23 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You say MAGA as if it is something negative. What is wrong with making america great?

Trump is going to be a runaway winner, unless they can replace sleepy, no decent american is going to vote for a guy who can't remember his opposition's name, or confuses his granddaughter with his dead son, etc.. 

It's all about timing. The last time America was great was in in 1945. The right wing want to go back to that time, hence the "again" in MAGA.

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

As a teenager I did all those jobs. You'd be hardpressed to find a white kid doing dairy work, picking crops these days. Americans have gotten soft and lazy, part of the problem is the gov handing out to many freebees.

Bah humbug....those pesky kids........don't know how good they have it........back in my day........etc, etc, etc

 

 

Bickering posts have been removed.

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

As a teenager I did all those jobs. You'd be hardpressed to find a white kid doing dairy work, picking crops these days. Americans have gotten soft and lazy, part of the problem is the gov handing out to many freebees.

I've also done field labor and other dirty jobs.  Young people today who want to work can find easier jobs with better work conditions, better pay and closer to home--most young people no longer live in rural areas.  Is it wrong for these young people to pass on farm labor and take better jobs?

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Not a big agricultural nation?  Please...

 

About wages- labor accounts for about 30% of the cost of fruit/nuts, 20% for vegetables, and 10% for grains etc.

So even paying legal residents double the current wage would not drive food prices "through the roof".  Plus it would encourage automation and efficient production.  

 

 

 

https://data.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/en/crop-workers/

Your source says labor accounts for 27.7% of the cost for fruit farms and 23.1% of the cost for vegetables.  That is a significant amount. 

 

It also states that the amount of land used to grow fruits and vegetables is decreasing while imports are increasing, that 57% of farm laborers are immigrants with 31% being undocumented immigrants, and that it is becoming increasingly difficult to find people willing to do this kind of work.  Getting rid of the immigrants and trying to attract US citizens into these jobs will require much higher pay and better working conditions, greatly increasing costs and accelerating the decline in US agricultural. 

 

People have been trying for years to develop machines that can recognized and pick ripe fruits and vegetables without damaging them without success.

 

Currently the labor market in the US is extremely tight, contributing to high inflation.  Getting rid of immigrants will further raise labor costs and inflation, while also increasing food imports and increasing the trade deficit. 

 

There is no getting around the fact that these immigrants are very good for the US economy.  That is why the politically popular immigrant bashing never results in meaningful action against those that hire them.

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Bah humbug....those pesky kids........don't know how good they have it........back in my day........etc, etc, etc

 

 

Do sharecroppers still get 50% ?

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

It's all about timing. The last time America was great was in in 1945. The right wing want to go back to that time, hence the "again" in MAGA.

Oddly, the leaders of MAGA, don’t want to go back to the days of progressive taxation, more equal distribution of wealth and workers receiving good pay and workplace pensions, rather than directors and shareholders taking the lion’s share.

 

The days and means by which the wealth of the working and middle-class were built.

 

They distract MAGA supporters with hatred and grievance politics while stuffing the pockets of the hyper wealthy with tax breaks paid for at the cost of the national debt.

 

And the best bit, the  very people conned by MAGA make donations to Trump (the billionaire).

 

 

It’s a remarkable trick.

 

So I wonder, what would be the impact of kids growing up in America with no citizenship and no path to citizenship?

 

A new underclass, people with no access to rights or protections under law.

 

Perhaps that’s what’s behind this unconstitutional (dangerous) nonsense. 
 

Give those who hate, someone else to hate, and remove all the rights of the the hated.

 

We can't repeal the 2nd amendment or the first amendment because they are in the constitution. The 14th amendment, not so much. Party of hypocrites.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So I wonder, what would be the impact of kids growing up in America with no citizenship and no path to citizenship?

 

A new underclass, people with no access to rights or protections under law.

 

Perhaps that’s what’s behind this unconstitutional (dangerous) nonsense. 
 

Give those who hate, someone else to hate, and remove all the rights of the the hated.

 

Perhaps they shouldnt be growing up in America in the first place? Perhaps their parents (illegal immigrants) should be sent back to where they came from, along with their children. 

 

Different story for legal migrants of course. 

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Perhaps they shouldnt be growing up in America in the first place? Perhaps their parents (illegal immigrants) should be sent back to where they came from, along with their children. 

 

Different story for legal migrants of course. 

If they are born in America they Americans and have the right to grow up in America.

 

Refer, The Constitution of the United  States.

 

Or perhaps you want to toss that out too?!

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If they are born in America they Americans and have the right to grow up in America.

 

Refer, The Constitution of the United  States.

 

Or perhaps you want to toss that out too?!

