Charlie Kirk Says Gun Deaths 'Unfortunately' Worth it to Keep 2nd Amendment

[Hanaguma]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I'm English and I loved it.

IF you are the one holding the gun, it sounds like an orgasm.  If you are the scumbag burglar crouching in the kitchen of a house, not so much.

[LosLobo]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The 1996 law in Australia did little to change the murder rate, or the suicide rate.  They were already dropping, and continued to drop after the law was implemented.  No causal relation has ever been proven between the two.  They also resulted in only about a 20% reduction in the number of guns in private hands, so hardly a strict gun ban.  

Yet, Australia didn't have another mass murder shooting for another 23 years.

 

You haven't mentioned the point of a gun ban, stopping gun deaths!

[jvs]

14 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Yes, in the middle of third world countries and countries at war.

 

US has three times more homicides than Canada and five times more than UK or Australia.

 

UK and Australia have both implemented strict gun bans.

@LosLobo, what you quoted is not mine,something went wrong i think.

 

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, LosLobo said:

Yet, Australia didn't have another mass murder shooting for another 23 years.

 

You haven't mentioned the point of a gun ban, stopping gun deaths!

Mass murders, though tragic, are meaningless statistically. Ten individual murders are just as heinous as one mass murder of 10 people.

 

No evidence that the limited ban and buyback in Oz stopped any deaths.  The murder rate by firearm had been decreasing before the ban, and continued to decrease at the same rate after the ban.

[johnnybangkok]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Mass murders, though tragic, are meaningless statistically. Ten individual murders are just as heinous as one mass murder of 10 people.

 

No evidence that the limited ban and buyback in Oz stopped any deaths.  The murder rate by firearm had been decreasing before the ban, and continued to decrease at the same rate after the ban.

Well I for one am convinced and will now completely change my mind and say absolutely nothing should be done to restrict fire-arms sales in any country, anywhere in the world. In fact I think everyone should be given one on arrival at the airport.

I will of course have to invest in a new bullet-proof vest, face-guard and leg guards for my kid to wear to school every day but I think you'll agree that's a small price to pay if it allows fully grown men to run around the countryside playing shooty, shooty bang bang. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

IF you are the one holding the gun, it sounds like an orgasm.  If you are the scumbag burglar crouching in the kitchen of a house, not so much.

Yeah well the world is full of scumbags.

I would like to own guns again but I understand the strict rules here on Thailand as for me owning a gun.

I have compromised with getting to love Archery.  

I have a exact Japanese copy of a Glock 17 and have the use of a Gamo air-rifle owned by my nephew in-law.

I like weaponry.

[Pink Mist]

Off topic and misquoted posts have been removed.

[LosLobo]

25 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Mass murders, though tragic, are meaningless statistically. Ten individual murders are just as heinous as one mass murder of 10 people.

 

No evidence that the limited ban and buyback in Oz stopped any deaths.  The murder rate by firearm had been decreasing before the ban, and continued to decrease at the same rate after the ban.

A "statistically meaningless" mass shooting of 13 people happening in Kentucky yesterday!

 

Obviously all those involved are just making a big fuss over "statistically" nothing!

 

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

A "statistically meaningless" mass shooting of 13 people happening in Kentucky yesterday!

 

Obviously all those involved are just making a big fuss over "statistically" nothing!

 

I think the argument would go if .....1, 2, 3, of those 13 good people were carrying a gun it would be a different story that how I see the thinking of tragedy guns crimes arguing goes. . 

[Hanaguma]

11 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

A "statistically meaningless" mass shooting of 13 people happening in Kentucky yesterday!

 

Obviously all those involved are just making a big fuss over "statistically" nothing!

 

Again, five murders at once or five murders over five days, the same thing.  One gets headlines but both are equally bad. City of Chicago had 20 shooting victims this weekend, 21 last weekend, but somehow gets no headlines.

[LosLobo]

42 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Mass murders, though tragic, are meaningless statistically. Ten individual murders are just as heinous as one mass murder of 10 people.

 

No evidence that the limited ban and buyback in Oz stopped any deaths.  The murder rate by firearm had been decreasing before the ban, and continued to decrease at the same rate after the ban.

 

43 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Mass murders, though tragic, are meaningless statistically. Ten individual murders are just as heinous as one mass murder of 10 people.

 

No evidence that the limited ban and buyback in Oz stopped any deaths.  The murder rate by firearm had been decreasing before the ban, and continued to decrease at the same rate after the ban.

You keep referencing mass murders and deaths omitting any reference to guns which is the point of a gun ban obviously to wordsmith your case.

 

If you omitted this ploy your post would be meaningless.

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

 

You keep referencing mass murders and deaths omitting any reference to guns which is the point of a gun ban obviously to wordsmith your case.

 

If you omitted this ploy your post would be meaningless.

Unless you ban every firearm (which no country on earth has done to my knowledge) then "banning" certain types of firearm will do nothing to alleviate the problem.  A shooter who is deprived of an AR15 would simply use 2 or 3 extra pistols (same weight to carry) and also easier to use indoors.  So removing the AR does nothing to remove the problem. It DOES deprive millions of people their safe and legal property though.

[transam]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

In the US that horse has long left the barn.  How many of the 8 million Americans who own AR rifles do you think would voluntarily surrender them to authorities? Never mind the tens of millions of others with handguns, shotguns, etc?   Banning and confiscation are not the answers, they simply won't work. 

So, you are saying, we will not or cannot make a start, just carry on being adult school kids, and folk being sent to an early grave is part of USA life..........

