Warning, Keto, low carb

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

True - but how do you review the papers unless you have a very strong background in statistics?

 

Some papers are good some bad - you can't blindly trust a summary and expect to know the truth...

 

Different papers contradict each other so some are right and some are wrong - but which ones...?

The ones which come from the most credible sources. Not all sources are equal. Consensus and peer review also mean a lot to me.

[TravelerEastWest]

On 4/21/2023 at 3:25 PM, ozimoron said:

The ones which come from the most credible sources. Not all sources are equal. Consensus and peer review also mean a lot to me.

I agree with you. Consensus and peer review tends to get rid of flawed and biased studies - although this can take time...

 

I also have a variation of consensus and peer review that I like to use:

 

I will find researchers and doctors that provide a good theory with backup that makes sense to me then I will tend to listen in general to the doctor or researcher without in the future being concerned about backup research...

 

 

[ozimoron]

15 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I agree with you. Consensus and peer review tends to get rid of flawed and biased studies - although this can take time...

 

I also have a variation of consensus and peer review that I like to use:

 

I will find researchers and doctors that provide a good theory with backup that makes sense to me then I will tend to listen in general to the doctor or researcher without in the future being concerned about backup research...

Research is useless without consensus and peer review. All worthwhile research has been peer reviewed without exception.

[TravelerEastWest]

12 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Research is useless without consensus and peer review. All worthwhile research has been peer reviewed without exception.

Useless is perhaps a strong statement but in general I agree with you.

 

I say a strong statement because research tends to start somewhere and it can take time to be reviewed... also the research can be good and take years to finish.

 

No I strongly doubt that all worthwhile research has been reviewed - but how do we know if it worthwhile if it has not been reviewed? Just thinking out loud...

 

Also some poor research has been reviewed favorably but later new research comes out that changes things.

[DrukenMallardy]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:20 AM, save the frogs said:

i don't care what anybody eats.

I mean, that should be the standard stance .

 

Why is everyone getting so worked up about other people's diet and health?

[Pink Mist]

An off topic post has been removed.

[TravelerEastWest]

Good to care about people?

 

Also poor diets and the lack of exercise tend to produce bad health which hurts the economy and ends up raising taxes? 

 

Just a thought...

[save the frogs]

On 4/24/2023 at 6:15 AM, DrukenMallardy said:

I mean, that should be the standard stance .

 

Why is everyone getting so worked up about other people's diet and health?

diet becomes a sort of dogma after a while.

no one wants to admit their views are wrong.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

diet becomes a sort of dogma after a while.

no one wants to admit their views are wrong.

I disagree. I change my diet slightly from time to time when I read research which convinces me to do so. For example, I used to drink about a liter of milk a day for about 50 years now I drink none. I can cite many examples fo how my diet has changed over the past few years.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

diet becomes a sort of dogma after a while.

no one wants to admit their views are wrong.

Recent threads highlight that nutrition is like religion, pick a side. Personally I've changed my diet a fair amount the last few years, plus lots of testing to measure it. I've minimised junk, dairy, fat, reducing meat also, carbing up, all good, 72kg, fit and blood test results good

[Keep Right]

My grandparents and my parents lived to be in their 90s and they all ate meat and potatoes, not much else. No tofu or a low carb low fat diet. Its all in the genes. Some have it, some don't so enjoy life, eat, drink and be merry for you never know what will kill you. If you live in Thailand, you are more likely to die of a motorbike accident or in a zebra crossing.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

My grandparents and my parents lived to be in their 90s and they all ate meat and potatoes, not much else. No tofu or a low carb low fat diet. Its all in the genes. Some have it, some don't so enjoy life, eat, drink and be merry for you never know what will kill you. If you live in Thailand, you are more likely to die of a motorbike accident or in a zebra crossing.

It was more likely to do with no processed food. My mother is 94 and has been an alcoholic all her life but she never eats anything out of a packet.

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic post removed.

