Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[James Roderick]

1 hour ago, bignok said:

And we know who caused that.

I would have thought American politicians of all persuasions would be looking for reconciliation and compromise - that's apparently not the case!  

Edited August 4, 2023 by James Roderick

[earlinclaifornia]

1 hour ago, James Roderick said:

America is slowly but surely moving toward a civil war !! 

Nothing US Troops can't handle. pffft

[johnnybangkok]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your "Trump" recession was known to humans as the Covid pandemic. 

All in all, Trump added over $8 Trillion to the national debt during his 4 years in office but how do you explain the $3 Trillion added to the national debt BEFORE Covid?

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump

I'll give you a clue: tax cuts for the rich and corporations. 

[Walker88]

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your "Trump" recession was known to humans as the Covid pandemic. 

So what you're saying is that "15 now...soon to be 1": was somewhat optimistic, injecting Lysol wasn't an effective solution, UV light shined up the fatuga didn't help, and restricting the movement of PPE to Blue States (Fact) was unwise?

 

Oh, and even before Covid hit, the economy was nothing special relative to any POTUS in 60 years. The Repub tax cut, however, set in motion the greatest increase in National Debt ever, eventually hitting $7,800,000,000,000 in trump's 4 years. That equates to ~$24,000 for every man woman, and child in the US and was the cause of the subsequent inflation. That staggering amount of debt also exceeded by a substantial amount any GDP growth that happened in those trump years (before his Recession), which says ALL GROWTH was merely debt-fueled.

 

If your neighbor maxes out his credit cards buying a new Ford F-150, a new bassboat, and a barbeque pit in his backyard, he might appear flush and successful, but the mailman comes with the bill eventually. trump's GDP was that neighbor...kind of Potemkin growth.

 

Oh, equity market performance under Pres Obama dwarfed anything under trump, as did job growth under both Obama abd Biden. trump's "best economy ever" (sic) was just more of his lies and hyperbole.

 

Incidentally, despite ostensibly being the "Party of Business", no (R) POTUS ever---going all the way back to Lincoln---has NOT presided over the start of a Recession. trump was just the latest in a long line.

 

In his (poorly attended) Inauguration, trump spoke of "American Carnage". It wasn't a look at the past, but was prescient, as that carnage came under his incompetent watch.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Walker88

[LosLobo]

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your "Trump" recession was known to humans as the Covid pandemic. 

I would suggest that your Trump's political solution for the Covid pandemic, instead of a normal public health response as witnessed in most countries, was 'inhumane' and hundreds of thousands needlessly died.

 

Trump's recession was not only financial.

 

He also promoted a  recession from the truth.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

All in all, Trump added over $8 Trillion to the national debt during his 4 years in office but how do you explain the $3 Trillion added to the national debt BEFORE Covid?

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump

I'll give you a clue: tax cuts for the rich and corporations. 

It's actually worse than that. By continuing to starve the IRS of funds for enforcement, the government was deprived of revenue it was due.

[Walker88]

11 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

 

Oh, equity market performance under Pres Obama dwarfed anything under trump, as did job growth under both Obama abd Biden. trump's "best economy ever" (sic) was just more of his lies and hyperbole.

 

 

From the Bureau of Economic Analysis:

 

 

It seems his "best economy ever" is just another of trump's endless lies.

 

Even before Covid hit, the GDP Quaterly change under trump was in the bottom 30% of all Quarters since the end of WWII. AFter Covid hit, he fell into the lowest Quartile.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Walker88

[johnnybangkok]

9 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

From the Bureau of Economic Analysis:

 

 

It seems his "best economy ever" is just another of trump's endless lies.

 

Even before Covid hit, the GDP Quaterly change under trump was in the bottom 30% of all Quarters since the end of WWII. AFter Covid hit, he fell into the lowest Quartile.

From Forbes magazine - 'It is simply a fact that since World War II, Democratic presidents have seen 24.4 million more jobs created on their watch—an average of 78.6% more jobs created per year of Democratic administrations—than have Republican presidents. Ditto real GDP growth, 44% higher under Democratic presidents. On the flip side, unemployment has been 18% higher under GOP presidents.'

 

And you mentioned it before; Nine of the last 10 recessions have been under Republicans.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/?sh=a2b90d267868

[xylophone]

On 8/2/2023 at 2:40 PM, Bkk Brian said:

They are not all like this but...........................

