flexibility to make independent decisions about their national security/defense.

5) I don't even want to think about the additional consequences if Russia wins the US/NATO led proxy war in Ukraine, there will be some though

It was and still is Finland's choice to apply for NATO membership. Once it has been approved by the other members then Finland and subsequently Sweden will become members of NATO.

 

Of course Russia did not want this to happen and it most probably would not have happened if Russia had not invaded the Ukraine.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

I must be missing something here, how can this be in Finland's interest?

 

Was Finland under some immediate threat, they lived next to the old USSR and Russia since the end of the cold war. There are existing treaties.

1) Now they are on the NATO hook for the 2% of GDP to NATO

2) With a NATO proxy war ongoing they have increased the risk they get dragged in.

3) there is a risk that an expanded NATO border with Russia is seen as an existential threat which could have consequences.

4) they just gave up some of their flexibility to make independent decisions about their national security/defense.

5) I don't even want to think about the additional consequences if Russia wins the US/NATO led proxy war in Ukraine, there will be some though

You are indeed missing something.

 

Putins illegal war and invasion of a sovereign nation.

 

Now what was it you were saying about existing treaties?

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[still kicking]

Key ally Poland pledges backing for Kyiv NATO bid

 

Key ally Poland pledges backing for Kyiv NATO bid | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

[heybruce]

18 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

I must be missing something here, how can this be in Finland's interest?

 

Was Finland under some immediate threat, they lived next to the old USSR and Russia since the end of the cold war. There are existing treaties.

1) Now they are on the NATO hook for the 2% of GDP to NATO

2) With a NATO proxy war ongoing they have increased the risk they get dragged in.

3) there is a risk that an expanded NATO border with Russia is seen as an existential threat which could have consequences.

4) they just gave up some of their flexibility to make independent decisions about their national security/defense.

5) I don't even want to think about the additional consequences if Russia wins the US/NATO led proxy war in Ukraine, there will be some though

Yes, you are missing something; you are missing the obvious, in many ways.

 

2% of Finland's GDP is supposed to go to defense, and for that Finland gets a commitment that other countries with much larger militaries will come to Finland's defense if Putin or anyone else attacks. 

 

Finland obviously thinks membership in NATO is worth the compromises and commitments.  The fact that Putin is P.O.'d about it shows they made the right call.

 

NATO is not an existential threat to Russia.  NATO is an impediment to Putin's desire to expand the Russian empire. 

 

BTW:  Ukraine was in the old USSR and shared a border with Russia since the end of the cold war.  Ukraine's experience obviously motivated Finland and other country's to seek NATO membership.

[jayceenik]

Brave Finland will now be ready to storm the China beaches with her NATO colleagues when Big Protector will say so.

 

BTW  

How many NATO countries fought in Afghanistan?

At its height, the force was more than 130,000 strong with troops from 50 NATO and partner countries.

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, jayceenik said:

Brave Finland will now be ready to storm the China beaches with her NATO colleagues when Big Protector will say so.

 

BTW  

How many NATO countries fought in Afghanistan?

At its height, the force was more than 130,000 strong with troops from 50 NATO and partner countries.

 

Answer to first sentence/question:  Finland will be under no obligation to do so unless China attacks a NATO nation.

 

Regarding the rest; what's your point?

[ozimoron]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:14 AM, expat_4_life said:

I must be missing something here, how can this be in Finland's interest?

 

Was Finland under some immediate threat, they lived next to the old USSR and Russia since the end of the cold war. There are existing treaties.

Ukraine had a treaty as well. Finland previously had to cede part of its territory to Russia, they don't want a repeat.

 

On 4/5/2023 at 9:14 AM, expat_4_life said:

1) Now they are on the NATO hook for the 2% of GDP to NATO

No they are not. They are required to spend 2% of their GDP on defense which I believe Finland easily exceeds, mainly due to fear of invasion by Russia.

 

On 4/5/2023 at 9:14 AM, expat_4_life said:

2) With a NATO proxy war ongoing they have increased the risk they get dragged in.

They are well aware of the consequences of joining NATO and the majority are in favour.

 

On 4/5/2023 at 9:14 AM, expat_4_life said:

3) there is a risk that an expanded NATO border with Russia is seen as an existential threat which could have consequences.

Nothing new there.

 

On 4/5/2023 at 9:14 AM, expat_4_life said:

4) they just gave up some of their flexibility to make independent decisions about their national security/defense.

Rubbish. They are free to defend their own country as they see fit. Finland sees resisting Russia as very much in its own interests, no matter where.

On 4/5/2023 at 9:14 AM, expat_4_life said:

5) I don't even want to think about the additional consequences if Russia wins the US/NATO led proxy war in Ukraine, there will be some though

They won't, Finland joining NATO just reduced the chances of that quite a lot. Putin is now toast because of this. The Russian military must now see what a disaster this imbecile is.

[GypsyT]

What are you guys talking about?

 

Finland has NO border against Russia!

 

I trust France24 - The Best News in the Europe!

 

[FritsSikkink]

On 4/5/2023 at 4:58 AM, Tug said:

I’ll bet old puttie a bit upset how’s that war you started working out for you you monster do you feel the wall’s closing in hummm….. his legacy will be that of abject failure I sincerely hope the Russian people but this monster paid asap make amends and rejoin the world!

NATO surrounding Russian borders started this whole thing.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

NATO surrounding Russian borders started this whole thing.

For a start, NATO doesn't surround Russia. NATO didn't react to Russia on it's borders so why should Russia? The correct answer is that Russia started this whole thing. NATO didn't invade anybody.

 

Your post is equivalent to blaming Czechoslovakia because Germany invaded it.

Edited April 6, 2023 by ozimoron

[Wobblybob]

15 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

NATO surrounding Russian borders started this whole thing.

NATO is not a country, nations joined NATO to stop Russia invading them and who can blame them after what we have seen in Ukraine. The Russian mentality is we can take what we like and nobody can stop us, they are in for a rude awakening for sure.

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

The Russian mentality is we can take what we like and nobody can stop us, they are in for a rude awakening for sure.

I think you are mixing up the Russian mentality with the USA one.

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

I think you are mixing up the Russian mentality with the USA one.

I don't think I am, it is only the Russians that are raping and killing innocent Ukrainians, stealing their land. And never forget that NATO was formed to keep the Russians from just taking other nations land and hasn't Putin done a fantastic job with NATO, Uiraine had no chance of joining until Russia invaded, the Finns and the Swedes had no intention of joining until Russia invaded Ukraine too, so we must all doff our caps to Putin, this years NATO salesman of the year. 

[Tug]

11 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

NATO surrounding Russian borders started this whole thing.

Ahh nooo Putin started it when he invaded his neighbor nato had nothing to do with it