Are Expats An Endangered Species?

[solo siam]

Have you seen the beaches in Europe.

Yes.

10 minutes away from me. Of course I never sit on Beaches, that's just for Tourists!

"Jersey - Not in Milton Keynes".

Got to laugh because

a) I'm from Milton Keynes.

b)Jersey's not exactly a 20 minute drive for people is it? besides that beach still looks way too crowded for me, and the phot is probably taken on the least crowded day ever. Like Christmas Day or something.

c) Its probably 10 degrees celcius.

Edited July 15, 2007 by Ben@H3-Digital

[qwertz]

IMO, expats are survivors and most have plenty streetsmarts.

They'll be aware of any unfavourable changes long before they happen and move on to somewhere where they'll be welcome.

[cobra]

The boomers are staging now, flush with fat 401k's and healthy pensions,

Yes, the character of incoming expats will most likely trend toward those with disposable cash and large revenue streams. The line between extended vacations and retirement will blur.

Many will option for vacation property(s) and extended visits, ~ 6 month rotations, and cycle back to their home bases, be it in the west or where ever.

As far current conditions go, that's cyclic as many posters point out, just another day ...

[Robski]

Are Ex-pats an endangered species? Well they certainly are dying out! Ha.. haha.. ha. did somebody already say that? I don't know because I could'nt be bothered to read the whole thread, the title was just shouting SUNDAY WAFFLE THREAD!

This post has been edited by no apparrent reason: Today 2007-07-07 20:07:07 ish

[Pepe']

Have you seen the beaches in Europe.

Yes.

10 minutes away from me. Of course I never sit on Beaches, that's just for Tourists!

"Jersey - Not in Milton Keynes".

Got to laugh because

---------------------------

Hi Ben,

Haven't posted in some time now. Just couldn't resist when I saw your photo looked so much like La Jolla Shores about ten minutes from my house here in San Diego.

Although the beaches do get pretty crowded during the summer season now. During the winter, when you can still get 72 degree days pretty much beautiful year round, the beaches are surprisingly empty.

God Health,

Pepe

a) I'm from Milton Keynes.

b)Jersey's not exactly a 20 minute drive for people is it? besides that beach still looks way too crowded for me, and the phot is probably taken on the least crowded day ever. Like Christmas Day or something.

c) Its probably 10 degrees celcius.

[snoophound]

As long as Thailand has the most beautiful women in Asia people will fight for an expat role here.

Cashed up boomers looking for love and life will also keep coming in droves.

Now if the women were really ugly...then thailands in trouble.

As for the whingeing....well just read the letters to ed in Pattaya mail every week.

Its just bored old codgers with nothing better to do.

Have you seen the beaches in Europe.

Yes.

10 minutes away from me. Of course I never sit on Beaches, that's just for Tourists!

"Jersey - Not in Milton Keynes".

Got to laugh because

---------------------------

Hi Ben,

Haven't posted in some time now. Just couldn't resist when I saw your photo looked so much like La Jolla Shores about ten minutes from my house here in San Diego.

Although the beaches do get pretty crowded during the summer season now. During the winter, when you can still get 72 degree days pretty much beautiful year round, the beaches are surprisingly empty.

God Health,

Pepe

a) I'm from Milton Keynes.

b)Jersey's not exactly a 20 minute drive for people is it? besides that beach still looks way too crowded for me, and the phot is probably taken on the least crowded day ever. Like Christmas Day or something.

c) Its probably 10 degrees celcius.

[Pepe']

As long as Thailand has the most beautiful women in Asia people will fight for an expat role here.

Cashed up boomers looking for love and life will also keep coming in droves.

Now if the women were really ugly...then thailands in trouble.

As for the whingeing....well just read the letters to ed in Pattaya mail every week.

Its just bored old codgers with nothing better to do.

Have you seen the beaches in Europe.

Yes.

10 minutes away from me. Of course I never sit on Beaches, that's just for Tourists!

"Jersey - Not in Milton Keynes".

Got to laugh because

---------------------------

Hi Ben,

Haven't posted in some time now. Just couldn't resist when I saw your photo looked so much like La Jolla Shores about ten minutes from my house here in San Diego.

Although the beaches do get pretty crowded during the summer season now. During the winter, when you can still get 72 degree days pretty much beautiful year round, the beaches are surprisingly empty.

