Man kills shopkeeper in US state of California after disparaging Pride flag

[Social Media]

 

A US shop owner was shot dead after a dispute over a Pride flag displayed outside her business, police say.

Laura Ann Carleton, 66, was found with a bullet wound at her Mag Pi shop in Cedar Glen, California, on Friday.

A suspect - who fled the scene on foot - was killed by police when found nearby, allegedly still armed.

Ms Carleton was described as a "wonderful friend" by Hollywood director Paul Feig, who posted an image of them together.

The suspect made "disparaging remarks" about the rainbow flag before shooting the victim, police said. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

Officers then located the suspect, armed with a handgun, the San Bernardino County Sheriff-Coroner Department said.

 

At this point, "a lethal force encounter occurred and the suspect was pronounced deceased".

Feig - known for films such as Bridesmaids as well as the Freaks and Geeks TV series - said his friend had been shot after confronting the suspect for ripping down the flag.

 

FULL STORY

[JonnyF]

Very sad. RIP Mrs Carlton.

 

Unfortunately LGBTQ++ issues have become very politicized and quite vitriolic on both sides of the debate, while also offending various religious groups. I'm sure Mrs Carlton understood this, therefore her decision to firstly to fly the flag and secondly to confront the individual who objected to it was very brave, but perhaps somewhat foolhardy in the current climate. I certainly wouldn't encourage my elderly mother to do so.

 

Strange that there are no details about the killer. No name, no photo. I wonder if his identity doesn't fit the narrative? 

[Tug]

45 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Very sad. RIP Mrs Carlton.

 

Unfortunately LGBTQ++ issues have become very politicized and quite vitriolic on both sides of the debate, while also offending various religious groups. I'm sure Mrs Carlton understood this, therefore her decision to firstly to fly the flag and secondly to confront the individual who objected to it was very brave, but perhaps somewhat foolhardy in the current climate. I certainly wouldn't encourage my elderly mother to do so.

 

Strange that there are no details about the killer. No name, no photo. I wonder if his identity doesn't fit the narrative? 

And who pray tell are whipping up this frenzy of hate towards this tiny minority of people humm……weak politicians who need an easy target because they have no agenda except divisive rhetoric sad rip madam my condolences to her friends and family 

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Tug said:

And who pray tell are whipping up this frenzy of hate towards this tiny minority of people humm……weak politicians who need an easy target because they have no agenda except divisive rhetoric sad rip madam my condolences to her friends and family 

Hyperbole. I don't see any frenzy of hate. Just a few isolated incidents. 

 

You may be aware but homosexuality is not promoted by various religions (Christianity, Islam etc.). This is not a new thing, it is thousands of years old. A quick trip to many Muslim countries would clarify this for you very quickly. So if you wish to show your support of LGBTQ++ in such an open, flagrant way then you run the risk of offending certain groups. With the rise of multicultural societies such as the US and the UK, members of these groups may well be living next door to you.

 

Now, before you go all Strawman on me, I am not suggesting she deserved it. Far from it, I think it is a terrible incident and condolences to her family. I am merely stating that people should be aware that by flying their Pride flag or any other flag with potentially divisive political/religious connotations they run the risk (rightly or wrongly) of offending certain people. If they know that and choose to proceed anyway, in the knowledge that they will be offending certain groups then that is their personal choice. In this case she flew the flag in the knowledge that some people would be offended and then confronted the person who was offended. Very brave. RIP.

[Tug]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Hyperbole. I don't see any frenzy of hate. Just a few isolated incidents. 

 

You may be aware but homosexuality is not promoted by various religions (Christianity, Islam etc.). This is not a new thing, it is thousands of years old. A quick trip to many Muslim countries would clarify this for you very quickly. So if you wish to show your support of LGBTQ++ in such an open, flagrant way then you run the risk of offending certain groups. With the rise of multicultural societies such as the US and the UK, members of these groups may well be living next door to you.

 

Now, before you go all Strawman on me, I am not suggesting she deserved it. Far from it, I think it is a terrible incident and condolences to her family. I am merely stating that people should be aware that by flying their Pride flag or any other flag with potentially divisive political/religious connotations they run the risk (rightly or wrongly) of offending certain people. If they know that and choose to proceed anyway, in the knowledge that they will be offending certain groups then that is their personal choice. In this case she flew the flag in the knowledge that some people would be offended and then confronted the person who was offended. Very brave. RIP.

You aren’t paying attention then most folks see an extreme attacks on the lgbq minority community 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Very sad. RIP Mrs Carlton.

 

Unfortunately LGBTQ++ issues have become very politicized and quite vitriolic on both sides of the debate, while also offending various religious groups. I'm sure Mrs Carlton understood this, therefore her decision to firstly to fly the flag and secondly to confront the individual who objected to it was very brave, but perhaps somewhat foolhardy in the current climate. I certainly wouldn't encourage my elderly mother to do so.