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, Keep Right said:

My grandparents and my parents lived to be in their 90s and they all ate meat and potatoes, not much else. No tofu or a low carb low fat diet. Its all in the genes. Some have it, some don't so enjoy life, eat, drink and be merry for you never know what will kill you. If you live in Thailand, you are more likely to die of a motorbike accident or in a zebra crossing.

There's always rogue examples of people who have smoked all their lives, fried breakfast every day etc still alive at 89 but that doesn't help anyone

[Phulublub]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

There's always rogue examples of people who have smoked all their lives, fried breakfast every day etc still alive at 89 but that doesn't help anyone

Just as your Grandparents may be outliers. 

 

But maybe previous generations were FAR more active than most (Western) people are today, so they could pretty much eat anything (non-processed) they wished.

 

PH

[Hummin]

The answer is the same as last year and the years before,  The Mediterranean diet is based on the traditional way of eating in the 21 countries that border the Mediterranean Sea, including Greece, Italy, Croatia, Lebanon, Turkey and Monaco. It is one of U.S. News & World Report's Best Diets of 2023

 

Best Diets 2023

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Diets reviewed by nationally recognized experts.

Our panel of experts includes nutritionists and specialists in heart health, diabetes, human behavior and weight loss to help you choose the right diet for you

 

https://health.usnews.com/best-diet

[Irrumator]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:50 PM, scubascuba3 said:

i guess letting yourself get 55kg+ overweight you needed something like keto, you did well getting to 74, no doubt loads of meds helped

Who said 74 kgs?  I'm 64 kgs and never took any meds, just diet change alone.  

You need to stop living in that fantasyland in your head.  

[Irrumator]

On 4/26/2023 at 4:13 AM, scubascuba3 said:

There's always rogue examples of people who have smoked all their lives, fried breakfast every day etc still alive at 89 but that doesn't help anyone

It certainly helped the people with the genes that allowed them to do that. 

[scubascuba3]

52 minutes ago, Irrumator said:

Who said 74 kgs?  I'm 64 kgs and never took any meds, just diet change alone.  

You need to stop living in that fantasyland in your head.  

I think you replied with the same thing a couple weeks ago, age 74 not 74kg

[Irrumator]

On 4/5/2023 at 1:19 PM, Walker88 said:

Know your own metabolism, as we're not all created equal.

 

As for keto, it has other downsides, such as messing up neurotransmitters like serotonin. That can, and often does, result in depression. Serotonin is also involved in sleep quality and blood pressure regulation. Keto can also mess up how the body utilizes/produces insulin, which is why many people---once off keto---show rapid regaining of weight and especially fat.

 

Carbs are essential, as they are the prime fuel the body uses. Overdoing carbs can result in weight gain and other maladies, depending on one's personal metabolism and activity level. Carb mix is also important. Carbs get a bad name lately, but avoid them at your own risk.

 

Owing to my own genetics, I can consume quite large amounts of carbs, even those called "high glycemic". It helps that I do regular resistance training and cardio work. Again, know your metabolism. Today, there are also very good analytics available to do a complete blood profile, and for many people, it's worth the expense of getting this done. Provided one's a1c and blood glucose are within target ranges, BP is normal, and body fat is within a desirable range, no need to alter one's diet.

 

 

Carbs are NOT essential, certainly not excess carbs.  A normal balanced diet will give you all the carbs you need.  Just limit fruit, veg grown underground and eat green leafy veg and above all AVOID EXCESS SUGAR.  Nothing wrong with high fat either, it fills you up and adds flavour to food

I started Keto 6 years ago and lost 55 kgs in total and have kept it off by eating a fairly strict low carb diet.

In February 2017 I was 102 kilos with a BP of 145/95.  I gradually moved to a  low carb diet until in May 2017 I went full on low carb/keto,  call it what you will.

In July 2017 I had lost 12 kgs and my BP was exactly 100/60, a huge drop.  My practice nurse didn't believe her machine so checked the old fashioned way with a sphygmomanometer.  Exact same result.  She was astonished.