God Health,

Pepe

a) I'm from Milton Keynes.

b)Jersey's not exactly a 20 minute drive for people is it? besides that beach still looks way too crowded for me, and the phot is probably taken on the least crowded day ever. Like Christmas Day or something.

c) Its probably 10 degrees celcius.

--------------------------------

So true...

[sukanyacondo]

There is a current thread where an American in his 60's is asking whether 500K Baht and an income of 35K per month would be sufficient for him and his wife to retire in Chiang Mai. Well, it might have been just possible a few years back, but now it's laughable, and will be come increasingly so in the coming years.

No one can predict the number of farangs who will be living, retiring and/or working in Thailand in the coming years, but there is little doubt that the 'lower end end' farangs - those with disposable incomes of less that 100k per month, will slowly disappear.

I think the cheap old days, where you could live for a pittance, duck and dive on dodgy work permits and visa runs are over for good, and that the increased cost of living will simply force most of those out who have insufficient incomes to survive in the manner to which they are accustomed..

I strongly suspect that these 'lower end' farangs will switch their attention to places like Cambodia and Vietnam and will conclude that Thailand has become beyond their price range.

Places like Pattaya will have to go through an adjustment phase where the sex tourists and 'cheap Charlies' of the 90's and early 2000's will gradually evaporate and be replaced by tourists, and retirees of a different ilk; many with a much higher disposable incomes, and who do not wish to spend their days sitting at beers bars getting blotto on cheap Chang, and persuading some middle aged Issan lady with 3 kids back in the village to give him BJ for the price of a meal.

Farangs won't disappear from LOS however. I agree with Bendix (2nd time in a row ), that the farangs will continue to come. There's more people in the UK earning 6 figure salaries than ever before, and there's plenty of folk around the world who can afford Thailand's increasing prices, and many who will come here to take up proper jobs (not running running bars or restaurants) and will earn high expat salaries, which ironically will help to push prices even higher and force the 'lower end' farangs out of the country.

The next ten years will be interesting.

Less than 100000 per month!!! Blimey what are you buying?? If you owned your own home (yes i know about the land) and car do you really need more than 100000 per month to live "reasonably"??

[sukanyacondo]

Just don't read it. I don't lose any sleep over opinion of people I've never met. (I don't lose any over opinions of people I HAVE met either, lol)

Reminds me of the old mantra - Opinions are like <deleted>, everbody's got one.

= pure logic that even a barbarian Klingon understand

You could add "and are full of sh*t"

[Mobi]

Less than 100000 per month!!! Blimey what are you buying?? If you owned your own home (yes i know about the land) and car do you really need more than 100000 per month to live "reasonably"??

Yes, I have my own home, and my own car - 3 actually - and I spend way in excess of 200,000 per month. If I include my trips abroad and other 'occasional luxuries', I probably spend more than 300K. My utilities alone are approaching 20K per month.

But maybe I'm a bit profligate, so I am assuming that 100k would probably be sufficient for most.

I guess it depends what you want out of life, and your standard of living. I for one, would not be at all comfortable if I had less than 100k per month to spend. That's only 1,500 quid - if you haven't got that much disposable income, I don't know what you are doing in Thailand, and the day will surely come when you won't be able to afford to stay here any longer.

As I said, the days of the 'Cheap Charlies' are drawing to a close . Thailand's loss? Maybe, but this clock is not going to turn back.

[qualtrough]

Less than 100000 per month!!! Blimey what are you buying?? If you owned your own home (yes i know about the land) and car do you really need more than 100000 per month to live "reasonably"??

Yes, I have my own home, and my own car - 3 actually - and I spend way in excess of 200,000 per month. If I include my trips abroad and other 'occasional luxuries', I probably spend more than 300K. My utilities alone are approaching 20K per month.

But maybe I'm a bit profligate, so I am assuming that 100k would probably be sufficient for most.

I guess it depends what you want out of life, and your standard of living. I for one, would not be at all comfortable if I had less than 100k per month to spend. That's only 1,500 quid - if you haven't got that much disposable income, I don't know what you are doing in Thailand, and the day will surely come when you won't be able to afford to stay here any longer.

As I said, the days of the 'Cheap Charlies' are drawing to a close . Thailand's loss? Maybe, but this clock is not going to turn back.

