Warning, Keto, low carb

[scubascuba3]

Good video this one from Physicians Committee, worth watching if considering or on a low carb diet. First 10-20 mins is the key.

 

Basically it's bad for you, causes increases in bad cholesterol,at greater risk of heart disease and stroke per the new study discussed

 

https://www.youtube.com/live/Ztvt5O2LVMo?feature=share

[save the frogs]

wow, i predict this thread will get heated!

[HampiK]

What I see, he always go to the wording low carb high fat. In Keto or low carb I never saw that you are allowed to eat hamburgers (Burger King, McDonalds) which he used as example.. or his fatty box.

So I guess this video is little bit different to what I understand in low carb food!

 

My food (low carb) is never fatty.. and always have salad or vegetables.

Edited April 5, 2023 by HampiK

[Fat is a type of crazy]

I think from a common sense point of view cutting out carbs doesn't feel healthy. Too much protein feels unpleasant and carbs make you feel good in the longer term. 

On a different topic, I was happy that the theory that short sharp workouts are better than longer workouts is being questioned too, and in fact longer moderate and vigourous exercise can have better outcomes. 

Massive study uncovers how much exercise is needed to live longer | American Medical Association (ama-assn.org) 

Though I am sure the short sharp exercise has excellent benefits, and is better than none, I didn't buy that it was as effective as longer exercise based on how it made me feel. 

 

Studies and statistics are important, but the way diet and exercise makes you feel, is a key indicator of it's likely effectiveness and your ability to keep it up. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Fat is a type of crazy

[ozimoron]

If you are overweight you can't lose weight without cutting carbs or upping the exercise rate dramatically or both. Losing weight reduces insulin resistance and improves health. Simples.

[jak2002003]

16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

If you are overweight you can't lose weight without cutting carbs or upping the exercise rate dramatically or both. Losing weight reduces insulin resistance and improves health. Simples.

How about stopping eating too much? 

 

If they eat only carbs and do not exercise they will still loose weight of they do not eat enough calories. 

 

A fat person eating only one cup of rice and a slice a bread with sugar on top ever day will loose weight....ans that all carbs.

 

Seriously though, why do people have to make their lives miserable on these 'latest best ever diets'?  Just eat more healthy food and consume less calories. 

[Furioso]

I follow Dr. Ekberg's YT channel. He talks a lot about how important it is to be insulin sensitive instead of insulin resistant as resistant is almost always the cause of medical problems(diabetes, heart attacks, kidney disease, fatty liver, etc).

 

He even has a video that shows how if you're insulin sensitive then cholesterol isn't harmful, it's beneficial to living longer. 

 

At least check out his top 10 foods(which turns out to be top 23). These foods are all natural, makes so much sense it's almost impossible to argue against. 

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Good video this one from Physicians Committee, worth watching if considering or on a low carb diet. First 10-20 mins is the key.

Bad video, doesn't bother to give the link to the study referenced, so it probably won't hold up to scrutiny. Doesn't understand 'bout cholesterol & stuff. Not worth watching even the first 10-20 min. Clickbait, basically.

 

Funny how the comments contain a lot of positive testimonials from low carbers. ????

[BigStar]

27 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Seriously though, why do people have to make their lives miserable on these 'latest best ever diets'?

Maybe they tried the others? Some say they work? Not everyone is miserable, so they wish to try? Figure it out. BTW, low carb is well-established and not a fad diet as the ignorant proclaim. Only one or two members here actually know anything about it.

 

27 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Just eat more healthy food and consume less calories. 

Everyone knows that, and so 73.6% of the US population is overweight (including the obese) and 88% metabolically unhealthy. Yeah, works great. ????

 

Perhaps the definition of healthy food, as determined by the food processing industry and their lobbyists, needs a bit of revision towards the low glycemic end of the food spectrum. 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by BigStar

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

How about stopping eating too much? 

 

If they eat only carbs and do not exercise they will still loose weight of they do not eat enough calories. 

 

A fat person eating only one cup of rice and a slice a bread with sugar on top ever day will loose weight....ans that all carbs.

 

Seriously though, why do people have to make their lives miserable on these 'latest best ever diets'?  Just eat more healthy food and consume less calories. 

The amount people eat is bounded by their appetite and the weight they put on is influenced by their carb intake versus the amount of calories they burn. A fat person eating only one cup of rice and a slice a bread with sugar on top ever day will definitely not lose weight and will definitely become insulin resistant or diabetic. Reducing carbs is not a "best ever diet" it's the best ever diet. Specifically a Mediterranean diet with low, not no carbs.

