What can be done to make Thai Roads safer?

[Toolong]

Just now, Toolong said:

I think more roundabouts* incorporated into highway design plans would help alleviate the great number of accidents & fatalities that have happened at U-turns. (And it IS a very great number!)

 

Plus, as stated here already by others, proper enforcement of highway rules (ie, trucks restricted to certain lanes  etc.). 

 

Related to keeping in correct lanes is the bad state of roads. Poor road construction + overloaded trucks = messed up left lanes - where trucks should be - resulting in the same trucks then using the other lanes to avoid the bad road surface that they've caused in the left lanes! 

 

*sorry - forgot to add that I can't recall what 'roundabouts' are called in other English-speaking countries. ????

[yeahbutif]

I think most rules are in place for road safety. But implementing them is the big problem. As the I heard the policeman are told what to do on a daily time basic. And if not told to do they won't do..it don't seem like UK where we say a policeman is never off duty....so  law dont care so the people don't care.

[2009]

The only thing that will solve this is if you hit their pockets HARD.

 

Their only weakness is money.

[roo860]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

1 All of the above.

2 All of the above.

 

IMHO most Thais won't change because they understand that driving drunk or too fast is a bad idea. It seems to me they just don't think about it and don't care.

I heard several times from Thais that a relative or friend just died in an accident, maybe on a bike drunk and without helmet. And does that inspire the people at the funeral to wear helmets? Does it inspire them not to drive or ride drunk? No.

Maybe they will buy another amulet or some flowers for their vehicle for protection.

 

If the traffic police would actually do their jobs and fine people all the time with fines which hurt, then I am sure people would drive better. But they would only do it because they don't want to pay fines and not because they think that changing their driving attitude would be a good idea.

 

 

 

 

Correct, amulet saved them, superstitious mumbo jumbo, backward is a better description. 

[NanLaew]

56 minutes ago, Toolong said:

I think more roundabouts* incorporated into highway design plans would help alleviate the great number of accidents & fatalities that have happened at U-turns. (And it IS a very great number!)

 

Plus, as stated here already by others, proper enforcement of highway rules (ie, trucks restricted to certain lanes  etc.). 

 

Related to keeping in correct lanes is the bad state of roads. Poor road construction + overloaded trucks = messed up left lanes - where trucks should be - resulting in the same trucks then using the other lanes to avoid the bad road surface that they've caused in the left lanes! 

 

As someone who has encountered roundabouts in several towns in Thailand, they are not a solution. This is due to most driver's being unaware of their proper use. Right of way and other basic driving principles that we highly skilled expert farang drivers broadly take for granted as 'common sense' doesn't exist with the local drivers.

[Will B Good]

More chance of the Tories being returned with a majority.........but I would stick speed limiters on all cars.......the difference in speed, particularly on motorways, is a killer.

 

That'll have the petrol heads frothing at the mouth.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

You already had a MB license (assuming), so no need to take the driving part, which I'm assuming simply not falling down.   About the same as some USA states.

 

My first car & mb license here also didn't involve much, since having an IDP for both.

I got my Thai scooter license before my Australian one.  I had an agent accompanying me, maybe some money changed hands as well, to smooth the path. At the time, my Thai comprehension was very limited.

It does have me wondering how many Thais are on the roads with a valid license who have never been tested.

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I got my Thai scooter license before my Australian one.  I had an agent accompanying me, maybe some money changed hands as well, to smooth the path. At the time, my Thai comprehension was very limited.

It does have me wondering how many Thais are on the roads with a valid license who have never been tested.

Or no license.  

[BangkokReady]

Quote

What can be done to make Thai Roads safer?

A top to bottom fundamental change within Thai society and culture, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

 

 

[Toolong]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

As someone who has encountered roundabouts in several towns in Thailand, they are not a solution. This is due to most driver's being unaware of their proper use. Right of way and other basic driving principles that we highly skilled expert farang drivers broadly take for granted as 'common sense' doesn't exist with the local drivers.

Yes, I agree that Thais seem a bit uninformed about their use, particularly the 'right of way' issue.

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, yeahbutif said:

I think most rules are in place for road safety. But implementing them is the big problem. As the I heard the policeman are told what to do on a daily time basic. And if not told to do they won't do..it don't seem like UK where we say a policeman is never off duty....so  law dont care so the people don't care.