If you want to recreate a Western lifestyle here in its totality there is no limit on the amount of money you can burn each month. If you are comfortable with something less than that you can still live here quite reasonably on amounts far, far less than Mobi requires. It is a peculiarity of the wealthy that they wonder how others less fortunate can survive, but survive they usually do, and often quite pleasantly.

I do not share Mobi's fear that Thailand will become unaffordable to farangs with less than expat compensation packages. Thailand's economy is not doing that well, growth in GDP is not that strong, and we are only a crisis or two away from a baht devaluation.

[Mobi]

[

If you want to recreate a Western lifestyle here in its totality there is no limit on the amount of money you can burn each month. If you are comfortable with something less than that you can still live here quite reasonably on amounts far, far less than Mobi requires. It is a peculiarity of the wealthy that they wonder how others less fortunate can survive, but survive they usually do, and often quite pleasantly.

I do not share Mobi's fear that Thailand will become unaffordable to farangs with less than expat compensation packages. Thailand's economy is not doing that well, growth in GDP is not that strong, and we are only a crisis or two away from a baht devaluation.

I f I wanted to recreate a western lifestyle, I'd live in the west. I live a very comfortable, Thai lifestyle - no different to thousands of Thais with good disposable incomes.

As to surviving - I know all about that as my time in Thailand goes back top the early 70's when I did indeed barely survive as one of the poorest farangs in the land, so I do indeed know how the other half live.

As to being 'fortunate' - well if you consider working 16 hours a day for over 20 years to earn my 'pot of gold' at great expense to my health, being 'fortunate', then so be it.

As to the Thai economy - in spite all the soothsayers of doom and gloom, I see little wrong with it, and I would be extremely surprised if there is any major devaluation. There maybe some downward adjustment, but even on score I remain unconvinced.

I stand by my view that anyone planning top spend a long time here with less than 100k in disposable income, will live to regret that decision.

(I exclude, of course, the few farangs who opt to live in the villages, and really do adopt the rural lifestyle.)

[villagefarang]

I wrote this for another post that got closed before I got finished. It is somewhat relevant here as this is the same kind of lament I have heard over the years, though admittedly more specific and better articulated here. The truth is the Thai world does not begin or end with a bunch of ex-pats. Many Thais wouldn't mind if we all left. The rules change and ex-pats predict the downfall of Thailand and we keep on coming in greater and greater numbers and spend more and more money. Seems like the Thais have our number. They have us by the balls and squeeze at their discretion.

""I'll take the bait. I've heard this lament many times over the years. "Things used to be so much better in the, good-old-days". They said it in the 70s and then again in the 80s and 90s and now you hear it in 2007. I am quite happy to keep moving forward and not look backward. Sure those were great days, in my youth, but Thailand wasn't the only thing to change. I have changed too. I certainly don't have anything to do with the old haunts and habits of my youth. I have long since stopped having much to do with the ex-pat community. This recent exploration of, what blogs and forums are all about, has reminded me why. But I do like to explore new things and learn first hand so here I am, though who knows for how long before I move on to some new experience. Things change and we either adapt or die. I suspect Thailand will still be here whether we are or not.""

[opebo]

Some comments on this thread:

As usual, many members like to rain down abuse on those who have less money. Gentlemen, one's position in the social heirarchy is predetermined by forces outside one's control and doesn't reflect upon one personally in anyway.

We also find many people decrying the 'sex tourist', and also making the assumption that here is a correlation between impecuniousness and libidinousness. Of course there is not - every male in the world, and certainly every male westerner in Thailand is a 'sex tourist' in the sense that we all pay for sex, gentlemen. Why do you think women sleep with men? And why do you think they are more prone to the pretense that is 'for free' with wealthy (aka powerful) men? Obviously because they are playing a long-game and hope the rewards of deception will be greater than giving honest service for an honest price.

Society demands that we condemn women for prostitution, and men for purchasing sex from them. Why?

__________________________________________________________

But as to the question about expatriate life in Thailand.. what keeps people here is actually not that Thailand is so good (and certainly it is getting worse), but that the rest of the world is so very, very bad (and also getting worse).