Edited April 5, 2023 by ozimoron

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think from a common sense point of view cutting out carbs doesn't feel healthy.

Usual straw man argument often seen here. Nobody but extreme carnivores suggest or even imply cutting out carbs.

 

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

the theory that short sharp workouts are better than longer workouts is being questioned too

Who said, "better?" And what kind of workout, exactly, in detail? According to what schedule? Muddled. This study is merely observational, BTW. Main point to take away is that engaging in too much prolonged vigorous exercise brings about a diminishing return. Nothing new there, inevitable conclusion really.

 

Meanwhile, you have P. D. Mangan's relatively short intense (30 min/wk x 2) workouts, and a low carb diet, producing impressive (natural) results in a 68-year-old former skinny geek microbiologist, great blood markers. I'm finding his general principles (derived from the Arthur Jones/Doug McGuff/Atkins line) personally effective. Less work, more results a la Pareto Principle.

 

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

in fact longer moderate and vigourous exercise can have better outcomes. 

Better than what? The study isn't examining any "short sharp" exercise variable. 

 

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

the way diet and exercise makes you feel, is a key indicator of it's likely effectiveness and your ability to keep it up.

The blood lipid numbers are the key indicators of effectiveness. You may feel really great while chronic disease progresses behind the scenes. Seen that, in fact. Keeping it a bay may be--SHOCK--less difficult for some than for others, as with many things in life, except for those truly favored by the Genetics Voodoo. Here, our Life Coaches generally advocate for that short but happy life ending with a smile on one's face during a bonk. It never seems to work out quite that way, according to so many posts in the Health forum.

 

A few of us prefer to avoid the need for meds and make some effort towards a long but happy life, postponing and compressing the fight against chronic disease to a shorter period towards the very end.

 

Up2u. It's the same old discussion repeated countless times here. Really not worth having again and again.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

17 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Usual straw man argument often seen here. Nobody but extreme carnivores suggest or even imply cutting out carbs.

 

Who said, "better?" And what kind of workout, exactly, in detail? According to what schedule? Muddled. This study is merely observational, BTW. Main point to take away is that engaging in too much prolonged vigorous exercise brings about a diminishing return. Nothing new there, inevitable conclusion really.

 

Meanwhile, you have P. D. Mangan's relatively short intense (30 min/wk x 2) workouts, and a low carb diet, producing impressive (natural) results in a 68-year-old former skinny geek microbiologist, great blood markers. I'm finding his general principles (derived from the Arthur Jones/Doug McGuff/Atkins line) personally effective. Less work, more results a la Pareto Principle.

 

Better than what? The study isn't examining any "short sharp" exercise variable. 

 

The blood lipid numbers are the key indicators of effectiveness. You may feel really great while chronic disease progresses behind the scenes. Seen that, in fact. Keeping it a bay may be--SHOCK--less difficult for some than for others, as with many things in life, except for those truly favored by the Genetics Voodoo. Here, our Life Coaches generally advocate for that short but happy life ending with a smile on one's face during a bonk. It never seems to work out quite that way, according to so many posts in the Health forum.

 

A few of us prefer to avoid the need for meds and make some effort towards a long but happy life, postponing and compressing the fight against chronic disease to a shorter period towards the very end.

 

Up2u. It's the same old discussion repeated countless times here. Really not worth having again and again.

I was waiting for Big Star. 

My point, and I acknowledged it is subjective and possibly obvious, is that scientific advice and statistics are important, but the way diet and exercise makes you feel is a key factor too.

Of course, you have to be careful, because if you have a bad diet to begin with, you may not be in a position to know what is good, e.g. the feeling that a tub of ice cream feels good and therefore one a day is good.

But if you have a good diet and good exercise then it gets to a point where you can rely more on how you feel and what diet and exercise works for you. Nothing amazing in that. Doesn't mean you deny other factors offered by doctors and science. 

I don't think I indicated the options were an extreme all protein diet and no carbs or a so called mixed diet so I am not sure why you call it a straw man argument.

 

I may have mixed up my exercise studies - there were a few that came out - including this one that shows running can be good as against necessarily wearing out your joints Is running bad for your knees? Research shows impact on marathoners (nbcnews.com) The other study suggested longer exercise appears to be optimal for health. 

