Thai organisations challenge Senate’s prime ministerial authority

[webfact]

 

Amidst ongoing political turmoil in Thailand, a collective of forty organisations including pro-democracy bodies, non-governmental agencies, and civil society factions made a united call.

 

The appeal, presented to the media yesterday, demanded governmental respect for the general election held on May 14th. It emphasised recognition of the Move Forward Party due to its public support and backed its leader for the role of prime minister.

 

The joint appeal also challenged Section 272, intending to revoke the Senate’s right to co-elect the prime minister. It sought to counteract adjustments made to the electoral system by the Constitution Drafting Assembly of Thailand.

 

Following the victory of the Move Forward Party (MFP) in the May 14th polls, the party’s leader, Pita Limjaroenrat, was chosen unanimously by the eight coalition parties on July 13th as the single candidate for the prime minister role.

 

by Mitch Connor

Photo caption: Pita Limjaroenrat, the leader of Move Forward Party, center. and Leader of Pheu Thai party Chonlanan Srikaew, left , wave to supporters after meeting in Bangkok, Thailand, Monday, July 17. (AP Photo/Sakchai Lalit)

 

Full story: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thai-organisations-challenge-senates-prime-ministerial-authority

 

-- © Copyright Thaiger 2023-07-18

 

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[bamnutsak]

I think quite a few folks recognized this "feature" which Meechai and other crafters added, was meant to keep control. And quite a few pointed out the inherent un-democratic nature of this unelected, appointed (by the NCPO), body.

 

Now we get to see how poor a choice this was. 

 

 

Non-elected Senate a reliable buffer: Meechai

 

A NON-ELECTED Senate, as set out in the draft constitution, could be relied upon because its members would have no connection with political parties, chief charter writer Meechai Ruchupan said Tuesday.

 

“Elected MPs can also be trusted, but sometimes they have to act in accordance with the directions of their party, which might have a particular ambition. This leads to things going wrong,” he said at a press conference on the charter draft’s completion and submission to the Cabinet Tuesday.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/30282821

 

[AussieinThaiJim]

If the Senators fail to arrive at the sitting they give up their right to elect the PM

[DjSilver]

Well, everyone already knows that the senate and every law that the dictator Prayut changed or implemented are illegal. The true law is what it was after his takeover.

[OneZero]

Does this description of 20 years ago still apply?

Thailand:  A Feudal Patronage Society Masquerading as a Constitutional Monarchy

[Bangkok Barry]

Well. it's a bit late now to protest the role of the senators. They were hand-picked for one purpose and one purpose only - to deny the people the government of their choosing if they voted the 'wrong' way.

[OneZero]

Remember 19 May 2010 the government crackdown after lengthy protests in Lumpini Park.  Tires burning outside my condo on Rama IV rd.

[OneZero]

19 may 2010 - if I remember correctly over a hundred people killed.

 

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts discussing the French Revolution have been removed.

 

this is what the topic is about:

Thai organisations challenge Senate’s prime ministerial authority

[Cabradelmar]

I admire their resolve... however, it is, as the saying goes, "a day late and a dollar short"... Thai people failed to pay attention (in the moment when it matter) when the Junta's constitution was drafted and put in front of the monarchy for acceptance, that it was designed to keep military control over Thai politics and it's people for the foreseeable future.

[hotchilli]

The peoples majority voted for the MFP party...

As a coalition they should each nominate who they wish to put forward as PM..

Let the people vote again for the PM position.

Nothing to do with the hand-selected [un-elected] senate.

[Arthur Mullard]

9 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Remember 19 May 2010 the government crackdown after lengthy protests in Lumpini Park.  Tires burning outside my condo on Rama IV rd.

Incredible scenes....

[OneZero]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Mullard said:

Incredible scenes....

Just a few of many I have.  I hesitated to post more for fear they would just be taken down.

 

[OneZero]

28 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Does this description of 20 years ago still apply?

Thailand:  A Feudal Patronage Society Masquerading as a Constitutional Monarchy

Rhetorical question.  With the current Constitution & an appointed Senate, it absolutely still applies.

[Artisi]

I see nothing wrong with an unelected senate, provided they are picked by a sitting of parliament where all elected politicians are involved in the selection process and voted on by all elected members as against being picked and accepted by a junta aimed solely at ensuring their own survival.

[mfd101]

19 minutes ago, Artisi said:

I see nothing wrong with an unelected senate, provided they are picked by a sitting of parliament where all elected politicians are involved in the selection process and voted on by all elected members as against being picked and accepted by a junta aimed solely at ensuring their own survival.

And what would be the point of that? You don't need an upper house just for the sake of having an upper house.

[TheFishman1]

Not to change the subject that ex Prime Minister the  general they should investigate we’re all his money came from TIT

[Srikcir]

"there were 43 senators who abstained from voting last Thursday, meaning there were 10 senators who attended the prime ministerial selection meeting but did not make a choice."