Edited July 16, 2007 by opebo

[cdnvic]

Some comments on this thread:

As usual, many members like to rain down abuse on those who have less money. Gentlemen, one's position in the social heirarchy is predetermined by forces outside one's control and doesn't reflect upon one personally in anyway.

We also find many people decrying the 'sex tourist', and also making the assumption that here is a correlation between impecuniousness and libidinousness. Of course there is not - every male in the world, and certainly every male westerner in Thailand is a 'sex tourist' in the sense that we all pay for sex, gentlemen. Why do you think women sleep with men? And why do you think they are more prone to the pretense that is 'for free' with wealthy (aka powerful) men? Obviously because they are playing a long-game and hope the rewards of deception will be greater than giving honest service for an honest price.

Can we still rain down abuse for people who post a load of <deleted> like you just did?

[Jimjim]

I think it's so funny when people start talking about how much money you need to live in Thailand. It just cracks me up. The problem is everyone has extremely different standards depending on who you are.

" ... if you haven't got that much disposable income (100,000 baht/month), I don't know what you are doing in Thailand . . . "

Hmm, perhaps enjoying life? Give me a break. That's the kind of money you absolutely need to have where I come from to live an average life, not Thailand.

[Scott]

The situation is probably getting worse, the question is, for how long?

In the 70's, 80's and 90's, it seemed like the only direction was up. Upward mobility was the name of the game. This was true for a lot of Thais as well as expats. With a little work and ingenuity, you could get somewhere. The '97 crash taught everyone some hard lessons, but the situation was pretty close to critical and within a relatively short period things were moving upwards again.

Right now, it seems like everything is moving sideways with no clear direction. I guess one should be glad it's not really downward. But with that goes the positive thinking that has been a cornerstone of the Asian Tigers for a while.

At the same time the country has developed and is beginning to implement so many moralistic rules that make it not unlike the countries many of us left.

I've been here a long while and am established so I don't plan to move, but for people planning on coming here, I tend to agree that you need to have a fair amount of cash or a very secure job when your here. It's not as cheap as it wasn't and changing jobs isn't as easy as it was.

Best to everyone.

[Jingthing]

Yes, Thailand is getting more moralistic, in very silly ways!

Check out this Thai angle to the recent Harry Potter movie:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/130707_Realtime...2007_real23.php

I totally agree and suggest watching the movie in this light.

[qualtrough]

I f I wanted to recreate a western lifestyle, I'd live in the west. I live a very comfortable, Thai lifestyle - no different to thousands of Thais with good disposable incomes.

Mobi, please. Your income is not a 'good' disposable income. It is an excellent income enjoyed by a relative few, both here and even back home. I am not trying to tell you how to live your life or anything like that, but a lifestyle in Thailand that costs 300,000 Baht a month probably puts you in the top 1/2 of 1% of Thai incomes--counted in the low thousands, not millions. So, while it may be 'Thai' in the sense that Thailand is where you make your home, it is in no way even close to typical of the lifestyle of most middle-class and even some upper-class Thais. 300,000 Baht is the equivalent of US$8695, or US$ 104,347/yr. For comparative purposes, the highest median family income in the US in 2003 was found in Connecticut at $56,409/yr., and for most of those families it means two wage earners. So, while it is fine for you, and I am happy that you enjoy such a hard-earned lifestyle, your estimations of what it takes to survive or to be comfortable here are only really applicable to a very tiny segment of both Thai and Western society.

One more thing. I am genuinely curious as how you can spend that much per month on a Thai lifestlye, so I hope you don't mind my asking if you would mind sharing a rough breakdown for a typical month? I am not having a dig at you, I really would like to see how that breaks down.

Edited July 16, 2007 by qualtrough

[Mobi]

One more thing. I am genuinely curious as how you can spend that much per month on a Thai lifestlye, so I hope you don't mind my asking if you would mind sharing a rough breakdown for a typical month? I am not having a dig at you, I really would like to see how that breaks down.

Yes.. well, I hope it is not a sin to have earned a comfortable retirement from the sweat of own brow - because I can assure you that I was born with a rusty fork down my throat, and nothing came easy.

If you read what I said carefully, I did say that if I include 'occasional luxuries' and trips abroad, my expenditure exceeds 300K.

Actually, I now regret mentioning anything about my income levels, but as I have opened this particular 'Pandora's Box, I could further state that if wanted to I could afford to spend in excess of 500k per month without disturbing my income producing assets - but that would be bragging..