 

The rest of your post is stuff and nonsense you seem to pull out at every opportunity, classifying anyone who doesn't fully comply with your point of view as being happy to cop a short happy life, on medications or whatever.

Haven't taken a medication in my life except for the odd antibiotic or whatever for short term illness as advised by doctor. Not even a pain killer tablet ever except maybe after injury when I was 10 or at the dentist. 

So no need to go into your prearranged script that makes you feel good but adds nothing to the argument. I am not even disagreeing with your logic but simply noting that as you get fit and healthy listening to your body can help you in decisions about diet and exercise. 

 

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think from a common sense point of view cutting out carbs doesn't feel healthy. Too much protein feels unpleasant and carbs make you feel good in the longer term. 

On a different topic, I was happy that the theory that short sharp workouts are better than longer workouts is being questioned too, and in fact longer moderate and vigourous exercise can have better outcomes. 

Massive study uncovers how much exercise is needed to live longer | American Medical Association (ama-assn.org) 

Though I am sure the short sharp exercise has excellent benefits, and is better than none, I didn't buy that it was as effective as longer exercise based on how it made me feel. 

 

Studies and statistics are important, but the way diet and exercise makes you feel, is a key indicator of it's likely effectiveness and your ability to keep it up. 

i agree carbs make you feel good. I try for low fat, today i made an exception and had an almond croissant, tastes great but my body doesn't like it anymore, must be the type of fat used

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, Furioso said:

I follow Dr. Ekberg's YT channel. He talks a lot about how important it is to be insulin sensitive instead of insulin resistant as resistant is almost always the cause of medical problems(diabetes, heart attacks, kidney disease, fatty liver, etc).

 

He even has a video that shows how if you're insulin sensitive then cholesterol isn't harmful, it's beneficial to living longer. 

 

At least check out his top 10 foods(which turns out to be top 23). These foods are all natural, makes so much sense it's almost impossible to argue against. 

once you understand more about nutrition you'll stop watching his videos, i take them with a pinch of salt, he looks unhealthy, probably has a wiff about him

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

wow, i predict this thread will get heated!

We talking about fanatics here, expect nothing else ????

 

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

A fat person eating only one cup of rice and a slice a bread with sugar on top ever day will definitely not lose weight and will definitely become insulin resistant or diabetic

Wrong again, presumably you haven't heard of Dr Walter Kempner and the rice diet, used to drastically reduce the weight of many patients

[Walker88]

Know your own metabolism, as we're not all created equal.

 

As for keto, it has other downsides, such as messing up neurotransmitters like serotonin. That can, and often does, result in depression. Serotonin is also involved in sleep quality and blood pressure regulation. Keto can also mess up how the body utilizes/produces insulin, which is why many people---once off keto---show rapid regaining of weight and especially fat.

 

Carbs are essential, as they are the prime fuel the body uses. Overdoing carbs can result in weight gain and other maladies, depending on one's personal metabolism and activity level. Carb mix is also important. Carbs get a bad name lately, but avoid them at your own risk.

 

Owing to my own genetics, I can consume quite large amounts of carbs, even those called "high glycemic". It helps that I do regular resistance training and cardio work. Again, know your metabolism. Today, there are also very good analytics available to do a complete blood profile, and for many people, it's worth the expense of getting this done. Provided one's a1c and blood glucose are within target ranges, BP is normal, and body fat is within a desirable range, no need to alter one's diet.

 

 

[h90]

yes on youtube you'll find a 1000 videos that tell you that you'll die if you live keto.

And you'll find another 1000 videos that will tell you that it heals every disease and is the most healthy thing on the planet.

 

I can neither find good reasons to be on Keto (unless you have some medical reasons (there are a few), nor do I think it is harmful....some people do it since decades.
It is a waste of time to get into that useless discussion of some Exaggerator and supplement sales person.

[JeffersLos]

You mean not everyone knows that Keto is complete and utterly wrong by now? ????????????

Edited April 5, 2023 by JeffersLos

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, h90 said:

yes on youtube you'll find a 1000 videos that tell you that you'll die if you live keto.

And you'll find another 1000 videos that will tell you that it heals every disease and is the most healthy thing on the planet.

 

I can neither find good reasons to be on Keto (unless you have some medical reasons (there are a few), nor do I think it is harmful....some people do it since decades.
It is a waste of time to get into that useless discussion of some Exaggerator and supplement sales person.

