Denied entry.

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, paulikens said:

I am actually waiting now to be flown back to Penang

If you fancy a very nice holiday you could go Penang to Langkawi then enter Thailand via the boat over to Koh Lipe…

 

Warning you might never look at Phuket the same way again after visiting either Langkawi or Koh Lipe ????

 

[Dancealot]

After reading this I'm staying put in country. A valid tourist visa can get you detained.

 

Hang in there Paulikens!

[sallecc]

31 minutes ago, paulikens said:

Well I presume I will be getting a denial stamp as that's what's happened.  I don't know yet as I haven't had my passport back( I'm actually still in the detention room, I'm supposed to fly back tomorrow to penang) but i already had a form saying thats what it is, a denial of entry. 

Question for those who know a thing or two about visa agents (and lawyers) who could assist in a case like this: Is it too late for him to give a call to one of these and let them arrange a 'special service' (for a special price)? He is still at the airport and will be there until tomorrow... One user here mentioned that his friends got out of a similar pickle for 15k, I think.

[hydraides]

35 minutes ago, paulikens said:

two and a half years. but i was on a nonB for a year and a half of that.   Also before you say that's why you got denied.  my question was never why,  but just how long before i should try to get back in?

Yes immigration probably think you are still working now......were you a teacher before with a work permit?

 

I would wait at least a MONTH in another country, even better if you go back to your original country. Spend a month in Bali. You will have no trouble getting in. 

 

This will or should show that you don't currently still have a job in Thailand.

 

Then catch a flight bali > penang and enter Thailand by road. 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by hydraides

[bignok]

48 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

If you fancy a very nice holiday you could go Penang to Langkawi then enter Thailand via the boat over to Koh Lipe…

 

Warning you might never look at Phuket the same way again after visiting either Langkawi or Koh Lipe ????

 

Good idea

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You may not like it but they did it and it is all a bit too late now to be pointing out your legal interpretation of the IO actions. IOs have discretion, their job is not to dissuade legitimate tourists from visiting so why would they do that to a genuine tourist?

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If a police officer arrested you, stating it was for having dirty shoes, but wrote up a charge sheet that accused you of possession of a banned substance, would you consider that lawful exercise of their discretion? What the airport official did in this case is precisely analogous, and they did so without caring one way or another what the effect might be on what they consider "genuine" tourists. They were simply upset that some consular officials take a different view of what constitutes a "genuine" tourist than they do. They are not supposed to do this, regardless of what immigration officials in many other countries are given the power to do.

[CartagenaWarlock]

5 hours ago, paulikens said:

Ok the details are....  I got a tourist visa in Penang but when i got to phuket airport i was still denied entry.  they claimed that because i had already had 5 months here. that i wasn't any tourist anymore.  so couldn't come in as a tourist.   And was living here according to them even though they had no evidence of that.    So, As it's a "minor offence"  (in other words the immigration gave me a trumped up charge.)   There was no overstay involved,  Would I be able to come back fairly quick?  maybe 3 months?

Why do you want to stay in Thailand? Is it your privilege to stay in Thailand? Are you still searching for a bride? There is no trump up charge. Every IO in the World has absolute rights to deny entry to a person if they wish. Your only course is appeal. Lodge a complaint and appeal your denial. Otherwise, you cannot do anything else. Truth is the best policy. Tell the IO why you are living in Thailand. Are you unable to survive with your meagre income in your home country or still looking for a bride or in search of more orgies? Be specific and may be IOs will be sympathetic to you and let you in. Or bribe the IO.

Edited July 27, 2023 by CartagenaWarlock

[Pattaya57]

23 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If a police officer arrested you, stating it was for having dirty shoes, but wrote up a charge sheet that accused you of possession of a banned substance, would you consider that lawful exercise of their discretion? What the airport official did in this case is precisely analogous, and they did so without caring one way or another what the effect might be on what they consider "genuine" tourists. They were simply upset that some consular officials take a different view of what constitutes a "genuine" tourist than they do. They are not supposed to do this, regardless of what immigration officials in many other countries are given the power to do.