 

Strange that there are no details about the killer. No name, no photo. I wonder if his identity doesn't fit the narrative? 

Victim blaming, obfuscation and conspiracy nonsense all in one post.

 

 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Victim blaming, obfuscation and conspiracy nonsense all in one post.

 

 

Lazy. So lazy...

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Hyperbole. I don't see any frenzy of hate. Just a few isolated incidents. 

 

You may be aware but homosexuality is not promoted by various religions (Christianity, Islam etc.). This is not a new thing, it is thousands of years old. A quick trip to many Muslim countries would clarify this for you very quickly. So if you wish to show your support of LGBTQ++ in such an open, flagrant way then you run the risk of offending certain groups. With the rise of multicultural societies such as the US and the UK, members of these groups may well be living next door to you.

 

Now, before you go all Strawman on me, I am not suggesting she deserved it. Far from it, I think it is a terrible incident and condolences to her family. I am merely stating that people should be aware that by flying their Pride flag or any other flag with potentially divisive political/religious connotations they run the risk (rightly or wrongly) of offending certain people. If they know that and choose to proceed anyway, in the knowledge that they will be offending certain groups then that is their personal choice. In this case she flew the flag in the knowledge that some people would be offended and then confronted the person who was offended. Very brave. RIP.

Do you have evidence that the killer was a Muslim and if not then why are you banging on about Muslims and Muslim countries?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Lazy. So lazy...

Not at all, you have engaged in victim blaming, you have engaged on obfuscation and you have alleged a conspiracy.

 

Your post is several paragraphs long, so you did put a bit of effort into doom, therefore not at all lazy.

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have evidence that the killer was a Muslim and if not then why are you banging on about Muslims and Muslim countries?

 

 

I never stated he was a Muslim. Could have been a Christian. Could have been an escaped convict. Could have been anyone who doesn't like trans ideology. They haven't released any details of the killer. Often this happens when their identity is a bit, ummm, awkward shall we say.

 

If he was a MAGA hat wearing redneck in dungarees, driving a Cadillac Deville draped in the confederate flag I dare say we'd have heard all about it by now. 

 

Either way, whether he was Muslim or not is irrelevant. My point was that if you wish to display a flag that is offensive to millions of people, some of which may be extremists, it's possible that a confrontation will ensue. 

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not at all, you have engaged in victim blaming, you have engaged on obfuscation and you have alleged a conspiracy.

 

Your post is several paragraphs long, so you did put a bit of effort into doom, therefore not at all lazy.

Your reply was lazy, not my post.

 

I didn't blame the victim. That's another strawman. I didn't blame her any more than I would blame someone who went to an Antifa rally with a MAGA hat on and a stars and stripes cape who got beaten up for shouting "I love Trump" from a loudspeaker. But I would comment that their actions were unwise.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

I never stated he was a Muslim. Could have been a Christian. Could have been an escaped convict. Could have been anyone who doesn't like trans ideology. They haven't released any details of the killer. Often this happens when their identity is a bit, ummm, awkward shall we say.

 

If he was a MAGA hat wearing redneck in dungarees, driving a Cadillac Deville draped in the confederate flag I dare say we'd have heard all about it by now. 

 

Either way, whether he was Muslim or not is irrelevant. My point was that if you wish to display a flag that is offensive to millions of people, some of which may be extremists, it's possible that a confrontation will ensue. 

So why bang on about Muslims and Muslim countries?

 

You chose to insert these into the discussion.

One might be forgiven for thinking  you were engaging in baseless pejorative.

 

 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So why bang on about Muslims and Muslim countries?

It was an example of a group that might be offended. I also mentioned Christians but you seem OK with that. No mention of it.

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

You chose to insert these into the discussion.

Correct. They are examples of groups that she would have known she was offending.

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

One might be forgiven for thinking  you were engaging in baseless pejorative.

 

 

Only if you had an agenda.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It was an example of a group that might be offended. I also mentioned Christians but you seem OK with that. No mention of it.

 

Correct. They are examples of groups that she would have known she was offending.

 

Only if you had an agenda.

“Only if you had an agenda.”

Sweet irony lives.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I didn't blame the victim. That's another strawman. 

 

16 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Either way, whether he was Muslim or not is irrelevant. My point was that if you wish to display a flag that is offensive to millions of people, some of which may be extremists, it's possible that a confrontation will ensue. 

Oh but you did. 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Your reply was lazy, not my post.

 

I didn't blame the victim. That's another strawman. I didn't blame her any more than I would blame someone who went to an Antifa rally with a MAGA hat on and a stars and stripes cape who got beaten up for shouting "I love Trump" from a loudspeaker. But I would comment that their actions were unwise.