 

 

A picture speaks a thousand words.............

[Walker88]

SC Jack Smith smartly guesstimated trump's defense and got out in front of it, by noting in the indictment that trump has a First Amendment right to lie about the election. Smith goes on to say that actions related to those lies---especially since "these claims were false, and the Defendant knew they were false" (Indictment, pg 1)---are why trump was indicted.

 

If the defense tries to pursue this, they would have to let trump take the stand, which every lawyer who has ever been retained by trump knows would be an abject disaster. trump's think skin would be prodded and poked by a prosecutor, and the result would likely be devastating and damning. trump would have to admit he lied.

 

It will be interesting to see if the defense adopts a new strategy. They can't really claim trump truly believed he won and there was fraud, because Smith has statements from Administration insiders---who will take the stand---that say trump was well aware he lost. The only defense remaining might be the insanity defense. Certainly that might be believable to many people, as trump gives many indications that his mind has gone haywire.

[BarraMarra]

14 hours ago, watthong said:

We make do with what we got, if crickety old tool, as long as it does the job. In this case kicking the orange butt out of the WH. American spirit... You no american no?

I'm English I dont understand this Post " you no american no " mmmm

[pomchop]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

SC Jack Smith smartly guesstimated trump's defense and got out in front of it, by noting in the indictment that trump has a First Amendment right to lie about the election. Smith goes on to say that actions related to those lies---especially since "these claims were false, and the Defendant knew they were false" (Indictment, pg 1)---are why trump was indicted.

 

If the defense tries to pursue this, they would have to let trump take the stand, which every lawyer who has ever been retained by trump knows would be an abject disaster. trump's think skin would be prodded and poked by a prosecutor, and the result would likely be devastating and damning. trump would have to admit he lied.

 

It will be interesting to see if the defense adopts a new strategy. They can't really claim trump truly believed he won and there was fraud, because Smith has statements from Administration insiders---who will take the stand---that say trump was well aware he lost. The only defense remaining might be the insanity defense. Certainly that might be believable to many people, as trump gives many indications that his mind has gone haywire.

I think the reality is that there is no real defense that will work in court....his best bet is to somehow bribe or intimidate a juror to get them to refuse to vote guilty in spite of a mountain of evidence...u know sorta like a mob boss or cartel...we will kill your entire family type thing...and no i would not put that kind of thing beyond trump or some of his deranged supporters.  How sad that we have come to even thinking that is possible.

[placeholder]

Here's that image again that was provided by Walker88. This time with a link:

 

https://archive.ph/wWjsP

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/opinion/sunday/democrats-economy.html

[BarraMarra]

There is a word for what Trump tried to do it's Coup. He attempted a political Coup by attempting to replace an Elected Government and its head and replace it by himself exactly the same as the current Thai government.

[Walker88]

7 minutes ago, pomchop said:

I think the reality is that there is no real defense that will work in court....his best bet is to somehow bribe or intimidate a juror to get them to refuse to vote guilty in spite of a mountain of evidence...u know sorta like a mob boss or cartel...we will kill your entire family type thing...and no i would not put that kind of thing beyond trump or some of his deranged supporters.  How sad that we have come to even thinking that is possible.

What has been trump's MO is to publish the names and addresses of people he needs to intimidate, so that is likely the case when the jurors are selected. trump's goobers will do what they did as recently as last month, when Obama's data was published...an armed goober tried to get at Obama.

 

I suspect jurors will have their names, addresses, where their kids go to school, etc., distributed, just as trump noted the name of Jack Smith's wife and Smith's address, or how his team published the names and addresses of poll workers in Georgia.

[Walker88]

21 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Here's that image again that was provided by Walker88. This time with a link:

 

https://archive.ph/wWjsP

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/opinion/sunday/democrats-economy.html

Here's more of trump's claimed 'best economy ever' lie, attributed:

 

[watthong]

34 minutes ago, pomchop said:

his best bet is to somehow bribe or intimidate a juror to get them to refuse to vote guilty in spite of a mountain of evidence...u know sorta like a mob boss or cartel...we will kill your entire family type thing...and no i would not put that kind of thing beyond trump or some of his deranged supporters.  How sad that we have come to even thinking that is possible.

Actually the pool of jury is the weakest link in our judicial system. For all the oomph and angst over choices of judges, locations etc. it only takes one juror to upset the apple cart. In a not too recent famous trial (Kittenhouse) the defense even hired a juror-whisperer to be in the courtroom. And we know how Trump gang navigates the underworld. It's like fish to the water.