But even that level, its is way below my monthly earnings before I retired, and let's face it anyone earning a six figure sterling salary - even after allowing for 40% tax, would net over 500k in Baht per month. And these days people earning that kind of money are two a penny.

I don't know why it is that you have to acquaint living in Thailand with the need to live frugally; and if you don't live frugally, you are somehow not playing the Thai game, and that you are importing a western style of living into the country. Nothing could be further from the truth - I could afford to live anywhere in the world, but I happen to have chosen Thailand, because I like the people and like their way of life.

As to a breakdown my monthly expenses - well that is between me and my ATM.

I will say that I do try to keep my spending levels at around 200k , but most months it just doesn't happen. I will also say that there are quite a number of Thai relations who one way or another depend upon me for their daily bread - but IMHO, they are all good people, and I am happy to help them, as they also make genuine efforts to help themselves.

And I can't take it with me...

Then there's the rubber plantation......

[soundman]

I will say that I do try to keep my spending levels at around 200k , but most months it just doesn't happen. I will also say that there are quite a number of Thai relations who one way or another depend upon me for their daily bread - but IMHO, they are all good people, and I am happy to help them, as they also make genuine efforts to help themselves.

And I can't take it with me...

Then there's the rubber plantation......

I'm with you on this one mobi, I can understand & relate to the figures.

Our household comprises of six adults, five children & four house staff. House is owned outright. Seven personal vehicles. Three vehicles under finance.

Food - 20,000 per month.

Utilities - 20,000 per month.

Vehicles - 95,000 per month.

Schooling - 15,000 per month.

Medical (Insurance) - 10,000 per month.

Petrol - 30,000 per month.

Mobile Phones - 8,000 per month.

Entertainment (three adult males in family , family outings, dinners, beer etc.) - 40,000 per month.

Misc. (presents, everyday spontaneous shopping stuff, wife has a shoe fetish ) - 40,000 per month.

So approx 250k - 300k per month for a large family, living in comparable higher middle class environment of the west.

All money is generated in Thailand with the father in laws various business's accounting for a good proportion of this.

Soundman.

[qualtrough]

Mobi, I have no quarrel with you living as you please, really. The only issue I have is that I get the impression from your posts that you feel that your expenditures are somewhat typical when they are nowhere near so. Perhaps that is not what you intended.

Edited July 16, 2007 by qualtrough

[Valjean]

I know you can live cheap here but... I have tried had to get the GF to manage the budget to 150,000 THB and it doesn't happen often. And that doesn't count trips abroad or unexpected bigger expenses. Also I do have nights on the town with the boys from time to time and for sure one needs extra budget for that. Not included is anything for my ex and kids stateside (finished with college thank God!). Anyway I don't feel I'm way out there in some hi-so lifestyle. I apprecaite that it's not even close to average Thai but it's not "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" by a long shot.

Rent 25,000 nice 3 bedroom, 3 bath house in a very nice close in Bangkok area that is almost all Thai

Car Payments 30,960 did a 50% down 50% 2 years when I came here - one more month...

Car Insurance 3,200

Health Insurance 2,500 we will get married in a few months then my company pays :-)

GF Tuition 2,000 she is finishing university

Son pre-school 5,000 when the little guy heads off to real school times by 10

Utilities 1,500

True Internet 1,500

UBC 1,500

Gas 6,000 we do go upcountry a lot - that's expensice and this might be more

Car Repairs 500

Food & eating out 30,000 this is high I think but there are the splurges. I love wine but pay mostly from another budget

Clothes and Misc 10,000 it's her Clinque that breaks this budget!

Entertainment/Holiday 20,000 - not the major trips

Money to GF's Family 7,000 - this will always be more with one thing or another but this is the budgeted amount

Maid, Guard 5,300

Health Club 2,000

Total Expenses 155,000+

I will retire here but I think with buffer for inflation, currency and doing some travel I won't feel secure until it's at least 300,000 a month. 200,000 would be cutting it too close. Maybe if one owns the car and house it could be less but I'd hate to bet on it. I could live cheap - I am happy to eat Som Tom off the street and laze around in my shorts. But things add up.

[rogercw]

Some good points by prior posters and some not so good.

