Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 I’ve just had a reminder of Brexit failure this morning. I went shopping at Tesco, only to find a drastically reduced stock range and some of the items I want not available. I need now to go to an alternative supermarket to hopefully complete my shopping. A reminder millions of shoppers (sometimes known as voters) get to experience every week. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, Will B Good said: I take it you do see the connection between no minimum wage and preferring workers from Vietnam......or is that the point you are making? Modern slavery in the European Union Migrants are the most likely to fall victim to slavery, as they are used for cheap and easily exploitable labour. This situation is only reinforced by the creation and perpetuation of migration routes to Europe. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-001305_EN.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, vinny41 said: Modern slavery in the European Union Migrants are the most likely to fall victim to slavery, as they are used for cheap and easily exploitable labour. This situation is only reinforced by the creation and perpetuation of migration routes to Europe. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-001305_EN.html More whataboutary, the subject is not modern slavery. But please do request a thread on the subject. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: Looks like you are trying to avoid points of discussion you can’t deal with. Not at all. Fire away. As I pointed out, it was not me that suggested all jobs were in rural areas. That was someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: I’ve just had a reminder of Brexit failure this morning. I went shopping at Tesco, only to find a drastically reduced stock range and some of the items I want not available. I need now to go to an alternative supermarket to hopefully complete my shopping. A reminder millions of shoppers (sometimes known as voters) get to experience every week. Please do tell what it was you could not source. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 hours ago, James105 said: I have no idea, I'm not a Farage expert but he clearly believed that the UK would be better off outside of the EU. Let's not pretend that his thinking was to leave the EU and then try and stay as closely aligned as possible whilst keeping all the regulations that were part of being in the EU as then the better option would of course be to just stay in the EU. All the UK has done is tinkered around the edges trying to please everyone which of course means pleasing nobody and the inevitable failure that follows. There was an opportunity presented to radically rethink how the UK does business and it was an opportunity squandered by people who had their noses too deeply entrenched in the EU trough or just plain old incompetency. Cameron was right to resign as he didn't believe in it and unfortunately neither were the opportunists that followed, no matter what they said in public. As you mention, a middle of the road policy can only fail. There are only two viable options. One is to join the single market, and do like Norway or Switzerland. It won't provide more benefits than being inside the EU, but would at least avoid the current failure. The other viable option is an ultra-liberal and ultra-globalist disruptive policy as advocated by some economists. Lower taxes, lower custom tariffs, lower worker protections, lower social subsidies, etc... in order to stimulate business and attract investment. Thatcher policy on a larger scale, combined with extensive globalisation. It can be very successful from an economic point of view. But then there is the social consequences attached to it. And we can all guess how they would be. Is UK ready to pay that social price? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 57 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: I’ve just checked the three supermarkets in the town I’m in, Tesco, Morison, Aldi. None have vacancies. The nearest hospital is 27 miles away, there is no public transport between here and walking distance of the hospital that would get anyone to work or home for night and evening shifts. The nearest Amazon warehouse is 55 miles away. There are however hundreds of seasonal jobs in farming, but employment among the young fit people in this area who can do these jobs is near 100%, perhaps you could commute. Predictable response. Funny but predictable. Of course, we don't accept personal experiences on here, do we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: Predictable response. Funny but predictable. Of course, we don't accept personal experiences on here, do we? Enjoy: https://www.nationalworld.com/money/food-shortages-hit-uk-supermarkets-again-as-fears-grow-toilet-paper-shortages-could-follow-in-may-heres-why-4117113 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: Please do tell what it was you could not source. They have had some bad weather in Spain and Morocco recently and they haven't been able to deliver fresh produce to U.K supermarkets because of the bad weather , so there's been a shortage of fruit and vegetables from those Countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: They have had some bad weather in Spain and Morocco recently and they haven't been able to deliver fresh produce to U.K supermarkets because of the bad weather , so there's been a shortage of fruit and vegetables from those Countries Not quite the whole story. Why bother delivering to the UK when there are trade barriers in the way? If a product is in short supply, feed it to the easy access market and disregard the market that has trade barriers. Edited May 23, 2023 by Chomper