bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, n00dle said: no indeed, and a renualt dechevaux will get you from A to B. but are you really so simple that you cant see there is a distinction? Is your experince that limited, that some people who can afford it want more than the basics. My $100 watch does more than $20,000 watches. Only posers spend $20,000 on a watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00dle Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, bignok said: My $100 watch does more than $20,000 watches. Only posers spend $20,000 on a watch. yes indeed. your way is the only sensible way. there is no resaon for someone to enjoy the fuits of their labours if they can afford something high quality. they should all live like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, n00dle said: yes indeed. your way is the only sensible way. there is no resaon for someone to enjoy the fuits of their labours if they can afford something high quality. they should all live like you. Watches are like wine. Over a certain price just a rip off. Expensive watches are pretty but rather impractical with little in the way of features. They aren't very usual at all. Casio, Seiko and Citizen make some great watches in the us$100 to us500 price bracket. Loads of features and heavy duty. Expensive watches are manual so require servicing and have less features. If people want to waste thousands on a watch that nobody else cares about good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said: That depends on the watch and your perspective. A lot of people don’t ‘buy’ these watches, they transfer one asset into another which makes money. It could be argued that for AP, Rolex, Patek and ’some’ Omega Models people wear these watches for free... (actually, they profit). Others wear them because they enjoy them so much... US$50,000 seems ridiculous IMO, but thats because I don't have US$50,000 to blow on a watch... But, $30,000 on a watch which may still be worth $30,000 in 5 years time, or even increase to $45,000 in two years time is not a poor investment, but like any investment, theres a risk. Other than that there are just some really nice watches out there, if thats your thing - if its not your thing, its difficult to understand... Thats ‘art’ for me, I just don’t get it, I guess I never will. But some will spend money on a piece of art that makes them happy, that artwork my go up in value or it may hold or depreciate, but, if the owner likes it and enjoys the work then there is something more to the equation than simply how much it cost. I’m not saying owning an expensive watch is a great idea... I’m simply pointing out that those who do not an are critical simply don’t get it. Its like wine, some take enjoyment from really nice wines (which can be pricey)... meanwhile there are those who’ll comment "whats the point?, you can still get drunk in Gibleys Vodka".... ... and thats my point here... We’re reading a lot of comments from the ‘Gibley’s vodka guys’ who don’t get it. Only limited editions that go up in price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herfiehandbag Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, toofarnorth said: After my first holiday here I bought a fake Rolex . On arriving home the thing ground to a stop so I went to a watch shop and asked for my Rolex to be cleaned. Chap said if he sent the watch to Rolex it would come back smashed . I replied " I hope it's not a fake I paid 12 quid for it ". I hade a fake Rolex for several years. Eventually the battery packed up. I took it into a jewellers in Bath - "House of Tupra", window display was remarkable, everything swathed in purple satin, looked like a cross between a Maltese knocking shop and the set for a Fry's Turkish Delight commercial! Anyway the frightfully refined assistant called the manager, who announced he was going to smash it as it was a fake. I replied that of course it was a fake, we both know that you don't buy Rolex watches for B500 from street traders, now was he prepared to replace the battery? Nevertheless he insisted that he would smash it, until I pointed out that retaining the watch would be theft, and smashing it would be criminal damage, both of which I would report to the police. I think it is fair to say that we did not part as best of friends. Edited May 9, 2023 by herfiehandbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, bignok said: Watches are like wine. Over a certain price just a rip off. Expensive watches are pretty but rather impractical with little in the way of features. They aren't very usual at all. Casio, Seiko and Citizen make some great watches in the us$100 to us500 price bracket. Loads of features and heavy duty. Expensive watches are manual so require servicing and have less features. If people want to waste thousands on a watch that nobody else cares about good for them. Waste >?... that depends on the Watch (particularly the Brand).... most Rolex, Patek, Audemars Piguet and some Omega do not depreciate (from RRP that is)... ... So, spending more on that Rolex may be a wiser choice than a Seiko or Citizen... That said, if someone else is never going to sell, then its irrelevant - the cost is a lot more... other issues also come into the fray regarding being 'owned by what you own’... i.e. having to lock it away etc, rather than just throwing a cheap watch on the bedside table and not worrying if housekeeping are going to nick it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, bignok said: Only limited editions that go up in price. No.. Pretty much every mens Rolex and all AP and Pateks appreciate... Some Omega (limited editions) go up... Thats the issue with these watches... they’re extremely difficult to get hold of from Authorised dealers because they are such a reliable appreciating asset. This has spawned a huge ‘re-sale’ industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said: Waste >?... that depends on the Watch (particularly the Brand).... most Rolex, Patek, Audemars Piguet and some Omega do not depreciate (from RRP that is)... ... So, spending more on that Rolex may be a wiser choice than a Seiko or Citizen... That said, if someone else is never going to sell, then its irrelevant - the cost is a lot more... other issues also come into the fray regarding being 'owned by what you own’... i.e. having to lock it away etc, rather than just throwing a cheap watch