Use reasonable police work to get rid of undesirable ex-pats. Sounds good but unless the corruption level of the police is reduced the only ones removed from the country will be those who do not pay off.

Keeping the tourist / expat goups you have and adding more upscale ones is a solid goal. Deciding to flush out the low income ones you have and assuming they will be replaced with the same number of high income falangs. Good if it works but will it work?

The dollar is definetly going down now but will it keep going down forever? Some currency speculators are betting one way and some the other way.

I do not have an income of 300,000 baht a month like a couple of posters seem to have. I know a few who do and a lot who don't. Does this mean I should not be allowed to live in Thailand? Personally I don't need a big house with a staff of four plus 3 cars to be comfortable, although possesion of such would be nice. I remember years ago Donald Trump was having troubles and his banks put him on an allowance of 500,000 DOLLARS a month. He probably felt deprived until he got the restrictions off. If Paris Hilton had to live on a million baht a month she might kill herself. My pension is about 70,000 baht and I spend about 50,000 of it. I make no trouble for Thailand and there sure are a whole lot of people like me here. Do the rif raff like me have to leave to make room for our betters?

There seems to be a large snob attitude on the board as to Pattaya. I live here because it is close to Bangkok but living expenses are a lot cheaper. Few of the expats living here are in the bars 7 days a week getting drunk and making fools of themselves. Two week tourists yes, but there are a lot of places in Europe where they do the same thing.

I like it here. If Thailand ever decides I should go give me six hours to pack up and I can be at the airport heading for somewhere that does want me.

[chinthee]

Some good points by prior posters and some not so good.

Use reasonable police work to get rid of undesirable ex-pats. Sounds good but unless the corruption level of the police is reduced the only ones removed from the country will be those who do not pay off.

Keeping the tourist / expat goups you have and adding more upscale ones is a solid goal. Deciding to flush out the low income ones you have and assuming they will be replaced with the same number of high income falangs. Good if it works but will it work?

The dollar is definetly going down now but will it keep going down forever? Some currency speculators are betting one way and some the other way.

I do not have an income of 300,000 baht a month like a couple of posters seem to have. I know a few who do and a lot who don't. Does this mean I should not be allowed to live in Thailand? Personally I don't need a big house with a staff of four plus 3 cars to be comfortable, although possesion of such would be nice. I remember years ago Donald Trump was having troubles and his banks put him on an allowance of 500,000 DOLLARS a month. He probably felt deprived until he got the restrictions off. If Paris Hilton had to live on a million baht a month she might kill herself. My pension is about 70,000 baht and I spend about 50,000 of it. I make no trouble for Thailand and there sure are a whole lot of people like me here. Do the rif raff like me have to leave to make room for our betters?

There seems to be a large snob attitude on the board as to Pattaya. I live here because it is close to Bangkok but living expenses are a lot cheaper. Few of the expats living here are in the bars 7 days a week getting drunk and making fools of themselves. Two week tourists yes, but there are a lot of places in Europe where they do the same thing.

I like it here. If Thailand ever decides I should go give me six hours to pack up and I can be at the airport heading for somewhere that does want me.

I like your post. When I originally posted this, it was really aimed at people like yourself. Good, upstanding citizens who just don't have the higher incomes. I think it's a real shame if people like you get pushed out by the visa restrictions. There really should be some other process other than just income as a determination.

[Mobi]

Mobi, I have no quarrel with you living as you please, really. The only issue I have is that I get the impression from your posts that you feel that your expenditures are somewhat typical when they are nowhere near so. Perhaps that is not what you intended.

Well we won't pursue this to the n'th degree, but you may recall that all I said was that any farang having less than 100k in disposable income may be heading for trouble.

I added that I spent in excess of 200K, but that was simply to emphasise the point that 100k these days it is not that much, and in the course of time will become less and less.

If was spending 80k per month (and I could live on that if I had to), and my total income was under 100k with no prospects of it increasing, I would be extremely worried about my future in Thailand - especially if I had people depending on me.

With regard to a tiny majority of 'super rich' spending 200-300k per month - well I think some of the recent posts suggest that it is much more widespread than you think, and will become more the norm over the next 5 - 10 years.

It may sound patronising and degrading to use the phrase 'Cheap Charlie', but that's what farangs are who live on very low incomes in LOS - I know because I used to be one - and I fear they will start to feel the pinch in the not too distant future.

