They are spitting into the wind... To change the constitution, the proposal needs to be voted on by the entire 750 seat assembly. They need a simple majority (376 of 750) to change the constitution, but they can't even get a simple majority to seat Pita as PM. Not to mention a change in the constitution (if approved by majority vote of the assembly) needs to be voted on by the Thai people, and there is no guarantee it could pass that vote (many people will simply see it as a way to undermine the monarchy). I like Pita, but he is a political novice, and it shows. His advisors are doing him no good. He failed to understand that he has no mandate (he only garnered 151/30% of the MPs from the May referendum), he also failed to understand the emotions tired to sec.112, and he was careless in his preparation (not divesting iTV). The power structure is going to crush him... if not now, then eventually when the EC disqualifies him, or the constitutional court rules on the now open case against that he disrespected the monarchy with his sec.112 position. If he wanted to save his political life he should have backed down from sec.112. He could have then championed all his other initiatives/causes while PM. Now he is likely to end up with nothing, and the country stifled.

Edited July 15, 20232 yr by Cabradelmar

1 minute ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Agreed.

And the next (Move Even Further Forward) Party may have more sense than their leader not disclosing shares in media companies? And keep "shtum" about making changes to  a certain Thai "Constitution"? 

As stated in a related post I am glad Pita is calling out these guys. He is absolutely correct. But, the people might need to take charge now. 

 

These senators need to be declared enemies of the state. They are essentially committing treason, at this point. A list of their names and photos needs to be circulated. The people need to call them and their children, siblings, and parents out at work, at school, at restaurants, and in public. Shame them into submission. Make their lives, and those of their family, utterly miserable. 

Embarrass them to no end.

Make them conscious of the incredible amount of damage and erosion to democracy they are causing, and let Cha Cha know we are not buying his "I will be cooperative, and honor the results" nonsense.  

 

If these illigitimate clowns don't act like adults and cooperate, all bets are off. Their health, safety and welfare could be in jeopardy. The people will not tolerate it. It is time for the people to declare war on these senators, who are being hugely irresponsible by honoring the wish of the army to continue milking the nation.

 

Let the people make the decisions, not highly corrupt, totally compromised men who have sold their soul to the heinous, toxic army. 

 

Edited July 15, 20232 yr by spidermike007

1 hour ago, sambum said:

And the next (Move Even Further Forward) Party may have more sense than their leader not disclosing shares in media companies? And keep "shtum" about making changes to  a certain Thai "Constitution"? 

He disclosed the shares to the NAAC years ago.

1 hour ago, Cabradelmar said:

They are spitting into the wind... To change the constitution, the proposal needs to be voted on by the entire 750 seat assembly. They need a simple majority (376 of 750) to change the constitution, but they can't even get a simple majority to seat Pita as PM. Not to mention a change in the constitution (if approved by majority vote of the assembly) needs to be voted on by the Thai people, and there is no guarantee it could pass that vote (many people will simply see it as a way to undermine the monarchy). I like Pita, but he is a political novice, and it shows. His advisors are doing him no good. He failed to understand that he has no mandate (he only garnered 151/30% of the MPs from the May referendum), he also failed to understand the emotions tired to sec.112, and he was careless in his preparation (not divesting iTV). The power structure is going to crush him... if not now, then eventually when the EC disqualifies him, or the constitutional court rules on the now open case against that he disrespected the monarchy with his sec.112 position. If he wanted to save his political life he should have backed down from sec.112. He could have then championed all his other initiatives/causes while PM. Now he is likely to end up with nothing, and the country stifled.

The 112 issue is just an excuse to oppose him. The real reason the elite oppose him is his reforms:

Reduce the size of the army, number of generals

Cancel conscription

Reduce the civil service

End monopolies, I,e in the alcohol sector

Reduce privileges for the elite

Increase taxes on the rich 

These senators were installed illegally by an illegitimate government of military usurpers and their votes and opinions should count for nothing. Give democracy a chance - this is Thailand's best ever hope.