Higgot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff the Chef Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said: Look no further than the expat with a pound to judge failure Boris, Gove, Farage etc should all be swinging off tower bridge for treason in my view and sure you will all agree ???? I'm sure there could be a lot more then those 3, I'm sure Tower Bridge has a weight restriction of 18tons, average amount of people in a ton is 12 to 15, so the whole of the Conservative Party MP's would possible bring it down. Might be a better idea to use the Tower of London walls to crucify the lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Enjoy: https://www.nationalworld.com/money/food-shortages-hit-uk-supermarkets-again-as-fears-grow-toilet-paper-shortages-could-follow-in-may-heres-why-4117113 Very enjoyable read, thanks. Especially the part about extreme weather, high energy prices and the Ukraine war playing a part. Funny that your previous post said "I’ve just had a reminder of Brexit failure this morning." Let me help you. Here is what you should have written "I’ve just had a reminder of Brexit failure seen witnessed some supply issues at supermarkets due to the effects of many factors, this morning." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 hours ago, JayClay said: I'd suggest that you have probably only recently taken that stance because you think that it works to back up your current argument. It is, of course, a poorly thought out stance. Inflation is already in overdrive and, in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis,you want to push the costs of locally produced fruit and veg up even higher. Of course that will mean local produce is no longer able to compete price-wise with imported goods so the businesses just fold because they have nobody to sell to. Unless your newly-found concerns for the poor fruit pickers includes the government paying some pretty impressive subsidies, it's unworkable. Don't we have trade barriers in the way to stop produce coming from Europe ? You cannot have it both ways . The U.K either has to compete with E.U sourced produce OR there's trade barriers stopping that produce from entering the U.K It cannot be both 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: Very enjoyable read, thanks. Especially the part about extreme weather, high energy prices and the Ukraine war playing a part. Funny that your previous post said "I’ve just had a reminder of Brexit failure this morning." Let me help you. Here is what you should have written "I’ve just had a reminder of Brexit failure seen witnessed some supply issues at supermarkets due to the effects of many factors, this morning." Yes, so once again for your sake. A food supplier in Europe has a reduced stock of product. Does he ship it to customers within the zero tariff free trade area of the EU, or does he ship it through expensive and time consuming trade barriers to the UK? Edited May 23, 2023 by Chomper Higgot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Not quite the whole story. Why bother delivering to the UK when there are trade barriers in the way? If a product is in short supply, feed it to the easy access market and disregard the market that has trade barriers. 2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Yes, so once again for your sake. A food supplier in Europe has a reduced stock of product. Does he ship it to customers within the zero tariff free trade area of the EU, or does he ship it through expensive and time consuming trade barriers to the UK? Trade barriers between UK and Morocco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayClay Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Don't we have trade barriers in the way to stop produce coming from Europe ? You cannot have it both ways . The U.K either has to compete with E.U sourced produce OR there's trade barriers stopping that produce from entering the U.K It cannot be both Yes we do. Yes I can. And yes it can. Even *with* increased tarifs and red tape when importing goods, they will still be cheaper than they would if you increased the salaries of everybody involved in the UK production process. And it will still be more expensive than if you hadn't imposed those trade barriers. It's what is called a "lose-lose situation" and brexit has imposed many examples of such. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 22 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: They have had some bad weather in Spain and Morocco recently and they haven't been able to deliver fresh produce to U.K supermarkets because of the bad weather , so there's been a shortage of fruit and vegetables from those Countries I understand that situation. However, I would like to know what Chomper could not source. I went to our local frech market 2 days ago and also popped into Lidl. I got everything I needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, JayClay said: Yes we do. Yes I can. And yes it can. Even *with* increased tarifs and red tape when importing goods, they will still be cheaper than they would if you increased the salaries of everybody involved in the UK production process. And it will still be more expensive than if you hadn't imposed those trade barriers. It's what is called a "lose-lose situation" and brexit has imposed many examples of such. Even with the weak Pound which makes imports more expensive ? I have a feeling that you are just blaming everything on Brexit , like the bad weather in Morocco is because of Brexit . Bad weather in Morocco has caused food shortages in the U.K and that was caused by Brexit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: Trade barriers between UK and Morocco? Morocco has a trade agree with the EU facilitating trade between Morocco and