It is the fault of the broken immigration system that people are allowed to stay in the States for so long that they can become pregnant and give birth.  In those cases, the kids are indeed citizens.  But the parents aren't. So when the parents are deported they can choose to take their US citizen children with them, or leave them behind. If left behind they can be placed with relatives (if available) or into a good adoption. 

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It is the fault of the broken immigration system that people are allowed to stay in the States for so long that they can become pregnant and give birth.  In those cases, the kids are indeed citizens.  But the parents aren't. So when the parents are deported they can choose to take their US citizen children with them, or leave them behind. If left behind they can be placed with relatives (if available) or into a good adoption. 

Just so long as there’s some authoritarian cruelty involved eh!

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Just so long as there’s some authoritarian cruelty involved eh!

 

 

 

 

The cruelty is parents who would risk their children in such a way. Even so, they would be welcome to keep their families intact as they return to their points of origin. If they CHOOSE to leave their kids behind, who's fault is that?

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The cruelty is parents who would risk their children in such a way. Even so, they would be welcome to keep their families intact as they return to their points of origin. If they CHOOSE to leave their kids behind, who's fault is that?

A good number of the "parents" would be single women who were raped along the way. You'd deny citizenship for that child?

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A good number of the "parents" would be single women who were raped along the way. You'd deny citizenship for that child?

Of course not. As I said, born in the US equals citizenship. Same applies, if the mother wants to keep her child when she is deported, that is fine. Otherwise, relatives or adoption. 

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Of course not. As I said, born in the US equals citizenship. Same applies, if the mother wants to keep her child when she is deported, that is fine. Otherwise, relatives or adoption. 

Then you're at odds with Trump who wants to refuse such children citizenship. As you implied they have that right under the US constitution.

Troll post removed 

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Then you're at odds with Trump who wants to refuse such children citizenship. As you implied they have that right under the US constitution.

Of course I am at odds with Trump. He is wrong on this issue.  It isn't complicated. 

20 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Of course not. As I said, born in the US equals citizenship. Same applies, if the mother wants to keep her child when she is deported, that is fine. Otherwise, relatives or adoption. 

Again, the essential cruelty ingredient.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The cruelty is parents who would risk their children in such a way. Even so, they would be welcome to keep their families intact as they return to their points of origin. If they CHOOSE to leave their kids behind, who's fault is that?

They don’t need to ‘risk their children’.

 

The Constitution defines their Children born in the United States as Americans.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Again, the essential cruelty ingredient.

 

 

Where is the cruelty? These are good options.   Of course, depending on the state, terminating the pregnancy is also a possibility.

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

We can't repeal the 2nd amendment or the first amendment because they are in the constitution. The 14th amendment, not so much. Party of hypocrites.

We????

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Where is the cruelty? These are good options.   Of course, depending on the state, terminating the pregnancy is also a possibility.

Splitting families is a good option?

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Splitting families is a good option?

Up to the family if they want to be split. They can stay together if they want to. Just can't stay together in the US.

 

What is YOUR solution? 

5 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Bah humbug....those pesky kids........don't know how good they have it........back in my day........etc, etc, etc

 

 

No, they don't have it good. They're raised to fail. Has nothing to do with "back in my day" For me working before and after school, weekends that was just life. Set me up good for work ethic. I was the one with the neat car and motorcycle in school.

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Up to the family if they want to be split. They can stay together if they want to. Just can't stay together in the US.

 

What is YOUR solution? 

My solution is the rights enshrined in the Constitution.

 

And for people who say they believe in liberty, the rule of law, family values and decency, to live up to those things and stop swallowing Trump and the extremist rightwing hate mongering.

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My solution is the rights enshrined in the Constitution.

 

And for people who say they believe in liberty, the rule of law, family values and decency, to live up to those things and stop swallowing Trump and the extremist rightwing hate mongering.

Fluff.   Just say what you mean without the tapdancing.  Do you want families of illegal aliens to be able to stay legally in the US because they had a child born there? How many does this extend to- siblings, grandparents, cousins....   

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Fluff.   Just say what you mean without the tapdancing.  Do you want families of illegal aliens to be able to stay legally in the US because they had a child born there? How many does this extend to- siblings, grandparents, cousins....   

Children born in the US are Americans, it says do in the Constitution.

 

You need to come to terms with this.

 

Once you have done you’ll grasp the fact Trump is spouting unconstitutional garbage.

 

Ask yourself why you are so willing to swallow it.

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Children born in the US are Americans, it says do in the Constitution.

 

You need to come to terms with this.

 

Once you have done you’ll grasp the fact Trump is spouting unconstitutional garbage.

 

Ask yourself why you are so willing to swallow it.

Not if they change it. Should be changed. Bad law. Trump is right.