1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

I'm actually saying the opposite. It makes no difference what the USA says or does. Their attempts at foreign interference have failed too many times therefore that ship has sailed. 

 

If China wants to invade Taiwan then it will. I believe they will. Biden can blow as much hot air as he likes.

Or he can supply with enough armaments to discourage China from making the attempt.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I'm actually saying the opposite. It makes no difference what the USA says or does. Their attempts at foreign interference have failed too many times therefore that ship has sailed. 

 

If China wants to invade Taiwan then it will. I believe they will. Biden can blow as much hot air as he likes.

Hopefully China has a better grasp of the consequences of such an action than you do.

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

Or he can supply with enough armaments to discourage China from making the attempt.

And indeed, drip-feed weapons to Taiwan when or if China launches the attack.  And drip-feeding weapons, that's what NATO is dishing out to Ukraine right now.

And what happens ?  The conflict is pro-longed, it continues. When will see an end to the war in Ukraine ?  If violence breaks out between the two Chinas, let's hope it doesn't go on for months and months. The longer the conflict goes on, the more damaging it becomes across planet earth.

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Hopefully China has a better grasp of the consequences of such an action than you do.

 And I hope that the US government has got a good grasp of the consequences.

What's America going to do when the civil between the Chinese re-starts ?

Washington has refused to send soldiers to Ukraine, that's because sending soldiers will trigger World War Three. We're all in agreement that sending NATO soldiers to fight in Ukraine will be disastrous and catastrophic. Instead, NATO and others have drip-fed weapons to Ukraine, which continues the war. It's good for nobody.

And about Taiwan ?  Will Washington trigger World War Three if the Chinese civil war re-starts ? I hope Washington does not. Do note that when or if World War Three starts, Russia and China will be on the same side. It's not going to be America and Russia fighting against China.  And China is not going to side with America against Russia.

Sending US soldiers to fight in China's civil war will be just as disastrous and catastrophic as sending NATO soldiers to fight in Ukraine. So ?  Drip-feed weapons to Taiwan ?  War is not going to be over in a few weeks or months, it will carry on.
And the longer the Chinese civil war goes on, the more damage to planet earth, including America. China's population is not going to rise up against Beijing due to the shortage of computer chips.  ????

By the way, people who know about China will say, Chinese in China actually back Beijing just as much, or more than, Americans backing Washington. It's absurd to claim that Chinese are desperate to remove the Beijing government.

The computer chip shortage ?  Yes, America and other countries will go into economic depression, and descend into anarchy. But Beijing will make sure China does not descend into anarchy. Washington might be powerless to stop anarchy breaking out in America.

Let's hope Washington will act wisely.   ????

21 hours ago, talahtnut said:

You've been reading an American magazine publication,

thats the version of history you would expect:  'Pompeo

deserves thanks for countering those narratives, and

for looking at Taiwan in its own right and its own light.'

Yeah, trust Fatty Pompeo, or any member of the establishment

to propagandise anti-China sentiment. There are two classes

of people, Those that hate China, and Those that have been there.

 

 

here are just 3 of About 57,600,000 results (0.53 seconds) for you to read.

 

https://www.the-low-countries.com/article/young-taiwanese-had-to-learn-dutch-at-school-in-the-seventeenth-century#:~:text=Eventually%2C in 1624%2C the Dutch,for trading with Chinese merchants.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_pacification_campaign_on_Formosa

 

Of course you believe that they are all American magazine publications and not worth reading.

 

Do you have any links to say that these are incorrect?

 

50 minutes ago, billd766 said:

here are just 3 of About 57,600,000 results (0.53 seconds) for you to read.

 

https://www.the-low-countries.com/article/young-taiwanese-had-to-learn-dutch-at-school-in-the-seventeenth-century#:~:text=Eventually%2C in 1624%2C the Dutch,for trading with Chinese merchants.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_pacification_campaign_on_Formosa

 

Of course you believe that they are all American magazine publications and not worth reading.

 

Do you have any links to say that these are incorrect?

 

What on earth does all this mean ?   Are we trying to say that, it would be best to give Taiwan back to Holland ?   Yes, if the Dutch got there before the Chinese, then Holland should have it, not China ?    ????

Anybody looking at Taiwan today will notice that they look the same as the Chinese in mainland China. That's because they are the same.
So, how about we keep it simple; anybody who looks Chinese is, is Chinese ?

