Legacy admissions: Harvard accused of favouring mostly white students

[JCauto]

On 7/7/2023 at 11:26 AM, Hanaguma said:

Sure. Can you explain why recent immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean outperform African Americans? And why discriminating against Asian immigrants and their children is a rational and fair solution to the problem.

Well, that explains your reasoning - you should go better into Comedy, Mel Brooks is a good model to follow if the 200-year old man is your schtick.

 

Your response to my explanation that the problems that underlie the African-American community are the product of two hundred plus years of discrimination and systemic racism was to identify new people from abroad who haven't been disadvantaged in this way and asking why they're doing so well despite sharing similar genetic characteristics. Thanks for clearly proving my point.

 

You might consider catching up on the latest research and understanding that's come out since the quill and inkwell lost their predominant place in the writing world.

[Hanaguma]

21 hours ago, JCauto said:

Well, that explains your reasoning - you should go better into Comedy, Mel Brooks is a good model to follow if the 200-year old man is your schtick.

 

Your response to my explanation that the problems that underlie the African-American community are the product of two hundred plus years of discrimination and systemic racism was to identify new people from abroad who haven't been disadvantaged in this way and asking why they're doing so well despite sharing similar genetic characteristics. Thanks for clearly proving my point.

 

You might consider catching up on the latest research and understanding that's come out since the quill and inkwell lost their predominant place in the writing world.

Wow, you think African immigrants from Africa haven't been disadvantaged?!?  Growing up in Somalia or Uganda or Nigeria is a cakewalk compared to growing up in the US? Sorry, but these are people who are escaping from actual injustice, death, and threat of torture.  Precisely what advantages do you think they have?

 

Ditto Asian immigrants, both recent and past. Guess you never heard of the Chinese Exclusion Acts, or the forcible internment of Japanese Americans, or the plight of the Vietnamese boat people, or the horrors experienced by those who survived the genocide in Cambodia and could escape to freedom. Yeah, they had it GOOD...

[EVENKEEL]

36 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Wow, you think African immigrants from Africa haven't been disadvantaged?!?  Growing up in Somalia or Uganda or Nigeria is a cakewalk compared to growing up in the US? Sorry, but these are people who are escaping from actual injustice, death, and threat of torture.  Precisely what advantages do you think they have?

 

Ditto Asian immigrants, both recent and past. Guess you never heard of the Chinese Exclusion Acts, or the forcible internment of Japanese Americans, or the plight of the Vietnamese boat people, or the horrors experienced by those who survived the genocide in Cambodia and could escape to freedom. Yeah, they had it GOOD...

Thomas Sowell has an interesting view on why of that subject.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Thomas Sowell has an interesting view on why of that subject.

Sowell said a lot of things, if you explain which particular view you are referring to the rest of us can see whether or not you understood it.

 

 

[JCauto]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Wow, you think African immigrants from Africa haven't been disadvantaged?!?  Growing up in Somalia or Uganda or Nigeria is a cakewalk compared to growing up in the US? Sorry, but these are people who are escaping from actual injustice, death, and threat of torture.  Precisely what advantages do you think they have?

 

Ditto Asian immigrants, both recent and past. Guess you never heard of the Chinese Exclusion Acts, or the forcible internment of Japanese Americans, or the plight of the Vietnamese boat people, or the horrors experienced by those who survived the genocide in Cambodia and could escape to freedom. Yeah, they had it GOOD...

You need to follow your own logic, but instead you're too busy tying yourself into a pretzel to broadcast your illogical and out-of-date viewpoints. 

 

Are you aware that the majority of immigrants to the USA are legal ones who go through the process and are rated on a scale based on education, job experience, age, etc.? These tend to weed out the poor and heavily disadvantage and prioritize the best possible candidates. The refugees and other hardship cases are not the majority. So why does it surprise you that immigrants out-perform those who were disadvantaged from the start?

 

You live outside of the experience of immigrants and POC but are perfectly comfortable drawing completely irrelevant and incorrect assertions about them.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, JCauto said:

You live outside of the experience of immigrants and POC but are perfectly comfortable drawing completely irrelevant and incorrect assertions about them.

And that’s the issue.

 

But when people are wedded to making and expressing pejorative judgements on other ethnic groups, they’re not like to engage in the introspection required to see the absurdity of their beliefs.

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Sowell said a lot of things, if you explain which particular view you are referring to the rest of us can see whether or not you understood it.

 

 

Perhaps the post I replied to might give a hint. 

[Hanaguma]

8 hours ago, JCauto said:

You need to follow your own logic, but instead you're too busy tying yourself into a pretzel to broadcast your illogical and out-of-date viewpoints. 

 

Are you aware that the majority of immigrants to the USA are legal ones who go through the process and are rated on a scale based on education, job experience, age, etc.? These tend to weed out the poor and heavily disadvantage and prioritize the best possible candidates. The refugees and other hardship cases are not the majority. So why does it surprise you that immigrants out-perform those who were disadvantaged from the start?

 

You live outside of the experience of immigrants and POC but are perfectly comfortable drawing completely irrelevant and incorrect assertions about them.

Majority  of immigrants  perhaps, but not majority of African  immigrants. Countries like Somalia and Tanzania  half or more were refugee or asylum seekers. Man more were Diversity Lottery or family. 

 

It all shows that there is great diversity  in the African immigrants community, just as there is with the native African  American  community.  Which is precisely  why Affirmative  Action  is unfair.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Majority  of immigrants  perhaps, but not majority of African  immigrants. Countries like Somalia and Tanzania  half or more were refugee or asylum seekers. Man more were Diversity Lottery or family. 

 

It all shows that there is great diversity  in the African immigrants community, just as there is with the native African  American  community.  Which is precisely  why Affirmative  Action  is unfair.

Affirmative Action isn’t the topic of this thread.

 

“Legacy admissions: Harvard accused of favouring mostly white students”

[Hanaguma]

True enough. So let me repeat what I said earlier...

 

...in the story it says that 70% of the legacy applicants are white. Therefore, 30% are not.  Given that the US population as a whole is from 60 to 76% white, why is this a problem? Seems that there is enough diversity in the legacy class to make it at least superficially resemble the nation as a whole.

 

Plus this group comprises something like 28% of freshman admissions as a whole.  Not great but no impediment either. 

[heybruce]

46 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

True enough. So let me repeat what I said earlier...

 

...in the story it says that 70% of the legacy applicants are white. Therefore, 30% are not.  Given that the US population as a whole is from 60 to 76% white, why is this a problem? Seems that there is enough diversity in the legacy class to make it at least superficially resemble the nation as a whole.

 

Plus this group comprises something like 28% of freshman admissions as a whole.  Not great but no impediment either. 

"The complaint cites studies published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, a think tank, that shows nearly 70% of legacy and donor-related applicants are white, and that such students are six to seven times more likely to be admitted to Harvard than non-legacy applicants."

 

"It goes on to state that these preferences are "conferred without regard to the applicant's credentials or merits"..."

 

Perhaps it's that second part that upsets people.