Pheu Thai’s dilemma(s)

[webfact]

 

Hours after Move Forward’s shocking election victory, Voice TV presenter Nattakorn Devakula said something that is politically sensible but democratically questionable. Pheu Thai, he suggested, should go ahead and be a rival government-forming core.

 

Controversial as that sounds, he was speaking about a true dilemma preoccupying what had been Thailand’s biggest political party until May 14 this year. Since Thaksin Shinawatra formed the Thai Rak Thai Party in 1998, the political camp won every election, albeit under different names. Well, every election except the last one.

 

Since it was formed, whenever it led a coalition government, the political camp had picked the finance minister without fail. If it joined the Move Forward coalition now, it would be the first time that naming the finance minister is out of its hands.

 

Nattakorn looked as stunned as everybody else. He considered Pheu Thai to be progressive, but admitted that Move Forward was being seen as more progressive. One key detail, though, needs to be discussed more thoroughly. It’s the question whether being associated with Thaksin Shinawatra threw the “progressive” image of Pheu Thai into question.

 

by By Tulsathit Taptim

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/pheu-thais-dilemmas/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2023-05-25

 

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[Callmeishmael]

Quite frankly, I've never thought at Pheu Thai were really that progressive.  They have supported some progressive policies, but they did so more from a populist point of view rather than being truly progressive.

 

I think that PT really wants to get into bed with Anutin, Prawit and Prayut and form their own coalition government.  There are 2 things holding them back:

1 -They may lose a LOT of future votes if they stab MF in the back.

2 -They still won't have enough votes to make a Senate-proof majority.

[Will B Good]

Whatever the outcome it won't be a decision based on principles......it will be based on what's the best possible outcome for 'us' .

Edited May 25, 2023 by Will B Good

[mfd101]

5 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Whatever the outcome it won't be a decision based on principles......it will be based what what's the best possible outcome for 'us' .

Yes, which is to say that - at least till Future Forward/Move Forward came along - Thai politics has long been and still largely remains non-ideological. It's all about that basic Thai cultural concept: Status (= power + money + appearances).

 

Are things at last changing to what to a Westerner seems like 'normal' politics (Left vs Middle vs Right, however defined)? We shall see ...

[MrMojoRisin]

28 minutes ago, Callmeishmael said:

Quite frankly, I've never thought at Pheu Thai were really that progressive.  They have supported some progressive policies, but they did so more from a populist point of view rather than being truly progressive.

 

I think that PT really wants to get into bed with Anutin, Prawit and Prayut and form their own coalition government.  There are 2 things holding them back:

1 -They may lose a LOT of future votes if they stab MF in the back.

2 -They still won't have enough votes to make a Senate-proof majority.

It’s all relative.

When considering progressive credentials: 

Pheu Thai > Junta / Democrats

Move Forward > Pheu Thai

[zzaa09]

46 minutes ago, Callmeishmael said:

Quite frankly, I've never thought at Pheu Thai were really that progressive.  They have supported some progressive policies, but they did so more from a populist point of view rather than being truly progressive.

 

I think that PT really wants to get into bed with Anutin, Prawit and Prayut and form their own coalition government.  There are 2 things holding them back:

1 -They may lose a LOT of future votes if they stab MF in the back.

2 -They still won't have enough votes to make a Senate-proof majority.

PT, and it's predecessor parties, at it's core has always been more establishment driven then not......and like everyone, self-interest come first before the commons. 

 

Surely, wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to hook up with the Junta Gang. 

Truer colours.

Survival mechanism. 

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

One key detail, though, needs to be discussed more thoroughly. It’s the question whether being associated with Thaksin Shinawatra threw the “progressive” image of Pheu Thai into question.

Absolutely, how can they say they are being progressive when all the talk about is Thaksin, that's history.

He should have stayed out of it this time around, I actually don't think he did them any favours this time around.

[MrMojoRisin]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

PT, and it's predecessor parties, at it's core has always been more establishment driven then not......and like everyone, self-interest come first before the commons. 

 

Surely, wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to hook up with the Junta Gang. 

Truer colours.

Survival mechanism. 

Uninformed prejudiced speculation is of zero value.

Edited May 25, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[kingstonkid]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Whatever the outcome it won't be a decision based on principles......it will be based on what's the best possible outcome for 'us' .

Not us. Thaksin 

 

Thaksin and the pt were seen as the anti establishment party and the party of the people.

Thaksin is the leader of all these different parties because he had the money.

 

Pt made 2 major mistakes.

 

First was all the talk of him coming back.  There's still a lot of people that do not want that and see him as part of the old style corrupt political system.

 

Second was floating and saying they were willing to work with pprp and anutin to form the government if needed.

 

Both these showed that PT was just a military old boy party. Not for change but to keep the PT status quo that has always ended in coup.