A lot of people don't realise that about one or two percent of the people in Taiwan are not actually Chinese. These non-Chinese are actually indigenous to Taiwan. Yes, for hundreds of years now, Chinese have been leaving China, turning up in Taiwan, and staying there.

It might be said, that, Chinese have been carrying out mass murder and mass theft of land in Taiwan for centuries.  Bit like Britain doing stuff in Australia and New Zealand.   ????

So, what about this ?  Planet earth gets together, and we expel the Chinese out of Taiwan. That's about 98% of Taiwan's population.  Send these people back to their home, yes, China.  And it becomes Beijing's problem as to what to do with these Chinese once they're back in China.

This idea might solve the Taiwan problem.    ????

Edited April 18, 20233 yr by tonbridgebrit

On 4/15/2023 at 3:14 PM, gargamon said:

And which of those do you think implies that China should have dominance over Taiwan? I could generate similar examples for many countries. 

 

Taiwan ROC Constitution states that Taiwan Formosa island is part of China and Mainland is also part of China, and both Formosa island and the mainland are ROC ( China too ) territory.   

 

In late March-Early April 2023  ---  just weeks ago,   Ex Taiwan ROC President, Mr. Ma openly and repeatedly talked about this Constitution within the mainland where he was staying for an informal visit for 12 days.     Mr. Ma,  who graduated with PhD degree in Harvard U in 1970/80's,   was of course speaking in Mandarin language about this Constitution weeks ago.     

 

You were unaware and  ignorance ( and Naive too )  about it,  so be it . 

 

PRC of course states that both mainland and Taiwan are China.  

Any countries ( including USA and at lease 160 countries )   signing on diplomatic relationship with Beijing  had agreed in writing of ONE CHINA policy noting Taiwan is part of China. 

17 hours ago, heybruce said:

"In other words, the desire for war against China is not actually about protecting Chinese on some island off the coast of China. It's about hatred towards Chinese, wanting to clip China's wings."

 

Now your being childish.  The desire is to prevent war with China and allow the people of Taiwan to choose their own government.  The fact that Taiwan has become a critical piece of the modern world economy gives this desire great urgency.

Taiwan Is NOT a critical piece of the modern world economy.  

That is false narrative by you. 

 

China is currently manufacturing chips for aircrafts, automobiles, computers, appliance etc

China is doing it for domestic use and export as well. 

China still cannot produce the smallest chip needed for compacity of the hand phones. 

Taiwan TSMC is the smallest size 

59 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

So, how about we keep it simple; anybody who looks Chinese is, is Chinese ?

Finally someone who agrees that the Austrians are just Germans and an invasion of Austria would be an internal german affair. Also all those blacks in the USA are african and not american. Things get so much easier when we think like a racist! Just ignore what the actual people think and decide for them!

17 hours ago, heybruce said:

"In other words, the desire for war against China is not actually about protecting Chinese on some island off the coast of China. It's about hatred towards Chinese, wanting to clip China's wings."

 

Now your being childish.  The desire is to prevent war with China and allow the people of Taiwan to choose their own government.  The fact that Taiwan has become a critical piece of the modern world economy gives this desire great urgency.

USA Government can choose Beijing or Taipei,  all up to the Americans. 

 

But USA recognizes Beijing diplomatically and agrees to ONE China policy,  

so how Taiwan  and mainland China deals in which way they choose is NONE of American business 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 4/12/2023 at 4:04 AM, placeholder said:

As much as I hate to agree with vandenventer about anything, i think there is a good chance that China will go ahead and do it. They see that the US is far more antagonistic to China than it was under the Trump administration. Trump may have talked big because he's a blowhard, but the steps he authorized didn't amount to much compared to what the Biden administration has done.  And the Biden administration has committed itself to strengthening Taiwan. So the longer China waits the harder it's going to get to invade. I just hope the Taiwanese have their chip factories mined and ready to be blown up if China does go ahead with it.

 

On April 6, 2023,  Xi had informed EU Ursula Van face-to-face in Beijing that outsiders thinking of affecting how Mainland deals with Taiwan is completely OUT of line no matter the circumstances.   EU Ursula and France Macron were meeting Xi respectively and also together then. 

 

 

So you think it matters about Biden or Trump or whoever else would affect Beijing plan ?    You had better read some NON-Western media a/or Non-English language media  rather than without the facts. 

