How to sell gold?

[RocketDog]

On 8/19/2023 at 4:20 PM, ChaiyaTH said:

There is no two camps at all, it is good for both. 

Of course. I was referring to replies on this thread specifically.

One camp says never buy gold except as investment other camp says.....

[RocketDog]

On 8/19/2023 at 5:15 PM, Dazinoz said:

My first bullion investment was 4 x 100oz silver bars bought from a dealer in Singapore. It was delivered to me ok. Some years later I wanted some cash so decided to sell one of the 100oz bars. Took a Thai speaking friend and we hit Wallai Road, the "silver" road in Chiang Mai. Long story short no one wanted to buy it.

 

Tried to ship back to the dealer in Singapore but only able to find one courier that would do it at an exorbitant price for insurance. (was going to ship the 4 x 100oz bars back). I ended up booking a cheap hotel and flew to Singapore, sold the silver and flew back next day. Cheaper than the cost of shipping it back.

Hence my observation about liquidity of bars and why prefer jewelry even at the extra margin cost.

Singapore has no problem with folks coming in or leaving with PMs. Other places puts you at risk and in USA your metals might be seized under the draconian 'Civil Forfeiture' laws, a real nightmare. Good that you had no trouble.

Can you imagine a sudden FX swing or currency collapse? How many people would be looking to sell bars & coins. Not a line I want to be in holding metals.

 

First metals I bought was in 1975, lots of pre-1964 USA silver dimes, quarters, half dollars 90%, silver. I still have them!

[RocketDog]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:49 PM, Acharn said:

Well, yeah, but you have to take it to a specialized enterprise to exchange it for the currency of the country you're in. In the U.S. you can go to most jewellers, or pawn shops. What you can't do with gold is take it to your neighborhood 7-11 and buy a six-pack of beer. In Thailand, and, I suppose, India, you can get a publicly announced price that is the same at every gold store and pawn shop. In most other countries you can't. Gold is not money, and it has disadvantages when used as the "backing" for money.

I guess you didn't read the whole thread. My whole point is that in Thailand you sell jewelry to any one of dozens of shops in hundreds of cities.

Metals are metals, cash is currency with no intrinsic worth whatsoever. Metals hold value for centuries, fiat currencies come and go. Fiat currency was invented do governments could spend with no backing at all to fund wars etc. Currencies 'backed' by nothing are only worth what people think they they are. Currencies not backed by anything are just cruel jokes.

They are two separate, distinctly different asset classes.

Personally I hold both along with real estate and equities.

People often state the "cost of gold" in some currency. Actually it's the other way around. Currencies are priced in gold because currencies are just paper. People has lusted for precious metals from the time they were discovered.

[RocketDog]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:25 AM, MrJ2U said:

Gold Shops need to fill out a form and will need a passport or Thai ID.

 

 

That has not been my experience. I'm sure you're correct in some places, but not all for sure. I find it impossible to believe that buying jewelry requires an ID except in a few places that I would refuse to buy from. .

 

If you give an ID of any sort when buying it is the first in a series of counterparty risks. I prefer anonymity.

[Acharn]

47 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I guess you didn't read the whole thread. My whole point is that in Thailand you sell jewelry to any one of dozens of shops in hundreds of cities.

Metals are metals, cash is currency with no intrinsic worth whatsoever. Metals hold value for centuries, fiat currencies come and go. Fiat currency was invented do governments could spend with no backing at all to fund wars etc. Currencies 'backed' by nothing are only worth what people think they they are. Currencies not backed by anything are just cruel jokes.

They are two separate, distinctly different asset classes.

Personally I hold both along with real estate and equities.

People often state the "cost of gold" in some currency. Actually it's the other way around. Currencies are priced in gold because currencies are just paper. People has lusted for precious metals from the time they were discovered.

The overall trend of the price of gold is up, but there have been times when it went down, too. Or stayed the same for long periods of time while inflation continued. I'm not preaching against buying gold, but don't think that it's going to make you a profit or protect your wealth. Gold is a commodity, like oil or wheat.

[DaveCW]

On 8/19/2023 at 7:22 AM, RocketDog said:

Uhhhhh.?

So let's say one buys gold jewelry as a hedge against monetary collapse or gross swings.

Let's say they bought locally, did so without any form of ID asked or given, which is very common and very important to remaining anonymous.

Then let's say they decide to change it into local currency because cutting/shaving coins or bars is just  silly to buy eggs.