the EU. Which is the nearer, easier and faster trade partner for Morocco, the EU or the UK? https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-morocco-association-agreement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayClay Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, Mac Mickmanus said: Even with the weak Pound which makes imports more expensive ? Yes. I don't know why you can't comprehend it... It's happening right now. You're following the typical folly of "If we do A, it will be reduce B therefore it must increase C". It shows a basic lack of critical thinking which explains why you were presumably willing to believe the lies spread by the leave campaign. If you want to stop yourself being conned for the rest of your life you need to learn to understand that it's perfectly possible to create a policy that will make everything worse. As for your ramblings about the weather in Morocco, I have no idea what you're talking about and I have no interest in trying to debate with somebody who is clearly desperately trying to deflect the argument in order to try and save face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Even with the weak Pound which makes imports more expensive ? I have a feeling that you are just blaming everything on Brexit , like the bad weather in Morocco is because of Brexit . Bad weather in Morocco has caused food shortages in the U.K and that was caused by Brexit ? Bad weather in Morocco causes shortages in the ‘food market’, therefore suppliers focus on their nearest and lowest cost customers. The UK’s post Brexit trade barriers make supplying the UK the least best option for EU suppliers v supplying within the EU. UK suppliers would like to supply the shortfall, but they don’t have the workers to do so. Oops! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, JayClay said: Yes. I don't know why you can't comprehend it... It's happening right now. You're following the typical folly of "If we do A, it will be reduce B therefore it must increase C". It shows a basic lack of critical thinking which explains why you were presumably willing to believe the lies spread by the leave campaign. If you want to stop yourself being conned for the rest of your life you need to learn to understand that it's perfectly possible to create a policy that will make everything worse. As for your ramblings about the weather in Morocco, I have no idea what you're talking about and I have no interest in trying to debate with somebody who is clearly desperately trying to deflect the argument in order to try and save face. O.K ,just one question . Is a weak Pound better or worse for U.K imports ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2023 Brexiteers don’t understand how Brexit created trade barriers impact the UK economy. Why am I not surprised?! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: I understand that situation. However, I would like to know what Chomper could not source. I went to our local frech market 2 days ago and also popped into Lidl. I got everything I needed. Lucky you. I couldn’t get everything I wanted in Tesco, I’m now on my way to Aldi. I have provided a link reporting shortages in supermarkets. If you are arguing there are no shortages, then say so. Edited May 23, 2023 by Chomper Higgot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) Double post Edited May 23, 2023 by candide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: Lucky you. I couldn’t get everything I wanted in Tesco, I’m now on my way to Aldi. I have provided a link reporting shortages in dumper markets. If you are arguing there are no shortages, then say so. Please let us know what it was you could not source. I believe, unlike some others, that personal experiences are useful. Keeps the scaremongery in the media in check. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Even the Guardian isn't trying to blame Brexit for UK food shortages . Record heat in southern Europe and chilly start to British growing season spell more misery for shoppers Shoppers have been warned they face more fruit and vegetable shortages, as temperatures in southern Spain soar to unprecedented levels while the UK growing season gets off to a late start because of cold, overcast weather. Temperatures were expected to reach a new April record of 39C (102F) in parts of Andalucía on Friday amid a long-lasting drought that has affected the production of vegetables in Spain. Córdoba reached a record 38.8C on Thursday. Spain has been in drought since January last year and this is likely to be the hottest, driest April on record. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/28/fruit-veg-shortages-weather-uk-spain-crops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayClay Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 33 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: O.K ,just one question . Is a weak Pound better or worse for U.K imports ? A weak pound is better for imports. You shouldn't have needed me to tell you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff the Chef Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 One of the biggest problems is a lack of HGV drivers in the UK, currently running at about 70k, Brexit saw 12.5 EU drivers leave UK employers mainly because of waiting times at UK borders. Most of the EU traffic is paid by mileage, so if the wheels aren't turning they don't get paid. 40years in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, JayClay said: A weak pound is better for imports. You shouldn't have needed me to tell you that. I did actually know that , I was highlighting one of the positives to emerge from Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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