 

 

1 hour ago, sscc said:

 

On April 6, 2023,  Xi had informed EU Ursula Van face-to-face in Beijing that outsiders thinking of affecting how Mainland deals with Taiwan is completely OUT of line no matter the circumstances.   EU Ursula and France Macron were meeting Xi respectively and also together then. 

 

 

So you think it matters about Biden or Trump or whoever else would affect Beijing plan ?    You had better read some NON-Western media a/or Non-English language media  rather than without the facts. 

 

 

And yes, a link from yahoo news. Emmanuel Macron of France certainly is being sensible.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/macrons-china-remarks-exasperate-eu-161233362.html

From the above article   "In an interview with French daily Les Echos and news platform Politico, Macron warned against Europe being dragged into a conflict between Washington and Beijing.  "

And also "If the stand-off over Taiwan accelerates, he said, Europe might not have the time nor the resources to build the "strategic autonomy" to act without US leadership that France seeks. "
 

 

Edited April 18, 20233 yr by tonbridgebrit

Petagon simulations of war with China predict that

the Pacific Fleet will be blown out of the water in

day one.  So what is the US deep state up to? Could

it be the final distraction whilst the Empire is deliberately

collapsed, conditions at home are right for it, the petro-

dollar is on the way out, lawlessnes, immigrants flooding in,

immorality increasing, cost of living, astronomical

national debt, etc.

Its beginning to look like the war is against you Americans.

Empires usually collapse at around the 250 years mark.

 

2 hours ago, sscc said:

On April 6, 2023,  Xi had informed EU Ursula Van face-to-face in Beijing that outsiders thinking of affecting how Mainland deals with Taiwan is completely OUT of line no matter the circumstances.   EU Ursula and France Macron were meeting Xi respectively and also together then. 

 

Yes, it was amusing to me that Macron was treated with respect,

but Ursula Fond of Lying had to go through airport security and

catch a train eventually meeting a lesser government official.

Please post sources if you're making these claims.

52 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Petagon simulations of war with China predict that

the Pacific Fleet will be blown out of the water in

day one.

 

7 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 And I hope that the US government has got a good grasp of the consequences.

What's America going to do when the civil between the Chinese re-starts ?

Washington has refused to send soldiers to Ukraine, that's because sending soldiers will trigger World War Three. We're all in agreement that sending NATO soldiers to fight in Ukraine will be disastrous and catastrophic. Instead, NATO and others have drip-fed weapons to Ukraine, which continues the war. It's good for nobody.

And about Taiwan ?  Will Washington trigger World War Three if the Chinese civil war re-starts ? I hope Washington does not. Do note that when or if World War Three starts, Russia and China will be on the same side. It's not going to be America and Russia fighting against China.  And China is not going to side with America against Russia.

Sending US soldiers to fight in China's civil war will be just as disastrous and catastrophic as sending NATO soldiers to fight in Ukraine. So ?  Drip-feed weapons to Taiwan ?  War is not going to be over in a few weeks or months, it will carry on.
And the longer the Chinese civil war goes on, the more damage to planet earth, including America. China's population is not going to rise up against Beijing due to the shortage of computer chips.  ????

By the way, people who know about China will say, Chinese in China actually back Beijing just as much, or more than, Americans backing Washington. It's absurd to claim that Chinese are desperate to remove the Beijing government.

The computer chip shortage ?  Yes, America and other countries will go into economic depression, and descend into anarchy. But Beijing will make sure China does not descend into anarchy. Washington might be powerless to stop anarchy breaking out in America.

Let's hope Washington will act wisely.   ????

Your start with the assumption that "civil war" will break out between China and Taiwan, and suggest that the US will go all in.  Rather than my getting into all your hypotheticals beyond that point, why don't you  justify those two assumptions?

7 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And indeed, drip-feed weapons to Taiwan when or if China launches the attack.  And drip-feeding weapons, that's what NATO is dishing out to Ukraine right now.

And what happens ?  The conflict is pro-longed, it continues. When will see an end to the war in Ukraine ?  If violence breaks out between the two Chinas, let's hope it doesn't go on for months and months. The longer the conflict goes on, the more damaging it becomes across planet earth.

"drip-feeding weapons"?  I'm sure this is asking too much, but try to inform yourself before posting.

 

Neither Russia, Ukraine, or allies on either side knew how much weaponry the conflict would require.  Neither side or their allies had the mountains of spare munitions lying around that the uninformed seem to thing are there.  Neither side, or their allies, can immediately ramp up production of these weapons; it will take years to replace what has been used.