And it's the people not caring that causes the law not to care...

[quake]

2 hours ago, Toolong said:

I think more roundabouts* incorporated into highway design plans would help alleviate the great number of accidents & fatalities that have happened at U-turns. (And it IS a very great number!)

They are far to selfish and mostly stupid on the roads for them to work here, at present.

( anyone remember the great one in Jomtien second road. ) 

Need to hit them real hard with the money stick.

it's the only thing they truly understand and will act on.

TIT.

 

[Credo]

One of the irritating things about Thai roads is how they are used for everything.  They are a sidewalk for those walking, they have tables set up on them during lunch and after work.  There are all sorts of animals, but mostly dogs on the roads.  Other than the roads that are 5 meters above ground, roads in Thailand maybe accommodating everything and anything.   

 

[puck2]

How to solve this problem?

 

Only not drunken falangs should be allowed to drive a  car or ride on a motorbike ????

[connda]

Nothing changes.  You can't police moving violation at a road block, and it's the moving violations which are consistance and dangerous, but considering there is no such thing as a highway patrol who stops and cites drivers for moving violations - nothing changes.  Oh, yeah.  I know.  They have cars with Highway Patrol written on them but they are pretty much strictly VIP escort.  They aren't used for policing.
Then driver education - who is going to teach Thais to drive.  They are already taught the wrong way to drive and if you have ever looked at the video you are required to watch to get your license - well, it's a joke at best. 
Thai have no idea how to do the most basic of driving skills like, merging into traffic, yielding and stopping at marked intersection, or basically given a s**t. 

Sorry, but the idiocy is self-perpetuating.  Thais don't have the  typical driver education you get in the West, and even if they did, they ignore the rules. 
What makes it worse is the lack of uniform police enforcement.  Some moron could hit your car head on coming the wrong way down the street or running a stop sign at an intersection, and yet the police and insurance companies will want you to pay because Somchai broke the law and got himself/herself injured - but you get the blame and expense - and who fixes your vehicle?  You do. 

Nothing will ever change.  Thais love being Number 1, so they can keep that Number 1 in world traffic fatalities year-over-year and claim bragging rights.
This is a social problem, and Thai society doesn't have the will to change how they drive.  Hell, even the cops don't know how to drive.  It will never change.  Ever.

[spidermike007]

On 5/13/2023 at 6:29 AM, mania said:

It is true they are a blight but they do not refuse to patrol hwy they are not allowed to. (Thanks Gawd as it would be a nice earner for them personally)

They are allowed road block type checks only. The only penalties done on hwy are thru traffic cams

I am not worried about the highway patrol actually patrolling the highways. I don't misbehave, nor am I an ignorant and reckless driver. Would love to see some of the absolute fools pulled over for the stupidity they exhibit daily, the trucks going 40kph, hogging the fast lanes, etc. 

 

It would be a step forward. 

[tgw]

I feel the poll misses the point.

 

Western police forces often concentrate on speed limit enforcement, but that's lazy and ineffective and won't solve Thailand's road safety problems.

 

Number one problem on Thai roads is recklessness, poor decisions made by drivers.

 

Thai police needs to enforce a "broken windows" policy regarding rules of circulation.

 

Crackdown mercilessly on:

- driving on the wrong side of the street

- running red lights

- right of way, including pedestrian's

- reckless driving not including speeding

- driving without a permit

- compulsory class 1 insurance for all motorized vehicles

- double parking

- no "loose" passengers in the back of a pickup on main roads and highways

- failing to indicate a turn

- crossing more than 1 lane to make a turn

- crossing continuous lines on main roads

- illegal overtaking

- safety distances

 

I don't include speeding, because including that would just have the effect of lazy policing, i.e. speed checks on highways, where the risk of accident is the lowest.

General traffic safety would be best served if they concentrated on all of the above, in effect teaching people to behave on the roads, instead of occasionally lynching someone when something goes wrong.

 

Driving without a permit should be considered a very serious offence, for which a hefty fine as well as confiscation of the vehicle is possible.

 

It does not matter if people can pay their way out of the problem.
Just make the payment a serious inconvenience so that they will at least try to not let it happen again.