on the bedside table and not worrying if housekeeping are going to nick it.... https://timeandtidewatches.com/key-insights-into-the-secondary-watch-market/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, richard_smith237 said: No.. Pretty much every mens Rolex and all AP and Pateks appreciate... Some Omega (limited editions) go up... Thats the issue with these watches... they’re extremely difficult to get hold of from Authorised dealers because they are such a reliable appreciating asset. This has spawned a huge ‘re-sale’ industry. Hard to get hold of means limited supply. So rather limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 https://timeandtidewatches.com/key-insights-into-the-secondary-watch-market/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, bignok said: My $100 watch does more than $20,000 watches. So does my Apple Watch... Except appreciate in value... The cheapest watch I ever owned was a Rolex Explorer II (I think I made about US$3000 on it when I sold it last year). 18 minutes ago, bignok said: Only posers spend $20,000 on a watch. Enjoy your Gibley’s vodka !!! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said: So does my Apple Watch... Except appreciate in value... The cheapest watch I ever owned was a Rolex Explorer II (I think I made about US$3000 on it when I sold it last year). Enjoy your Gibley’s vodka !!! ???? Never heard of Gibley. Apple watches are junk imo. Seiko dive watches plus Casio Mudmasters are good. Get a solar one it lasts 10 years. $10 a year. The diagram above shows most Rolexes lost value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, bignok said: https://timeandtidewatches.com/key-insights-into-the-secondary-watch-market/ Thats the second hand market... where the values had tripled last year, so this year they have depreciated from that ’tripling’... IF you want to intelligently evaluate the appreciation compare RRP to the price on the current second hand market and you’ll see that these models are pretty much double their RRP. The issue of course is that the in the current market getting hold of Rolex, AP and Pateks from Authorised Dealers is extremely difficult. Now, that there is a ‘new model’ of daytona the previous models are projected to go up in value by approximately 150% from their current second hand value over the next couple of years. As is the Milgauss model which was discontinued this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZELL Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: Geez... some guys... talk about being pedantic... You know exactly what he means. Well, facts matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said: Thats the second hand market... where the values had tripled last year, so this year they have depreciated from that ’tripling’... IF you want to intelligently evaluate the appreciation compare RRP to the price on the current second hand market and you’ll see that these models are pretty much double their RRP. The issue of course is that the in the current market getting hold of Rolex, AP and Pateks from Authorised Dealers is extremely difficult. Now, that there is a ‘new model’ of daytona the previous models are projected to go up in value by approximately 150% from their current second hand value over the next couple of years. As is the Milgauss model which was discontinued this year. Most predictions are wrong. All a guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZELL Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said: Thats the second hand market... where the values had tripled last year, so this year they have depreciated from that ’tripling’... IF you want to intelligently evaluate the appreciation compare RRP to the price on the current second hand market and you’ll see that these models are pretty much double their RRP. The issue of course is that the in the current market getting hold of Rolex, AP and Pateks from Authorised Dealers is extremely difficult. Now, that there is a ‘new model’ of daytona the previous models are projected to go up in value by approximately 150% from their current second hand value over the next couple of years. As is the Milgauss model which was discontinued this year. I once saw a YouTube interview with James Dowling, Rolex Legend. In the 90s he was at an auction in New York and "Bubblesbacks" were "the thing" and fetched more than Daytonas. Fashion and tastes change. Although a pretty safe bet to "invest" (I hate that word with regards to watches) in discontinued references. RAZZ Edited May 9, 2023 by RAZZELL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, richard_smith237 said: You like square, others like round... we’re all different. But to call people who understand differently ‘posers’ just highlights your limited outlook. Just pointing out the facts. A lot of cheap watches have more features. Plus you can invest in shares or cypto and make more than any watch. Rather limited outlook to think watches are the best investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, bignok said: Most predictions are wrong. All a guess. Yet, historically the brands I’ve mentioned have an extremely reliable track record for increasing in value... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Mist Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 A post trolling another member has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said: Yet, historically the brands I’ve mentioned have an extremely reliable track record for increasing in value... 8 did really well. Most didnt gain much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Rolex Explorer very basic looking watch. I think Tags normally look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, bignok said: Just pointing out the facts. A lot of cheap watches have more features. Plus you can invest in shares or cypto and make more than any watch. Erm... So you’re suggestion that Rolexes are not a good investment because.. Quote (you): [Most predictions are wrong. All a guess]... and then you use Crypto as an example or something that could be invested in ??? 