6 hours ago, brommers said:

This is a naive and stupid reaction taken in anger. It will certainly not proceed to enactment but will harden the already strong case against MFP in the minds of the military back elements that control matters. MFP will not exist in a very short time because the Con Court will ensure it is dissolved, just like Future Forward.

The military backed elements are already against MFP so there's nothing to lose in that respect. Pitas strategy is to keep shining the spotlight on the egregious nature of the whole senator vote rigging arrangement so that people are more aware (and angry) regarding it's purpose 

46 minutes ago, bannork said:

The 112 issue is just an excuse to oppose him. The real reason the elite oppose him is his reforms:

Just as Sondhi and the Yellow Shirts did. Politicized a revered institution and get the people emotional.

 

Same playbook. 

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

This once again calls into question what planet the Party inhabits. First, we had Pita retaining shares, however worthless, in violation of the election laws which could ban him from being an MP, let alone PM. And now they fan the flames by waving a red flag to the bulls. Alice Through the Looking Glass.

Perhaps, just perhaps, MFP (and Pheu Thai for that matter) realised from the start, before the election, that they would never be allowed anywhere near government. So they will make as much trouble and noise as possible, to provoke a popular uprising which will bring down the whole rotten, corrupt, gerrymandered system.

 

Playing the long game.

Clever move let’s hope it goes through what’s the point of having these unelected clowns if they cannot be bothered to vote Yay or Nay or stay at home because they can’t be bothered turning up in my view those who abstain or fail to attend should be regarded as a yes vote 

6 hours ago, rwill said:

When Prawit is nominated I bet all the senators show up to vote.

He will be a dead man walking as very few bills will go through due to the coalition opposition I am sure there is a way to bring the government down if the wrong PM is voted in meaning another GE would have to take place and I am confident that MFP would win by a staggering number of votes 

2 hours ago, bannork said:

The 112 issue is just an excuse to oppose him. The real reason the elite oppose him is his reforms:

Reduce the size of the army, number of generals

Cancel conscription

Reduce the civil service

End monopolies, I,e in the alcohol sector

Reduce privileges for the elite

Increase taxes on the rich 

Sure. He keeps handing them excuses on a silver platter. He failed to realize he needed to remain coy and less committed to legislative points until he was seated. His MOU was a playbook to oppose his PM appointment. 

17 hours ago, mark131v said:

Interesting times ahead, blatantly obvious that the senators are only in place for 2 things the first of which is self enrichment and the second to uphold the status quo and stop any semblance of democracy slipping into Thai politics, they are an abomination and should be treated as such...

That's the very definition of senator.  Self enrichment aside, the Senate was invented in Rome to give the appearance of democracy and still avoid having to listen to the public.  They are doing their job just fine.  

The brown envelopes will be falling through the Senator's letter boxes as we post.

A post with a trolling meme has been removed.

17 hours ago, SABloke said:

Surely abstensions should lower the total number of legal representative votes i.e. if 50 people abstain the required majority becomes 351 (not 376) etc. Still including abstensions in the total without adjusting the numbers just makes them "no" votes. Nonsense. Why not say then that an abstension equals a "yes" vote? Equally ludicrous. 

Totally agree. In my book, abstention means you don't care either way how the vote goes, so your vote don't count and the number for majority becomes lover. 

They must be using some weird Thai maths... 

21 hours ago, mark131v said:

Interesting times ahead, blatantly obvious that the senators are only in place for 2 things the first of which is self enrichment and the second to uphold the status quo and stop any semblance of democracy slipping into Thai politics, they are an abomination and should be treated as such...

They were never elected just put into power by the ruling junta 

10 hours ago, sambum said:

And the next (Move Even Further Forward) Party may have more sense than their leader not disclosing shares in media companies? And keep "shtum" about making changes to  a certain Thai "Constitution"? 

Unfortunately. I think the sensible and not far-reaching amendments proposed earned MFP many of their votes.

It doesn't matter what our opinions are thought about the junta rigged the last election after they foeced out a democratic PM via an armed Coup, the last PM was a General and they will rig this next election to place another general in his place.

7 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

Sure. He keeps handing them excuses on a silver platter. He failed to realize he needed to remain coy and less committed to legislative points until he was seated. His MOU was a playbook to oppose his PM appointment. 