A good argument is keto on a limited time, but lifelong ? I do not think so, and as said many times before, diet is a belief, when you start talking about genetic diet suitable for your metabolism. In few cases it can be true due to health issues, but for normal people, there is no differences, just crap food and lifestyles.

 

Almost anything will help short time, and with a strong belief as well in what you doing, placebo effect will help to.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Wrong again, presumably you haven't heard of Dr Walter Kempner and the rice diet, used to drastically reduce the weight of many patients

I do know the rice diet dramatically increases the weight of many people. The only way his diet would work would be that it contained one grain of rice.

[scubascuba3]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I do know the rice diet dramatically increases the weight of many people. The only way his diet would work would be that it contained one grain of rice.

I'm coming to the conclusion you're just a troll. Educate yourself on Dr Walter Kempner if you actually want to gain some knowledge

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm coming to the conclusion you're just a troll. Educate yourself on Dr Walter Kempner if you actually want to gain some knowledge

This Walter Kempner?

 

The rice diet is pseudoscience at its worst, nor is it modern and neither was it used as a weight loss diet.

 

The modern version of the rice diet has been categorized as a fad diet with possible disadvantages including a boring food choice, flatulence, and the risk of feeling too hungry.[12]

Most people cannot follow the rice diet over extended periods, as it is too restrictive. Loren Cordain has commented that "the tenets of the Rice Diet are inconsistent with the best science of the 21st century"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_diet

[TimeMachine]

I've tried near zero carb keto diet always making sure I was in ketosis with test and along with exercise. I felt the best. Problem is sticking with keto is hard due to the expense and inconvenience. How many keto cafes are out there. Zero. It's all wheat and sugar because that's where the money is. Have to be a full time cook if you want to be serious about low carb. There's also the addictiveness of sugars and other additives put together with that evil weed wheat. 

[scubascuba3]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

This Walter Kempner?

 

The rice diet is pseudoscience at its worst, nor is it modern and neither was it used as a weight loss diet.

 

The modern version of the rice diet has been categorized as a fad diet with possible disadvantages including a boring food choice, flatulence, and the risk of feeling too hungry.[12]

Most people cannot follow the rice diet over extended periods, as it is too restrictive. Loren Cordain has commented that "the tenets of the Rice Diet are inconsistent with the best science of the 21st century"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_diet

Of course it's a boring diet which is why people can't stick to it, but those that could easily lost weight, proved back in 1939. Anyway you're recommending a Mediterranean diet in Thailand which is useless 555

Edited April 5, 2023 by scubascuba3

[ozimoron]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Of course it's a boring diet which is why people can't stick to it, but those that could easily lost weight, proved back in 1939. Anyway you're recommending a meditation diet in Thailand which is useless 555

There is no mention in the wiki article of weight loss in reference to this diet.

[scubascuba3]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

There is no mention in the wiki article of weight loss in reference to this diet.

Frank Neelon who worked with Kempner talks about all of it including weight loss and Patient X

 

https://youtu.be/vJDQo90_hGM

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by scubascuba3

[Lacessit]

The Physicians Committee is linked to an animal rights group, and therefore has a vested interest in discouraging people from eating meat.

 

Quote: "The AMA finds the recommendations of PCRM irresponsible and potentially dangerous to the health and welfare of Americans. The AMA charges that PCRM is “blatantly misleading Americans on a health matter and concealing its true purpose as an animal 'rights' organization"

 

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Frank Neelon who worked with Kempner talks about all of it including weight loss and Patient X

 

https://youtu.be/vJDQo90_hGM

 

High-protein, low-carb plans like the Paleo Diet tend to do better at increasing the full-stomach feeling, reducing appetite and causing weight loss, said Cordain, also a Colorado State University health and exercise science professor.

"Hence the tenets of the Rice Diet are inconsistent with the best science of the 21st century," Cordain said in an email.

 

Five years after Kempner died, Duke severed its ties to the Rice Diet in 2002 and Robert Rosati, who had already been working with the program for nearly two decades, took it over.

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/rice-diet-center-closes-70-years-article-1.1451274

 

 

[ed strong]

Don't forget you can't compare the utter tosh that gets produced in USA to products in Europe.

 

So many banned products in US food thst just aren't allowed to be consumed in Europe.

 

Ask Americans how they lose weight when holidaying in Europe when drinking and eating more than they  do when in America. That's how bad their foods and health are.