 

Ok, let's follow the Constitution: Senators VOTE for PM when the candidate does not achieve a majority vote in the House.

A total 43 Senators did not vote "yea" nor "nay" for PM Pita. Isn't such failure unconstitutional regardless of the reasons for such failure? The Constitution does not provide directly nor indirectly any latitude for a Senator to fail to vote. Any excuse is irrelevant.

As such, 43 "missing" Senatorial votes should NOT be included in the total vote with House votes to determine majority for PM. Such interpretation is consistent for ANY citizen who fails to vote in the National election, regardless of the excuse. One does not add missing citizen votes to determine party candidates for the House. 

In fact I believe there was a situation (at least initially) wherein Thai citizens living in Australia did vote by early absentee ballot that their vote in the 2019 election wasn't counted. While the votes were received timely by the Thai embassy, the embassy did not timely deliver the votes to the EC and thus, uncounted.

[eisfeld]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

"there were 43 senators who abstained from voting last Thursday, meaning there were 10 senators who attended the prime ministerial selection meeting but did not make a choice."

 

Ok, let's follow the Constitution: Senators VOTE for PM when the candidate does not achieve a majority vote in the House.

A total 43 Senators did not vote "yea" nor "nay" for PM Pita. Isn't such failure unconstitutional regardless of the reasons for such failure? The Constitution does not provide directly nor indirectly any latitude for a Senator to fail to vote. Any excuse is irrelevant.

As such, 43 "missing" Senatorial votes should NOT be included in the total vote with House votes to determine majority for PM. Such interpretation is consistent for ANY citizen who fails to vote in the National election, regardless of the excuse. One does not add missing citizen votes to determine party candidates for the House. 

In fact I believe there was a situation (at least initially) wherein Thai citizens living in Australia did vote by early absentee ballot that their vote in the 2019 election wasn't counted. While the votes were received timely by the Thai embassy, the embassy did not timely deliver the votes to the EC and thus, uncounted.

One can list a lot of SHOULDs. But unfortunately that's not how the system was designed. As it is right now an abstain or noshow is effectively a "no". But even if that were changed I think you'd find that the majority of senators who abstained or didn't show up will suddenly vote "no". They just didn't want to make it explicit for whatever reasons.

[Kalasin Jo]

2 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

I admire their resolve... however, it is, as the saying goes, "a day late and a dollar short"... Thai people failed to pay attention (in the moment when it matter) when the Junta's constitution was drafted and put in front of the monarchy for acceptance, that it was designed to keep military control over Thai politics and it's people for the foreseeable future.

The draft of the current constitution was also put to a plebiscite. The vote, by a fairly narrow margin, was in favour, something which no doubt will be wheeled out by the dinosaurs and elite. But not only was that margin narrow but the voter turn out was very low. So indeed the Thai people failed to pay attention to this.

[Sydebolle]

Another little land mine in the military-drafted constitution. Maybe have a look at countries withOUT a constitution but a proper set of laws which is also enforced without exception, bribes or endings .......... 

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, Kalasin Jo said:

The draft of the current constitution was also put to a plebiscite. The vote, by a fairly narrow margin, was in favour, something which no doubt will be wheeled out by the dinosaurs and elite. But not only was that margin narrow but the voter turn out was very low. So indeed the Thai people failed to pay attention to this.

If you actually read the relevant sections of the current Thai Constitution (or indeed any other sections) its complexity of expression is such as to be practically incomprehensible. So it's not surprising that the few Thai citizens who voted in the relevant plebiscite a few years ago ended up approving it (just).

 

Nor is its complexity anything other than typical of Thai laws. Allows appointed judges maximum leeway to interpret things as may be convenient to them and their buddies at any particular moment.

[spidermike007]

Section 272, intending to revoke the Senate’s right to co-elect the prime minister was a desperado move, by a heinous, highly toxic army administration. They knew they were despised, and they knew they would lose badly, in a fair election. So, they were going for a CCP, North Korea, Saudi style steal and essentially saying the will of the people means nothing.

 

Anything that can be done to put these rabid, out of control power and money mongers out of power would help the nation.

[Mr Meeseeks]

3 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

I admire their resolve... however, it is, as the saying goes, "a day late and a dollar short"... Thai people failed to pay attention (in the moment when it matter) when the Junta's constitution was drafted and put in front of the monarchy for acceptance, that it was designed to keep military control over Thai politics and it's people for the foreseeable future.

Correct. 

[sambum]

5 hours ago, DjSilver said:

Well, everyone already knows that the senate and every law that the dictator Prayut changed or implemented are illegal. The true law is what it was after his takeover.

"The true law is what it was after his takeover.

 

Do you not mean "The true law is (what it should be) after his departure?