3 minutes ago, bignok said: Rather limited outlook to think watches are the best investment. Agreed... but no one is suggesting watches are the best investment - those are just your words. The fact is undeniable that such watches (Roles, AP, Patek and some Omega) increase in value - thus, the suggestion made by some on this forum that people who purchase such watches are stupid or just posers is flawed. My argument is that I can fully understand someone who enjoys these watches spending money on them in the same manner a car enthusiast will spend money in his car, an art enthusiast will spend money in a car, especially a classic car... My argument is that those who are criticising those who choose to purchase higher end watches such as Rolex are simply highlighting that they really do not have the capacity to understand those around them and instead project from their own limited experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonJoe Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Wearing a Rolex sceams look at me I'm successful but usually not successful The problem being in thailand you don't want to attract that kinda of attention it could get you robbed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said: Erm... So you’re suggestion that Rolexes are not a good investment because.. Quote (you): [Most predictions are wrong. All a guess]... and then you use Crypto as an example or something that could be invested in ??? Agreed... but no one is suggesting watches are the best investment - those are just your words. The fact is undeniable that such watches (Roles, AP, Patek and some Omega) increase in value - thus, the suggestion made by some on this forum that people who purchase such watches are stupid or just posers is flawed. My argument is that I can fully understand someone who enjoys these watches spending money on them in the same manner a car enthusiast will spend money in his car, an art enthusiast will spend money in a car, especially a classic car... My argument is that those who are criticising those who choose to purchase higher end watches such as Rolex are simply highlighting that they really do not have the capacity to understand those around them and instead project from their own limited experience. I could buy 5 tomorrow. I don't want 1. Too worried about storage. I prefer a daily heavy duty watch. Rolexes are an ok investment, just not the best. Not practical for daily use, need to be serviced which is expensive, risk of theft. It doesnt bother me if people buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BostonJoe said: Wearing a Rolex sceams look at me I'm successful but usually not successful The problem being in thailand you don't want to attract that kinda of attention it could get you robbed As another poster pointed out... there is perhaps greater cause for concern in a place like London. You can only interpret what the watch ‘screams’ to you... to others its different, may be unnoticeable, to others they see a nice watch, but for many its not about what other think anyway, its about how you think / feel yourself and the enjoyment when wearing a nice ‘bit of kit’... Edited May 9, 2023 by richard_smith237 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Off topic posts bickering about posers drinking wine or whiskey have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 34 minutes ago, bignok said: I could buy 5 tomorrow. I don't want 1. Too worried about storage. I prefer a daily heavy duty watch. Rolexes are an ok investment, just not the best. Actually, you couldn’t buy 5 tomorrow.. Not at RRP from an authorised dealer anyway. The re-seller market is if course different, but the prices are elevated about RRP. 34 minutes ago, bignok said: Not practical for daily use, need to be serviced which is expensive, risk of theft. It doesnt bother me if people buy them. But, If I get the chance to buy one at RPP from an Authorised dealer I’ll get as many as I’m permitted to. Ideally, I’d like to buy at least two.. one to wear, one to never wear and keep in the safe... ... Most automatic watches need to be serviced and you are quite right, there is a risk of theft etc... hence ‘being owned by the things you own’, so IF someone doesn’t take specific enjoyment from wearing such watches, then other than the an almost guaranteed investment (from RRP) there is little point in getting one. That said, I wouldn’t suggest those who do take enjoyment out of owning and wearing such watches are, foolish, idiots or even posers as has been suggested numerous times by a number of posters on this thread - people just like and enjoy different things (hence the wine, Whisky, Cars, Classic cars analogy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said: Actually, you couldn’t buy 5 tomorrow.. Not at RRP from an authorised dealer anyway. The re-seller market is if course different, but the prices are elevated about RRP. But, If I get the chance to buy one at RPP from an Authorised dealer I’ll get as many as I’m permitted to. Ideally, I’d like to buy at least two.. one to wear, one to never wear and keep in the safe... ... Most automatic watches need to be serviced and you are quite right, there is a risk of theft etc... hence ‘being owned by the things you own’, so IF someone doesn’t take specific enjoyment from wearing such watches, then other than the an almost guaranteed investment (from RRP) there is little point in getting one. That said, I wouldn’t suggest those who do take enjoyment out of owning and wearing such watches are, foolish, idiots or even posers as has been suggested numerous times by a number of posters on this thread - people just like and enjoy different things (hence the wine, Whisky, Cars, Classic cars analogy). People can think whatever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, bignok said: People can think whatever they want. I know... but that doesnt mean their thinking is based on intelligent critical thought or understanding, often it's based on fundamentally flawed bias. .... some people even think the earth is flat... .... others think people are stupid, idiots, fools and / or posers for owning and wearing items for reasons they don't understand !!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignok Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said: I know... but that doesnt mean their thinking is based on intelligent critical thought or understanding, often it's based on fundamentally flawed bias. .... some people even think the earth is flat... .... others think people are stupid, idiots, fools and / or posers for owning and wearing items for reasons they don't understand !!... Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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