Why do you keep going on about what you think should happen. Guy obviously lives in Thailand for years while now on tourist visa and visa exempt entries. Bad luck for the OP but immigration did what they are employed to do, sniff out non-genuine tourists

 

Ask the OP "do you live in Thailand". If he says yes, IO have done their job

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Pattaya57

[bignok]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Why do you keep going on about what should happen. Guy obviously lives in Thailand for years while now on tourist visa and visa exempt entries. Bad luck for the OP but immigration did what they are employed to do, sniff out non-genuine tourists

Why was he given a visa to start with? He paid for it. They should refund the visa and flight costs

[Pattaya57]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

Why was he given a visa to start with? He paid for it. They should refund the visa and flight costs

I agree on the visa cost. Faulty product

[CartagenaWarlock]

Just now, bignok said:

Why was he given a visa to start with? He paid for it. They should refund the visa and flight costs

A visa is never a guarantee for entry in any country. Maybe you should learn more about visa and what it is.

[swerve]

I heard of something similar happening to a Brit last weekend at Phuket airport.  Brit was coming from KL and hoping for visa exemption entry.  I don't know his exact history. He was denied entry, detained overnight at HKT (Phuket airport), and sent back to KL the next day. Phuket airport might be playing some kind of hardball.  

[BritTim]

18 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Why do you keep going on about what you think should happen. Guy obviously lives in Thailand for years while now on tourist visa and visa exempt entries. Bad luck for the OP but immigration did what they are employed to do, sniff out non-genuine tourists

A police officer harassing someone for having dirty shoes might believe he is serving society by keeping riffraff off the streets. Sure, in a country like Thailand, they might be able to get away with doing that. I am not saying that they cannot get away with it, simply that what they are doing is not lawful. I am also advising to stay away from lawless officials and go to entry points where the law is followed.

 

21 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Ask the OP "do you live in Thailand". If he says yes, IO have done their job

The IO has done their job when they stamp you in, or deny you entry subject to one of the legitimate reasons listed in Section 12 of the Immigration Act. You are correct that they can lie about their reasons on the denial of entry stamp, and this can probably only be combatted with the help of an immigration lawyer. That fact does not ban me from recommending to the OP what to do when confronted with rogue officials.

 

Just living in Thailand is not sufficient reason for an immigration official to deny entry with a tourist visa. It gives them a reason to be suspicious, and they might strenuously disagree with the decision of the consulate to issue you a visa. They still need a legitimate reason to deny entry, not just that they do not like stamping you in.

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, swerve said:

I heard of something similar happening to a Brit last weekend at Phuket airport.  Brit was coming from KL and hoping for visa exemption entry.  I don't know his exact history. He was denied entry, detained overnight at HKT (Phuket airport), and sent back to KL the next day. Phuket airport might be playing some kind of hardball.  

Denial of visa exempt entry is often legitimate. The official is supposed, in that case, to exercise discretion is deciding whether the arrival is a genuine tourist (or other short term visitor). That is distinct from the situation when someone enters with a visa where the qualification process and investigation has already been done by the consulate.

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, paulikens said:

two and a half years. but i was on a nonB for a year and a half of that.   Also before you say that's why you got denied.  my question was never why,  but just how long before i should try to get back in?

My friend has been spending 6 months out and 6 months in (TVs various, VEs, appropriate extensions) for 10 years with zero problems.

 

Maybe think about re-structuring your life until you gain the ability to live year round (Non-Os) without constantly trying to game the system...........it sounds like a real ******* drag.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Enoon

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, paulikens said:

Another thing i was wondering... would i then be denied entry in neighbouring countries ie vietnam, Cambodia.   because it would flag up as soon as i entered.

Not, I think, in those countries. Although very unlikely, conceivably in some others.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, sallecc said:

Question for those who know a thing or two about visa agents (and lawyers) who could assist in a case like this: Is it too late for him to give a call to one of these and let them arrange a 'special service' (for a special price)? He is still at the airport and will be there until tomorrow... One user here mentioned that his friends got out of a similar pickle for 15k, I think.