[sambum]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

If you actually read the relevant sections of the current Thai Constitution (or indeed any other sections) its complexity of expression is such as to be practically incomprehensible. So it's not surprising that the few Thai citizens who voted in the relevant plebiscite a few years ago ended up approving it (just).

 

Nor is its complexity anything other than typical of Thai laws. Allows appointed judges maximum leeway to interpret things as may be convenient to them and their buddies at any particular moment.

"Allows appointed  judges and Immigration Officers maximum leeway to interpret things as may be convenient to them and their buddies at any particular moment." But in the case of Immigration Officers, there are some fairly straightforward guidelines laid down by the Chief Immigration Officer which some of them choose to ignore, or as you say interpret as may be convenient to them- depending on their particular mood that day!!!

 

 

[sambum]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

One can list a lot of SHOULDs. But unfortunately that's not how the system was designed. As it is right now an abstain or noshow is effectively a "no". But even if that were changed I think you'd find that the majority of senators who abstained or didn't show up will suddenly vote "no". They just didn't want to make it explicit for whatever reasons.

In the UK it's called an "each way bet".

[ibjoe]

I got this Alert communication from USA Department of State :

 

Location: Throughout Thailand

 

Event:  The U.S. Mission in Thailand is monitoring reports of possible demonstrations nationwide.  Although violence is not expected, even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate into violence.  Avoid areas of demonstrations, and exercise caution if in the vicinity of any large gatherings, protests, or demonstrations.

 

Actions to Take:

• Monitor local media and our Embassy website for updates, and check your email for further alerts;
• Avoid demonstrations and large gatherings;
• Review personal security plans;
• Remain aware of surroundings;
• Follow the instructions of local authorities.

 

Assistance:

• U.S. Embassy Bangkok, Thailand
  Telephone: +66 2 205 4049
  +66 2 205 4000 (after hours)
  Email: [email protected]
  American Citizens Services

 

• U.S. Consulate General Chiang Mai, Thailand (serving U.S. citizens in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Kamphaengphet, Lampang, Lamphun, Mae Hong Son, Nan, Petchabun, Phayao, Phichit, Phitsanulok, Phrae, Sukhothai, Tak, and Uttaradit provinces)
  Telephone: +66 053 107 700
  +66 2 205 4000 (after hours)
  Email: [email protected]

 

• State Department – Consular Affairs
  888-407-4747 or 202-501-4444

 

• Thailand Country Information

 

• Enroll in Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts.

 

• Follow us on Facebook and Twitter

[Billybaroo]

14 hours ago, OneZero said:

Remember 19 May 2010 the government crackdown after lengthy protests in Lumpini Park.  Tires burning outside my condo on Rama IV rd.

  I was there in May 92' by sheer coincidence. I was returning back to the States from climbing in Nepal. I had never been to Thailand other than to transit. I took the train into Hua Lamphong. The military was point rifles at the cars. I had cameras on me after I stowed my climbing gear at the station. Some Aussie guy convinced me to go the Democratic Monument at about 10P rather than the night train to Koh Samui. The rest is history, and on film. I was at Lumphini on May 20, 2010. So, I just photographed the carnage left.  and May 2010. Tough to compare, but 92' protests and the military response to them was unforgettable. 

[spidermike007]

14 hours ago, ibjoe said:

I got this Alert communication from USA Department of State :

 

Location: Throughout Thailand

 

Event:  The U.S. Mission in Thailand is monitoring reports of possible demonstrations nationwide.  Although violence is not expected, even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate into violence.  Avoid areas of demonstrations, and exercise caution if in the vicinity of any large gatherings, protests, or demonstrations.

 

Actions to Take:

• Monitor local media and our Embassy website for updates, and check your email for further alerts;
• Avoid demonstrations and large gatherings;
• Review personal security plans;
• Remain aware of surroundings;
• Follow the instructions of local authorities.

 

Assistance:

• U.S. Embassy Bangkok, Thailand
  Telephone: +66 2 205 4049
  +66 2 205 4000 (after hours)
  Email: [email protected]
  American Citizens Services

 

• U.S. Consulate General Chiang Mai, Thailand (serving U.S. citizens in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Kamphaengphet, Lampang, Lamphun, Mae Hong Son, Nan, Petchabun, Phayao, Phichit, Phitsanulok, Phrae, Sukhothai, Tak, and Uttaradit provinces)
  Telephone: +66 053 107 700
  +66 2 205 4000 (after hours)
  Email: [email protected]

 

• State Department – Consular Affairs
  888-407-4747 or 202-501-4444

 

• Thailand Country Information

 

• Enroll in Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts.

 

• Follow us on Facebook and Twitter

If the senate ends up denying the will of the people, all bets are off. There will be mayhem. The people are tired of the power games and the army, the EC, the charter courts, and this administration have all lost any credibility, that they may have once had.