 

They should introduce a program where citizens can send in dashcam videos if they catch particularly bad cases of some of the offences above.

Give the uploaders 500 baht for a successful report of an actual serious offence.

 

Some serious offences should be sanctioned with cancellation of driving permits, mandatory re-training and testing to obtain a new one.

 

[NanLaew]

22 hours ago, Will B Good said:

More chance of the Tories being returned with a majority.........but I would stick speed limiters on all cars.......the difference in speed, particularly on motorways, is a killer.

 

That'll have the petrol heads frothing at the mouth.

Since upwards of 86% of Thai road traffic accidents, injuries and/or deaths happen to those on 2-wheels, where do I sign up to froth with the petrolheads?

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Quote

What can be done to make Thai Roads safer?

A top to bottom fundamental change within Thai society and culture, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

No, no, no. You are spraying your hose at the fire without turning off the gas first.

 

Root cause. No law enforcement.

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

No, no, no. You are spraying your hose at the fire without turning off the gas first.

 

Root cause. No law enforcement.

There'll be no law enforcement until Thai society wants it.

[quake]

2 hours ago, tgw said:

I feel the poll misses the point.

 

Western police forces often concentrate on speed limit enforcement, but that's lazy and ineffective and won't solve Thailand's road safety problems.

 

Number one problem on Thai roads is recklessness, poor decisions made by drivers.

 

Thai police needs to enforce a "broken windows" policy regarding rules of circulation.

 

Crackdown mercilessly on:

- driving on the wrong side of the street

- running red lights

- right of way, including pedestrian's

- reckless driving not including speeding

- driving without a permit

- compulsory class 1 insurance for all motorized vehicles

- double parking

- no "loose" passengers in the back of a pickup on main roads and highways

- failing to indicate a turn

- crossing more than 1 lane to make a turn

- crossing continuous lines on main roads

- illegal overtaking

- safety distances

 

I don't include speeding, because including that would just have the effect of lazy policing, i.e. speed checks on highways, where the risk of accident is the lowest.

General traffic safety would be best served if they concentrated on all of the above, in effect teaching people to behave on the roads, instead of occasionally lynching someone when something goes wrong.

 

Driving without a permit should be considered a very serious offence, for which a hefty fine as well as confiscation of the vehicle is possible.

 

It does not matter if people can pay their way out of the problem.
Just make the payment a serious inconvenience so that they will at least try to not let it happen again.

 

They should introduce a program where citizens can send in dashcam videos if they catch particularly bad cases of some of the offences above.

Give the uploaders 500 baht for a successful report of an actual serious offence.

 

Some serious offences should be sanctioned with cancellation of driving permits, mandatory re-training and testing to obtain a new one.

 

Com on, there's no need for that level of humor on a Sunday morning. 

 

BTW You forgot,  No toking on a bong whilst driving. 

 

 

 

 

[quake]

Just now, BangkokReady said:

There'll be no law enforcement until Thai society wants it.

+ 1 

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

And it's the people not caring that causes the law not to care...

Once they start fining the miscreants and taking considerable chunks of money out of their pockets, seizing vehicles, suspending driving licenses and then fining and jailing those who persist, they'll start caring. You can see that the police are already being bypassed when it comes to speeding on the monitored highways with a 'ticket in the post' rather than the option of filling a lazy cop's pocket. Once the concerted effort is made to link up all the relevant systems, eventually people will find that they can't pay their road tax, get their vehicle inspected or get insurance and the more illegal they try to be, the heavier the punishment will be.

 

It's a work in progress for sure but for now, it's still primarily down to the cops doing their job.

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

No, no, no. You are spraying your hose at the fire without turning off the gas first.

 

Root cause. No law enforcement.

There'll be no law enforcement until Thai society wants it.

They've never had the option to abide by the laws so don't know what they're missing (and the money they'd be saving).

 

As for government's facilitating societal change, a lot will depend on how much they need to integrate in the wider world. External pressures can come to bear. I understand that the car insurance industry in Thailand grew from a need to comply with foreign investment in the nascent but now burgeoning Thai motor assembly industry. Before that, blame and compensation was a lottery dictated and controlled 100% by the police.

 

It will come. Maybe my grandchildren will witness it. Right now, I'm happy with the progress, albeit glacial, made over the past +30 years that I've been allowed to squat here.