My current weight and BP at a checkup last week was weight 64 - 65 kgs and my BP was BP was 111/62 and I'm 74 years old.

 

Don't spread fake news and be so alarmist, as you obviously have no first hand experience of keto, just watched one Youtube video.  Troll.

[bignok]

On 4/24/2023 at 7:04 AM, ozimoron said:

Research is useless without consensus and peer review. All worthwhile research has been peer reviewed without exception.

So what do these peers say on arthritis?

[bignok]

On 4/25/2023 at 9:50 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Recent threads highlight that nutrition is like religion, pick a side. Personally I've changed my diet a fair amount the last few years, plus lots of testing to measure it. I've minimised junk, dairy, fat, reducing meat also, carbing up, all good, 72kg, fit and blood test results good

How much do you bench press? 

[asf6]

17 minutes ago, Irrumator said:

I started Keto 6 years ago and lost 55 kgs in total and have kept it off by eating a fairly strict low carb diet.

In February 2017 I was 102 kilos with a BP of 145/95.  I gradually moved to a  low carb diet until in May 2017 I went full on low carb/keto,  call it what you will.

In July 2017 I had lost 12 kgs and my BP was exactly 100/60, a huge drop.  My practice nurse didn't believe her machine so checked the old fashioned way with a sphygmomanometer.  Exact same result.  She was astonished.

My current weight and BP at a checkup last week was weight 64 - 65 kgs and my BP was BP was 111/62 and I'm 74 years old.

Congratulations.

 

Did you go down to 47kg at one points? [102 - 55 = 47]

[Irrumator]

42 minutes ago, asf6 said:

Congratulations.

 

Did you go down to 47kg at one points? [102 - 55 = 47]

No, I went to the UK three times and put a mountain of weight on in each 4 week visit due to the rubbish food in the UK, from which there is little escape, so had to lose that weight again on my return.  There's your discrepancy - and my lowest weight was down to 63 kgs.  I'm currently 64.5, 6 years on.

And where you got 55 from I do not know.  I assume that was the TOTAL lost including the extra gains when I went to the UK those 3 times - 24 kgs in total over 3 visits which all had to be lst again.  

[Irrumator]

59 minutes ago, bignok said:

How much do you bench press? 

I don't.  Why do you even ask?  No need to if you stick to a proper diet.  

[Irrumator]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:13 AM, scubascuba3 said:

I think you replied with the same thing a couple weeks ago, age 74 not 74kg

So you didn't read accurately then?

[bignok]

1 hour ago, Irrumator said:

I don't.  Why do you even ask?  No need to if you stick to a proper diet.  

Because strength matters. Being skinny is not a sign of good health.

 

 

[bignok]

1 hour ago, Irrumator said:

No, I went to the UK three times and put a mountain of weight on in each 4 week visit due to the rubbish food in the UK, from which there is little escape, so had to lose that weight again on my return.  There's your discrepancy - and my lowest weight was down to 63 kgs.  I'm currently 64.5, 6 years on.

And where you got 55 from I do not know.  I assume that was the TOTAL lost including the extra gains when I went to the UK those 3 times - 24 kgs in total over 3 visits which all had to be lst again.  

What is the obession with weight? 64kgs is very light for a man.

[bignok]

Roger Federer is 85kgs. Why would a man want to be more light than that?

 

 

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, bignok said:

What is the obession with weight? 64kgs is very light for a man.

Depends how tall you are, and your muscle mass.  

19 minutes ago, bignok said:

Roger Federer is 85kgs. Why would a man want to be more light than that?

That's a good weight for him, 185cm.  Normal looking muscle mass needed for a tennis playing.   If this photo is 85kg, he has a wee bit extra.

 

I'm 175cm, and OK muscle mass, which gives me a little extra, if sick, as about the same weight, @ 80-84kg.  I wouldn't want to go below 75, way too small for me, and if I worked out a bit, 85 would be looking buff.  Too lazy for that, so I try to stay closer to 80kg.  Was 78 last year or so, and felt small.  I don't mind a few extra.