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, James Roderick said:

I would have thought American politicians of all persuasions would be looking for reconciliation and compromise - that's apparently not the case!  

Some of them want justice, not "reconciliation".

[BarraMarra]

28 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

What has been trump's MO is to publish the names and addresses of people he needs to intimidate, so that is likely the case when the jurors are selected. trump's goobers will do what they did as recently as last month, when Obama's data was published...an armed goober tried to get at Obama.

 

I suspect jurors will have their names, addresses, where their kids go to school, etc., distributed, just as trump noted the name of Jack Smith's wife and Smith's address, or how his team published the names and addresses of poll workers in Georgia.

It's called Intimidation Walker.

[ozimoron]

According to YouGov/Yahoo News, 62 percent of registered voters believe Trump should not be allowed to serve as president again if he’s convicted of a serious crime. Given how closely divided the U.S. is these days, it’s very unlikely that Biden will win the election 62 percent to 38 percent, but the poll is still an indication that there are plenty of skeptical voters Trump would have to win over to prevail.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-jan-6-indictment-polls/

[candide]

4 hours ago, James Roderick said:

I would have thought American politicians of all persuasions would be looking for reconciliation and compromise - that's apparently not the case!  

A good start would be to "compromise" on who won the 2020 elections.

[BarraMarra]

As I'm not American in easy terms how can a man charged with so many offenses be even be considered as a potential President and be allowed to stand in front of thousands and proclaim other Americans are liars and cheats? I don't want to hear whataboutism or what others did in the past it's about now how can Trump do what he is doing now?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, BarraMarra said:

As I'm not American in easy terms how can a man charged with so many offenses be even be considered as a potential President and be allowed to stand in front of thousands and proclaim other Americans are liars and cheats? I don't want to hear whataboutism or what others did in the past it's about now how can Trump do what he is doing now?

Because he leads a fascist CULT and all his fans have lost the plot.

[Berkshire]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:16 AM, Berkshire said:

If we can get every Republican voter to read the indictment, then we would have an informed electorate.  Of course, most of said voters do not want to be informed.

Amazing that I said the exact same thing.....

 

[Republicans, our democracy depends on your willingness to read the Trump indictment | Opinion

The Kansas City Star Editorial Board]

[It explains, in great detail, how Trump knew from his own people that he had lost the election. And how, based on claims that even he knew to be “crazy,” he tried through various schemes to stay in power anyway.]

[Virtually all of the facts set out in the document were revealed by not just other Republicans, but by Republicans appointed and employed by Donald Trump.]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republicans-democracy-depends-willingness-read-211625273.html

 

[Neeranam]

On 8/2/2023 at 7:22 AM, Tug said:

It’s about time!hopefulley it’s televised so everyone sees the seriousness of his deeds

Alleged deeds

[James Roderick]

9 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

As I'm not American in easy terms how can a man charged with so many offenses be even be considered as a potential President and be allowed to stand in front of thousands and proclaim other Americans are liars and cheats? I don't want to hear whataboutism or what others did in the past it's about now how can Trump do what he is doing now?

Wouldn't that depend on the substance

of the charges brought against Trump ? On that note, hasn't the man already been tried and acquitted  of some of these charges by the American senate ?  It looks to me like a politically inspired  witch-hunt to remove Trump from the presidential race. If that is the case, then its backfiring because his political support increases every time new charges are brought forward.  

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by James Roderick

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, candide said:

A good start would be to "compromise" on who won the 2020 elections.

What about the 2016 elections? 

Some democrats have a short memory

[BarraMarra]

3 minutes ago, James Roderick said:

Wouldn't thar depend on the substances of the charges brought against Trump ? On that note, hasn't the man already been tried and acquitted  of some of these charges by the American senate ?  It looks to me like a politically inspired  witch-hunt to remove Trump from the presidential race. If that is the case, then its backfiring because his political support increases every time new charges are brought forward.  

 

 

He paid hush money for banging Stormy Danials true or false. then denied he even knew her He is a liar.

Edited August 4, 2023 by BarraMarra

[BarraMarra]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What about the 2016 elections? 

Some democrats have a short memory

Whataboutism again.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What about the 2016 elections? 

Some democrats have a short memory

The one where Trump lost the popular vote?