[BangkokReady]

35 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Once they start fining the miscreants and taking considerable chunks of money out of their pockets, seizing vehicles, suspending driving licenses and then fining and jailing those who persist, they'll start caring.

24 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

They've never had the option to abide by the laws so don't know what they're missing (and the money they'd be saving).

I think you're misunderstanding me.

 

Thai people generally don't want the police to properly enforce the law.  That is my point.  They enjoy not really having to follow the laws themselves and, particularly when it comes to road laws, they don't really want the police to do much.

 

If "Western style" law enforcement magically appeared in Thailand overnight, the general public would be horrified, even though it would, eventually, greatly reduce deaths and injuries on the roads and make them function a lot smoother.

 

If laws were suddenly properly enforced on the roads in Thailand, millions of Thais would suddenly find themselves unable to use a motor vehicle for at least a year as they are immediately arrested and charged for a variety of traffic offences, probably on the first day.  This would lead to a lot of job losses and the economy would likely suffer drastically.

 

Thailand has a culture of a wai, a fruit basket and a payment to the family of the victim solving most legal issues.  When the police get tough on anything road related, people often respond that they are being too harsh.  When a police officer catches four children riding on one motorbike without helmets and makes them do a few jumping jacks and sends them on their way, back on the bike, he is applauded.

 

There needs to be a cultural shift before proper law enforcement can begin.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I think you're misunderstanding me.

 

Thai people generally don't want the police to properly enforce the law.  That is my point.  They enjoy not really having to follow the laws themselves and, particularly when it comes to road laws, they don't really want the police to do much.

 

If "Western style" law enforcement magically appeared in Thailand overnight, the general public would be horrified, even though it would, eventually, greatly reduce deaths and injuries on the roads and make them function a lot smoother.

 

If laws were suddenly properly enforced on the roads in Thailand, millions of Thais would suddenly find themselves unable to use a motor vehicle for at least a year as they are immediately arrested and charged for a variety of traffic offences, probably on the first day.  This would lead to a lot of job losses and the economy would likely suffer drastically.

 

Thailand has a culture of a wai, a fruit basket and a payment to the family of the victim solving most legal issues.  When the police get tough on anything road related, people often respond that they are being too harsh.  When a police officer catches four children riding on one motorbike without helmets and makes them do a few jumping jacks and sends them on their way, back on the bike, he is applauded.

 

There needs to be a cultural shift before proper law enforcement can begin.

Nobody's suggesting any 'overnight' timeline or things being done 'suddenly'. I did say glacial and not nuclear.

 

I don't misunderstand you as you make valid observations but I don't pretend to know what Thai people generally want. I agree that the path of least resistance is preferred here regardless of the accumulated costs. For example, it only takes one 'fine' and a bike seizure for not having a bike license to surpass the time and expense of actually getting a bike license. That's just laziness that's enhanced by dodgy law enforcement. One of my wife's relatives probably burns more petrol driving circuitous routes to avoid checkpoints than the other one who did get a license and doesn't need to faff about. However, the former probably thinks he's still smarter than the latter.

 

I just disagree on what ox should precede which cart. The culture won't change easily but you can change things that can chip away at the old fashioned cultural mores.

[BarraMarra]

Ban Thais off them.

[torturedsole]

Until the driving test is the equal of the UK test (and others) then no point. 

 

Once that's sorted, then concentrate on law enforcement. 

[Will B Good]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:24 AM, NanLaew said:

Since upwards of 86% of Thai road traffic accidents, injuries and/or deaths happen to those on 2-wheels, where do I sign up to froth with the petrolheads?

Who on earth do you think is hitting them?

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

On 5/14/2023 at 10:24 AM, NanLaew said:

Since upwards of 86% of Thai road traffic accidents, injuries and/or deaths happen to those on 2-wheels, where do I sign up to froth with the petrolheads?

Who on earth do you think is hitting them?

There's a few instances of bikes being planted in the back of trucks or stuck under a minivan bumper. However, the vast majority of them happen on rural roads and involve them hitting other bikes and inanimate objects like power poles and walls. My brother-in-law nearly drowned driving home drunk as a skunk at 2 am when he ran himself off the road and ended up trapped under his bent crotch rocket in a rice paddy.