They may get more or less currency than they paid for it but still enough to buy their eggs at an international exchange rate for that currency VS gold.

Why is that a mistake in your estimate?

'Seems' like good planning to me.

I agree that owning gold for investment gains, especially paper gold, is unwise. But for some it's just planning for changes that are apparently  inevitable. I call that prudent.

To the OP:

A huge advantage of living here is buying and selling gold without any identification or records. That is impossible in most countries, including USA. I love it!

You pay the shop a margin when you buy or sell, so in that sense you will always take a loss when converting cash to gold to cash. Taking it to the same shop as you bought it means they might give you some preference but at least it's easier.

Two things are for sure though: gold is not colored paper, and everybody everywhere recognizes the value, portability, and security of precious metals.

It is an asset class not to be ignored.

 

Totally agree - I've been staking gold and silver for many years - and at the moment are many percentage points up - but, that's not the reason for staking - the global financial system is in turmoil with no normal price discovery in any of the markets (Big thanks to the central banks and MMT) and getting worse, so as mainly as a hedge I sleep very well at night and I expect the metals to do very well in the coming year or so.

 

I've also been buying here in Thailand, love the very low premiums, ease of buying and selling. Buying silver In the UK one has to pay 20% tax on top of spot and premiums, here its only 7% so I already consider that a great saving (for the future) and have begun buying.

 

Although silver is not very popular in Thailand as locals prefer gold, I believe that may change when/if the prices rise.

[RocketDog]

Just now, DaveCW said:

Totally agree - I've been staking gold and silver for many years - and at the moment are many percentage points up - but, that's not the reason for staking - the global financial system is in turmoil with no normal price discovery in any of the markets (Big thanks to the central banks and MMT) and getting worse, so as mainly as a hedge I sleep very well at night and I expect the metals to do very well in the coming year or so.

 

I've also been buying here in Thailand, love the very low premiums, ease of buying and selling. Buying silver In the UK one has to pay 20% tax on top of spot and premiums, here its only 7% so I already consider that a great saving (for the future) and have begun buying.

 

Although silver is not very popular in Thailand as locals prefer gold, I believe that may change when/if the prices rise.

Not to be pedantic, 'stacking' is the term you're looking for. Staking is what we do to vampires. ????

Yep, I've been doing it for years myself and have no regrets.

It's appalling that governments all over the world have for decades tried to dissuade people from using metals as the robust asset class they truly are. But of course metals and tangible assets are the only true protection from fiat currencies, which governments love.

 

Stacking currency only gives you something to burn for heat when the economic lights go out; and they will.

 

You get it or you don't.

[DaveCW]

On 8/19/2023 at 12:49 PM, Acharn said:

Well, yeah, but you have to take it to a specialized enterprise to exchange it for the currency of the country you're in. In the U.S. you can go to most jewellers, or pawn shops. What you can't do with gold is take it to your neighborhood 7-11 and buy a six-pack of beer. In Thailand, and, I suppose, India, you can get a publicly announced price that is the same at every gold store and pawn shop. In most other countries you can't. Gold is not money, and it has disadvantages when used as the "backing" for money.

Actually the precious metals are real money, Fiat money (your paper notes) is government-issued currency that is not backed by a physical commodity but merely by the stability of an issuing government. All it takes is for that stability to evaporate and so does your fiat currency, as many countries in both ancient and modern times will attest to. But the metals will still have a physical value. 

[indyo]

in my opinion it's better trade a gold ETF for investment purpose instead of peace of metal

[Acharn]

On 8/29/2023 at 5:58 PM, DaveCW said:

Actually the precious metals are real money, Fiat money (your paper notes) is government-issued currency that is not backed by a physical commodity but merely by the stability of an issuing government. All it takes is for that stability to evaporate and so does your fiat currency, as many countries in both ancient and modern times will attest to. But the metals will still have a physical value. 

I don't understand how a commodity "backs" a currency. So there's inflation and I take my currency to the banks and ask to exchange it for the commodity. They give me the commodity. Now what? What do I do with it? Perhaps back in the 1890s you could take gold dust to a grocery and exchange it for food. I don't think so, but perhaps. I think you had to take the gold dust to an assay office (government office) and exchange it for currency.

By the way, you say "many" nations have had their currencies "evaporate." I won't ask you to name them, but how many in the last twenty years? The last fifty? The last two hundred?

Edited September 8, 2023 by Acharn