5 hours ago, sscc said:

Taiwan Is NOT a critical piece of the modern world economy.  

That is false narrative by you. 

 

China is currently manufacturing chips for aircrafts, automobiles, computers, appliance etc

China is doing it for domestic use and export as well. 

China still cannot produce the smallest chip needed for compacity of the hand phones. 

Taiwan TSMC is the smallest size 

This was addressed earlier in the topic:  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/16/2-charts-show-how-much-the-world-depends-on-taiwan-for-semiconductors.html

 

If China is self-sufficient in chip manufacturing, why are they so upset on the restrictions on imports of chips and chip manufacturing technology imposed by the US?

5 hours ago, sscc said:

USA Government can choose Beijing or Taipei,  all up to the Americans. 

 

But USA recognizes Beijing diplomatically and agrees to ONE China policy,  

so how Taiwan  and mainland China deals in which way they choose is NONE of American business

Actually it's China that claims it doesn't interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, but it is very flexible on what it considers interference when it comes to what it claims are "traditional" Chinese territories.

 

The US has made commitments to help Taiwan defend itself from a Chinese attack, and the US will keep these commitments.  That is why China hasn't attacked.

A troll post has been removed.

3 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Petagon simulations of war with China predict that

the Pacific Fleet will be blown out of the water in

day one.  So what is the US deep state up to? Could

it be the final distraction whilst the Empire is deliberately

collapsed, conditions at home are right for it, the petro-

dollar is on the way out, lawlessnes, immigrants flooding in,

immorality increasing, cost of living, astronomical

national debt, etc.

Its beginning to look like the war is against you Americans.

Empires usually collapse at around the 250 years mark.

 

What are your sources for these "Petagon simulations"?

9 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Wow, you guys have been exceedingly well trained,

I'm impressed.

I must admit there is a conspiracy. Indeed there

always is, as an unavoidable part of human nature.

So keep blinkered, sit back and enjoy what unfolds.

 

 

Right.....  You can't back up what you post, so you accuse other people of not knowing what is going on.

Unattributed troll posts leading to bickering and baiting have been removed also replies.

On 4/12/2023 at 6:19 PM, placeholder said:

They might think it's a good time. What with the US providing so much aid to Ukraine. I'm not saying it will happen. But I wouldn't rule it out, either. And I guess we should see if China is building up an invasion force on the mainland opposite Taiwan. If they were, I would expect the Biden administration to do what it so brilliantly in the case of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Long before Russia invaded, the Biden administration predicted it was going to invade.

They invaded after Biden won. Biden is weak with memory problems.

On 4/19/2023 at 5:06 AM, heybruce said:

Actually it's China that claims it doesn't interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, but it is very flexible on what it considers interference when it comes to what it claims are "traditional" Chinese territories.

 

The US has made commitments to help Taiwan defend itself from a Chinese attack, and the US will keep these commitments.  That is why China hasn't attacked.

People have talked about this for 40 years. China is about money. They use force as a decoy.

27 minutes ago, bignok said:

They invaded after Biden won. Biden is weak with memory problems.

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc"

"After this therefore because of this"

It's a logical fallacy that is a particular feature of simplistic thinking. Believe it or not, what happens in the world does not necessarily depend on who the President of the United States is.

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc"

"After this therefore because of this"

It's a logical fallacy that is a particular feature of simplistic thinking. Believe it or not, what happens in the world does not necessarily depend on who the President of the United States is.

Biden is weak. Putin went soon after. Everyone knows this.

Just now, bignok said:

Biden is weak. Putin went soon after. Everyone knows this.

Whenever I see the phrase 'everyone knows this"or "everyone knows that"  it's a pretty fair bet that it's authored by someone who has a very strong belief with no facts to back it up.

Off topic posts and replies removed

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-foreign-minister-says-preparing-115200315.html


The above article is from the Independent newspaper. Okay,  " Taiwan’s foreign minister has expressed his concerns regarding the possibility of conflict with China in 2027, stating that the island nation is taking the Chinese military threat seriously. "

So, 2027 is the big year, that's four years from now. Let's hope that in four years time, most of the world's computer chips will be manufactured in China, California and Britain. That way, when Peoples' Republic of China re-starts it's civil war with Republic of China, well, there's no need for America's soldiers to see action. Great.