Edited May 25, 2023 by kingstonkid

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Not us. Thaksin 

Agree..........what the enclosed quotation marks were intended to convey.....555

[newbee2022]

4 hours ago, Will B Good said:

will be based on what's the best possible outcome for 'us' .

as everywhere in our so called democratic govts.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

as everywhere in our so called democratic govts.

True

[h90]

4 hours ago, Callmeishmael said:

Quite frankly, I've never thought at Pheu Thai were really that progressive.  They have supported some progressive policies, but they did so more from a populist point of view rather than being truly progressive.

 

I think that PT really wants to get into bed with Anutin, Prawit and Prayut and form their own coalition government.  There are 2 things holding them back:

1 -They may lose a LOT of future votes if they stab MF in the back.

2 -They still won't have enough votes to make a Senate-proof majority.

If 4 more years and Thaksins populist acting and no one can remember MF anymore...

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

First was all the talk of him coming back.  There's still a lot of people that do not want that and see him as part of the old style corrupt political system.

 

His talk about coming back was to fire up his base for the election. He has done that numerous times in the past to connect to his base. Don't think it's the reason for PTP not doing. The party still got a lot of votes and seats. They miscalculated the popularity of MFP and the shift in demography. The younger voters have very little affliation for Thaksin. Different time period. 

 

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

Second was floating and saying they were willing to work with pprp and anutin to form the government if needed.

That was purely speculation. Thaksin has never said he will work with PPRP and BJT. PTP leaders like Sreetha and Paetongtarn have made that clear several times that they will not work with junta allies. Personally I don't see that possibility when it was the military that got him and his sister exiled and separate from his family. He will also not forgive Newin for betraying him. 

 

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

Both these showed that PT was just a military old boy party. Not for change but to keep the PT status quo that has always ended in coup.

That is quick a stretch to said that Thaksin has soft spot for the military. In fact it was the changes that benefitted the people that worried the elites & military and ended in coups. In the same way that the MFP election success and manifesto for change worried the elites & military. 

[BangkokReady]

6 hours ago, Callmeishmael said:

Quite frankly, I've never thought at Pheu Thai were really that progressive.  They have supported some progressive policies, but they did so more from a populist point of view rather than being truly progressive.

 

I think that PT really wants to get into bed with Anutin, Prawit and Prayut and form their own coalition government.  There are 2 things holding them back:

1 -They may lose a LOT of future votes if they stab MF in the back.

2 -They still won't have enough votes to make a Senate-proof majority.

There's nothing "progressive" about PT.  They're just seen as "the people's party" by some because of their populist policies that do something for the poor.

 

In reality PT has always been a mechanism for Thaksin to gain power so that he can enrich himself.  The pleasing of the poorer people of Thailand was simply to gain and hold on to power.

 

Simply paying the poor to vote for you doesn't make you progressive.  It is defined as: "Progressive ideas or systems are new and modern, encouraging change in society or in the way that things are done".

[TigerandDog]

Pheu Thai not winning the majority had nothing to do with Thaksin or his daughter. Where I am is usually hard core red, BUT those hard core members turned on Pheu Thai for 1 reason only, viz. the fact they nominated 3 candidates for PM. To them it indicated friction and instability between the factions within PT, so they voted MFP instead.

[kennw]

7 hours ago, Callmeishmael said:

Quite frankly, I've never thought at Pheu Thai were really that progressive.  They have supported some progressive policies, but they did so more from a populist point of view rather than being truly progressive.

 

I think that PT really wants to get into bed with Anutin, Prawit and Prayut and form their own coalition government.  There are 2 things holding them back:

1 -They may lose a LOT of future votes if they stab MF in the back.

2 -They still won't have enough votes to make a Senate-proof majority.

Agreed.

[zzaa09]

3 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

as everywhere in our so called democratic govts.

Which really don't exist in a truer form anywhere...

More akin to oligarchical/corporatism schemes. 

[Flory]

Pheu Thai used to be the most progressive thing in Thai politics by a mile, even though its platform still included nationalism, monarchism, and big business. 

MF is unlike anything in recent Thai history and would not have been possible without the mounting dissatisfaction with 2014, Pheu Thai's mis-steps that led to it and subsequent inability to do anything about it, and a changing of the guard at the top.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Flory

[bannork]

Pheu Thai want to give the man a fish ( the one time payment of 10,000 baht to every adult Thai ).

Move Forward want to teach the man how to fish.

A fundamental difference.

Another sign of the conservative and questionable nature of PT is shown in one of their choices for House Speaker, namely Suchart Tangcharern. This man has changed parties several times and faced allegations of corruption as far back as 1996. 

 

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1996/05/08/Thai-government-faces-corruption-charges/1202831528000/