I, unfortunately, am unfamiliar with Phuket based immigration lawyers.  A good one, for a price, could almost certainly file the appeal and get this decision reversed. It is easier if you can put the officials on notice that this will happen prior to being placed in the detention room.

[Pattaya57]

30 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Just living in Thailand is not sufficient reason for an immigration official to deny entry with a tourist visa. It gives them a reason to be suspicious, and they might strenuously disagree with the decision of the consulate to issue you a visa. They still need a legitimate reason to deny entry, not just that they do not like stamping you in.

Personally I feel I've lived in Thailand in my condo for 6 years on visa exempt + extensions since I retired, so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.

 

I do spend 2 months at a time outside Thailand between visa exempts though, but definitely should get the retirement visa

 

Having said that I'd be very pissed off if I was denied entry with a valid tourist visa seeing as I've never had one before

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Pattaya57

[bignok]

46 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

A visa is never a guarantee for entry in any country. Maybe you should learn more about visa and what it is.

Sold under false pretense then.

[paulikens]

Just now, Pattaya57 said:

Personally I feel I've lived in Thailand in my condo for 6 years on visa exempt + extensions since I retired, so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.

 

I do spend 2 months at a time outside Thailand between visa exempts though, but definitely should get the retirement visa

so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.....  You say that now but maybe would be different if it actually happened to you.

[bignok]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Personally I feel I've lived in Thailand in my condo for 6 years on visa exempt + extensions since I retired, so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.

 

I do spend 2 months at a time outside Thailand between visa exempts though, but definitely should get the retirement visa

Where do u go for 2 months?

[bignok]

1 minute ago, paulikens said:

so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.....  You say that now but maybe would be different if it actually happened to you.

2 month breaks is plenty long enough.

[Pattaya57]

2 minutes ago, bignok said:

Where do u go for 2 months?

Back to Australia, travel around Queensland

[Pattaya57]

4 minutes ago, paulikens said:

so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.....  You say that now but maybe would be different if it actually happened to you.

Yeah easy to say but I'm expecting it at some point. I don't think I'd be too worried as back to Singapore and probably head up to Penang. I'm retired so no work or life stress

[bignok]

14 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Back to Australia, travel around Queensland

Good life

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

...For the future, have the phone number of an immigration lawyer in Phuket...

The complication is that there are no immigration lawyers in Phuket or elsewhere in Thailand. There may be some lawyers or law firms who claim to be and perhaps really are experiened in dealing with matters related to immigration laws and regulations.

[Dan O]

7 hours ago, hydraides said:

Once you obtain a Tourist Visa sticker in your passport.....i thought Immigration had to let you in. I've never heard this happening before

 

I know Immigration can refuse entry for a visa exempt

 

This seems very harsh.....I'm very suprised ......maybe Phuket is being overrun currently by Chinese tourists and they are trying to discourage as many people visiting as possible

Immigration has the discretion to refuse entry to anyone deemed inappropriate with or without a visa. Its written in the regs even though some believe they have to show a "valid" reason. Im not saying I agree with that position. There's usually more to most of these stories than are told by the posters.  Im sure there is in this case also. 

[bignok]

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

My friend has been spending 6 months out and 6 months in (TVs various, VEs, appropriate extensions) for 10 years with zero problems.

 

Maybe think about re-structuring your life until you gain the ability to live year round (Non-Os) without constantly trying to game the system...........it sounds like a real ******* drag.

 

I agree. 50/50 is ok. If its 80/20 its going to look wrong.

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I, unfortunately, am unfamiliar with Phuket based immigration lawyers.  A good one, for a price, could almost certainly file the appeal and get this decision reversed. It is easier if you can put the officials on notice that this will happen prior to being placed in the detention room.

The appeal would have to be filed right then and there at the point of entry with the form TM.11, having made sure not to have signed any other form or document beforehand and not signing anything afterwards. The immigration officials will try to trick the traveller into signing a form with which he acknowledges the reason for the denial.

 

TM.11 is number 8 on this list on the website of the Immigration Bureau:

https://www.immigration.go.th/en?page_id=3202

[Maestro]

Removed some off-topic post and replies to them.