Firstly you absolutely did engage in victim blaming, I suggest you read up what victim blaming is and how it presents.

 

Now you clai

 to have spotted a strawman while immediately following your declared discovery with the wild false equivalence between a business owner displaying a flag at their own business premises and some Trump supporter displaying their MAGA credentials at an Antifa rally.

 

What a mess.

[FruitPudding]

49 minutes ago, Tug said:

You aren’t paying attention then most folks see an extreme attacks on the lgbq minority community 

Let's not jump to conclusions: when a Christian school was massacred by an LGBTQ woman who even wrote a manifesto, the official stance was, "It's not clear at this time what the motive was." 

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

Oh but you did. 

Oh no I didn't.

[jak2002003]

26 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I never stated he was a Muslim. Could have been a Christian. Could have been an escaped convict. Could have been anyone who doesn't like trans ideology. They haven't released any details of the killer. Often this happens when their identity is a bit, ummm, awkward shall we say.

 

If he was a MAGA hat wearing redneck in dungarees, driving a Cadillac Deville draped in the confederate flag I dare say we'd have heard all about it by now. 

 

Either way, whether he was Muslim or not is irrelevant. My point was that if you wish to display a flag that is offensive to millions of people, some of which may be extremists, it's possible that a confrontation will ensue. 

What... A flag like the American flag for instance.? 

 

 

[JonnyF]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Firstly you absolutely did engage in victim blaming, I suggest you read up what victim blaming is and how it presents.

 I know what it is. I even predicted I would be accused of it in post 4 of this thread when I wrote the following...

 

 

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Now you clai

 to have spotted a strawman while immediately following your declared discovery with the wild false equivalence between a business owner displaying a flag at their own business premises and some Trump supporter displaying their MAGA credentials at an Antifa rally.

 

What a mess.

No false equivalence. Both are freedom of speech/expression that have the potential for a less than desirable reaction. The only difference is that you would support one reaction and not the other.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Let's not jump to conclusions: when a Christian school was massacred by an LGBTQ woman who even wrote a manifesto, the official stance was, "It's not clear at this time what the motive was." 

It’s not clear how that relates to the topic under discussion.

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, jak2002003 said:

What... A flag like the American flag for instance.? 

 

 

Not sure about the American flag. Maybe it wouldn't go down well in certain areas or with certain demographics. I doubt Megan Rapinoe or Colin Kapernick would appreciate it. 

 

But you can certainly be attacked for displaying the British flag in Britain. 

[FruitPudding]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not clear how that relates to the topic under discussion.

Just making the point that we shouldn't always jump to conclusions.

 

Two people had an argument and unfortunately it resulted badly. 

 

There's a lot of conjecture about bigoted attacks on minorities 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 I know what it is. I even predicted I would be accused of it in post 4 of this thread when I wrote the following...

 

 

No false equivalence. Both are freedom of speech/expression that have the potential for a less than desirable reaction. The only difference is that you would support one reaction and not the other.

The difference is the killing of the shop keeper for displaying a pride flag actually happened.

 

Your dreamed up Antifa parade false equivalence did not.

[Bkk Brian]

Laura, also known as Lauri by those she knew and loved, has been described as a "pillar" in the community and an "immovable force in her values for equality, love, and justice."

Laura and her husband Bort were described as being "pivotal" in helping establish the Free Store for the Mountain Provisions Coop, which "provided free food and supplies for four months after the blizzard.

"Lauri put her whole heart into keeping it going as long as we could," they continued in the Instagram post. "Pay an act of kindness forward in her honor. Our community needs as much love as we can get right now."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/beloved-shop-owner-shot-dead-30748528

 

Then we posters victim blaming because of a senseless killing. Pretty sick stuff

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Not sure about the American flag. Maybe it wouldn't go down well in certain areas or with certain demographics. I doubt Megan Rapinoe or Colin Kapernick would appreciate it. 

 

But you can certainly be attacked for displaying the British flag in Britain. 

What in earth have ridiculous claims about flying British flags in the UK got to do with the topic under discussion?

[FruitPudding]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

What in earth have ridiculous claims about flying British flags in the UK got to do with the topic under discussion?

The dispute in question was over a flag.

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The difference is the killing of the shop keeper for displaying a pride flag actually happened.

 

Your dreamed up Antifa parade false equivalence did not.

Oh, you needed a real example?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Just making the point that we shouldn't always jump to conclusions.

 

Two people had an argument and unfortunately it resulted badly. 

 

There's a lot of conjecture about bigoted attacks on minorities 

There’s a fair bit of bigoted conjecture  about a particular minority group being a possible source of attacks.

 

And not from this side of the room. 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What in earth have ridiculous claims about flying British flags in the UK got to do with the topic under discussion?

It demonstrates how something as innocuous as a flag can lead to violence.

 

I would have thought that was obvious.