But I'm not against them and I am not advocating their departure - I'm simply calling the shots as I see them.

[Jingthing]

Mobi, I have no quarrel with you living as you please, really. The only issue I have is that I get the impression from your posts that you feel that your expenditures are somewhat typical when they are nowhere near so. Perhaps that is not what you intended.

It may sound patronising and degrading to use the phrase 'Cheap Charlie', but that's what farangs are who live on very low incomes in LOS - I know because I used to be one - and I fear they will start to feel the pinch in the not too distant future.

.

Mr. Mobi.

It may sound patronizing, huh? No. It really sounds rude, dehumanizing, judgemental, and morally superior as if your bigger money makes you a more superior human being. It doesn't. There is a word for your attitude. It starts with an A and ends with an E. And it a much worse thing to be than a so called Cheap Charlie.

Of course, many things are easier in life if you have a surplus of money and harder if you don't, but human beings are wonderfully adaptable.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Jingthing

[bendix]

Uh oh Mobi. Now you're in trouble.

hel_l hath no fury than a cheap charlie scorned.

Still, on the upside, at least it's not me in trouble this time (although, frankly, I echo your thoughts exactly) ;-)

Edited July 16, 2007 by bendix

[Jingthing]

Uh oh Mobi. Now you're in trouble.

hel_l hath no fury than a cheap charlie scorned.

Still, on the upside, at least it's not me in trouble this time (although, frankly, I echo your thoughts exactly) ;-)

There you go again.

What is your definition of Cheap Charlie? I doubt I would fit it, but then again, I doubt you even really have a definition, you just enjoy dehumanizing people who aren't like you by calling them names,

So, what is a so called Cheap Charlie?

A pensioner on a limited budget who is careful with his money out of survival necessity or perhaps a miser dollar multimillionaire who won't give 10,000 dollars to a suffering relative?

You, see, each of us in a unique human being and also each of us deals with economic realities in different ways.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

Mobi, I have no quarrel with you living as you please, really. The only issue I have is that I get the impression from your posts that you feel that your expenditures are somewhat typical when they are nowhere near so. Perhaps that is not what you intended.

It may sound patronising and degrading to use the phrase 'Cheap Charlie', but that's what farangs are who live on very low incomes in LOS - I know because I used to be one - and I fear they will start to feel the pinch in the not too distant future.

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Mr. Mobi.

It may sound patronizing, huh? No. It really sounds rude, dehumanizing, judgemental, and morally superior as if your bigger money makes you a more superior human being. It doesn't. There is a word for your attitude. It starts with an A and ends with an E. And it a much worse thing to be than a so called Cheap Charlie.

Of course, many things are easier in life if you have a surplus of money and harder if you don't, but human beings are wonderfully adaptable.

Next time you're in Bangkok, go to Soi 11 Sukhumvit, and a few meters up on the left you will find a small sub soi. About twenty meters into this sub soi is a bar called "Cheap Charlies". It has been there for many a year.

And you you know who drinks there?

Got it in one - "Cheap Charlies".

The bar is so cheap and the custom so impecunious that the management insists on payment in advance.

And just to wreak the wrath of all the PC minded farangs in Thailand, I will tell you that when I recently went there and ordered a drink for myself and my wife, I was the only one who was allowed to have a check bin pot and not pay in advance.

Why? Well your guess is as good as mine, but I can only imagine they recognised a man of substance when they saw one

Call me what you like my friend but I think that 'Cheap Charlie' is an extremely illuminating, and apt epithet.

Once upon a time - back in those distant, far off days, I was such a cheap Charlie that I used to try and creep out of bars without paying - and if that didn't work, I'd make some of the check bins disappear from the pot when no-one was looking.

And the favourite trick amongst us cheap Charlies, was to order coke (about 6 Baht in those days) and lace it with Mekhong from bands in our pockets.

You see I come from a long line of Cheap Charlies - and it takes one to know one - but I realised that if I was ever to get on in this world, it behoved me to quit being a cheap Charlie and do something with my life. Which is what I did.

And that my dear friend, is why I consider I have the right to call a spade a spade and a Cheap Charlie a Cheap Charlie.

And if you don't like it - it's tough sh..t.