[transam]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

You forgot to say you have to have a shotgun licence as well also home interviewed and show the gun police department where and how secure the shotguns are and how secure the house is and where the guns are kept. 

 

There's lot more to it and guns you own are listed on your licence.

 

Ammunition has to be safely stored and seperatly from the gun cabinet.

 

I was last checked in 2004 before I left for Thailand and the gun police department were getting very strict at every renewal time for the shotgun licence.

 

Ask any UK police person in UK involved with guns and they will say they don't like shotguns.

 

Your not usually shooting a gun at a person a mile away. 

Yep, I had a gun safe, visits from the police. I still have my old licence here, guns/ammo listed on it, even had my own reloading apparatus......

[Hanaguma]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

So, you are saying, we will not or cannot make a start, just carry on being adult school kids, and folk being sent to an early grave is part of USA life..........

Quote

 

No, I am saying the place to start is not simplistic and ineffective things like calling for bans on certain guns. You are right, it is a thorny problem and will require long term and stubborn thinking. Mental health awareness, training, and if necessary hospitalizing people before they can cause havoc.  Longer and mandatory prison sentences for crimes committed with firearms or even illegal possession of them. And yes, I would be a fan of background checks too.

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, transam said:

So, you are saying, we will not or cannot make a start, just carry on being adult school kids, and folk being sent to an early grave is part of USA life..........

A simple start would be here:

 

A Justice Department study of the assault weapons ban found that it was responsible for a 6.7% decrease in total gun murders, holding all other factors equal.

Source: Jeffrey A. Roth & Christopher S. Koper, “Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994,” (March 1997).

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary

[transam]

Interesting link regarding the USA gun stuff, scroll down to the listings...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, transam said:

Yep, I had a gun safe, visits from the police. I still have my old licence here, guns/ammo listed on it, even had my own reloading apparatus......

Funny I kept my UK Shotgun licence showed it to gun shop in Phitsanulok and they told me get your wife to aplied for a gun licence. ????????

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

A simple start would be here:

 

A Justice Department study of the assault weapons ban found that it was responsible for a 6.7% decrease in total gun murders, holding all other factors equal.

Source: Jeffrey A. Roth & Christopher S. Koper, “Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994,” (March 1997).

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary

Senator Feinstein? Not exactly an unbiased source.

 

Rand Corporation disagrees. Inconclusive, according to them. 

 

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/ban-assault-weapons/mass-shootings.html

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Senator Feinstein? Not exactly an unbiased source.

 

Rand Corporation disagrees. Inconclusive, according to them. 

 

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/ban-assault-weapons/mass-shootings.html

Did you read the DOJ study? The authors are not Feinstein.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Did you read the DOJ study? The authors are not Feinstein.

The DOJ study was from 1997, just three years after the bill was passed. Far too soon to be able to measure the results.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, riclag said:

Thanks for helping to inform those

who are hell bent on banning scary

looking rifles ! 

Back in the day I had many rifles for sport and hunting ,all safely tucked away in a locked metal gun closet ,unfortunately my youngest was diagnosed with a severe mental disorder and I thought it best to sell them! Looking back I should of sold my kids baseball bats too, I had no idea as to the potential danger those could cause.

 

If I lived in the states again I would buy a weapon for protection instead of sport and hunting! I wish I could have one here.

 

 

Americans buy guns for personal security, hunting and sport. A survey by Gallup in 2021 found that 88 percent of gun owners bought guns for self-defence, much higher than 67 percent in 2005.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/us-gun-violence-explainer-why-americans-own-arms-and-how-weapons-manufacturers-influence-culture-13707052.htm#

Hanaguma is posting rubbish with no links yet again.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, LosLobo said:

 

You keep referencing mass murders and deaths omitting any reference to guns which is the point of a gun ban obviously to wordsmith your case.

 

If you omitted this ploy your post would be meaningless.

Most of his posts are meaningless anyway.

 

He has been on my ignore list for ages

[still kicking]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Interesting link regarding the USA gun stuff, scroll down to the listings...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

168 mass shootings so far in 1 year

[still kicking]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Mass murders, though tragic, are meaningless statistically. Ten individual murders are just as heinous as one mass murder of 10 people.

 

No evidence that the limited ban and buyback in Oz stopped any deaths.  The murder rate by firearm had been decreasing before the ban, and continued to decrease at the same rate after the ban.

You got no idea at all 

[still kicking]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Mass murders, though tragic, are meaningless statistically. Ten individual murders are just as heinous as one mass murder of 10 people.

 

No evidence that the limited ban and buyback in Oz stopped any deaths.  The murder rate by firearm had been decreasing before the ban, and continued to decrease at the same rate after the ban.

Australia has had no mass shootings since 1996.

Australia marks 25 years since worst mass shooting | Reuters

Does that answer your ridicules post 

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, still kicking said:

Australia has had no mass shootings since 1996.

Australia marks 25 years since worst mass shooting | Reuters

Does that answer your ridicules post 

No it doesn't.  The murder rate is the important number, not the manner in which the murders occur.  As in most places, the horrible crimes that make headlines have very little impact on the raw statistics. Reducing mass shootings while not impacting the overall crime rate is no accomplishment.

[Hanaguma]

17 minutes ago, still kicking said:

You got no idea at all 

OK, then educate me. What impact did the restrictions have on crime, murder, etc?

[still kicking]

14 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

OK, then educate me. What impact did the restrictions have on crime, murder, etc?

• includes suicide 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

The DOJ study was from 1997, just three years after the bill was passed. Far too soon to be able to measure the results.

3 years gives a very good initial picture that you'd rather obviously ignore as it's just not with the narrative you've been posting