I call B.S. 

His policy positions are WHY he won so dramatically. 

2 hours ago, Mike k said:

They were never elected just put into power by the ruling junta 

And this appears to be ignored, dismissed, irreverent and accepted by most circles. 

 

the more things change the more they remain the same.

22 hours ago, eisfeld said:

There is a fine detail. It does not state that the five year period starts from the day of the enactment of the constitution but from the date of the first installation of the National Assembly. That happened after the elections in 2019. So same like the current senators this Section 272 will expire May of next year.

Thank you, eisfeld. I had noticed but subsequently failed to include that detail in the convoluted chronology when I wrote my post.

 

Now I've got a clear picture and understand that everything currently playing out before our eyes is democratically above board.

 

Edited July 15, 20232 yr by Puccini

On 7/14/2023 at 11:56 PM, snoop1130 said:

“is a clear indication that they do not wish to exercise their right and authority in the selection of the prime minister.”

That's not how I read it. I see it as a bunch of cowering thugs trying to hide from their responsibilities by doing nothing.

A bit late, the cake is in the oven. Best of luck though.

15 hours ago, SpaceKadet said:

Totally agree. In my book, abstention means you don't care either way how the vote goes, so your vote don't count and the number for majority becomes lover. 

They must be using some weird Thai maths...

Not sure that applies in the strange culture of Thailand..... an abstention is probably close to a no vote... but loses less face for the person making the vote, and the recipient, than a NO vote. In a culture avoiding the confrontation, it fits. Sadly it being counted as against appears wrong.... 

That constitutional amendment a few years back, was a clever stitch up,

Edited July 15, 20232 yr by jacko45k

A coup goverment I would hope is unlawful in Thailand and as such any changes they make to the constitution to maintain their unlawful attainment of power should also be unlawful  and should also be challenged as such IMO 

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

A coup goverment I would hope is unlawful in Thailand and as such any changes they make to the constitution to maintain their unlawful attainment of power should also be unlawful  and should also be challenged as such IMO 

One has to form a government first and that has to be done under the existing rules. A right stitch up!

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

One has to form a government first and that has to be done under the existing rules. A right stitch up!

A catch 22 situation?

By no means am I a Thai legal or constitutional expert, but I am sure the constitutionality of a law is not determined by those who endeavour to usurp the constitution, but by The Constitutional Court of Kingdom of Thailand.

   Of course such court might be stacked by coup sympathisers elected there by those who illegally gained power and as such  those appointments would  need to be challenged, or at nest should refute themselves on the grounds of partiality.

 

I am sure PITA who is well educated knows all given the situation is making the politically correct decisions at this stage.

16 hours ago, brommers said:

This is a naive and stupid reaction taken in anger. It will certainly not proceed to enactment but will harden the already strong case against MFP in the minds of the military back elements that control matters. MFP will not exist in a very short time because the Con Court will ensure it is dissolved, just like Future Forward.

Gotta disagree, brommers. There's 'the long game' (going along with conventional Thai political & cultural norms that may or may not offer opportunities for change - but never does) that has its merits, but then there's the moment to ride a good tide, and this is it. 

There is only one way to go here and MFP know it, not just to benefit themselves but for the country to do what its own party name conveys: move forward. So, in some ways, yes, to benefit themselves but only to allow them the chance to (by one day leading a govt) ......finally see that their way of governing & reforming the system can make the country realize its....cliche alert....potential.

In fact, in doing this, they are playing the long game imo (even though it may be the only 'game' they can play right now, I admit.)

 

Brommers, I respect your view but beg to differ in my own. 

40 minutes ago, sirineou said:

A coup goverment I would hope is unlawful in Thailand and as such any changes they make to the constitution to maintain their unlawful attainment of power should also be unlawful  and should also be challenged as such IMO 

Wasn't it a coup-based government[s] that revised and mangled the last edition of the constitution and the one previous and the half dozen versions before that?  

 

So much for unlawfulness when these cabals can rewrite most everything [and accepted by most] on a whim to protect themselves and future cohorts.