Certification that the unit is free from any liabilities / Condo sale

[zappalot]

What to do if a JPM does not issue the Certification that a unit is free from any liabilities?

 

From the Condo law:

The Manager shall issue the Letter of Certification that the unit is free from any liabilities in accordance with paragraph two to the joint owner within fifteen days from the date on which the request has been received provided that the joint owner has fully made the payment of the debt arising out of the expenses in accordance with Section 18.

 

If the ones in the office/JPM do not care?

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Don't buy, rent.

[Woof999]

7 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Don't buy, rent.

I've spent around 5 million baht on rent in the ~8 years I've been here. That's starting to get close to 40% of the value of my current home.

 

Rent is the safer / easier / less hassle option, but it's often not the cheapest, whether a Thai wife robs you of the house or not.

[zappalot]

Yeah, but I did not ask neither for rent nor for buy advice ????

[scubascuba3]

You can't buy or sell without the letter, the land office want to see it

[Peterw42]

6 hours ago, zappalot said:

What to do if a JPM does not issue the Certification that a unit is free from any liabilities?

As above, no letter means no sale.

Possibly doing you a favor, as the seller may have an outstanding debt with the condo juristic or the condo isn't in the foreign quota etc.

Otherwise, The seller could possibly force the issue by having a lawyer make a formal request

[zappalot]

I know what it means.

 

So a lawyer seems to be the best option, right?

 

An additional complaint to the landdepartment about the JPM does not care about doing her duty as stated by the condo act?

[tomazbodner]

Maybe you could walk to juristic office, tell them that you have a contract signed with the seller, and that this is outstanding. Ask for details on outstanding amounts and confront the seller. Normally it is seller's responsibility and at least in my case, Juristic issued the letter within 10 minutes. They have a system that tells them outstanding amount, in most cases.

If you haven't signed the contract yet, then try to ask, and if they refuse to answer, give 30 days to seller to get document or sale is off. If seller can't get document, it would likely mean that there's significant outstanding amount - which 10% deposit should cover - so if they still can't get letter, maybe it's best to consider some other place.

 

If you are living in that place now, you'd probably know if utilities or maintenance fees weren't paid as they'd cut your supplies by now. And if not, and juristic sounds uncooperative, you likely would not enjoy having to deal with them later if you buy there.

 

Don't think lawyer would achieve much, if anything.

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, zappalot said:

I know what it means.

 

So a lawyer seems to be the best option, right?

 

An additional complaint to the landdepartment about the JPM does not care about doing her duty as stated by the condo act?

You've not said why the office won't issue the letter? is there debt? you've not said 

 

[Mike Teavee]

17 hours ago, Woof999 said:

I've spent around 5 million baht on rent in the ~8 years I've been here. That's starting to get close to 40% of the value of my current home.

 

Rent is the safer / easier / less hassle option, but it's often not the cheapest, whether a Thai wife robs you of the house or not.

Not quite that simple as  the money you’ve spent on the house could have been invested & generate more income than you pay in Rent.

 

For me the only reason to buy is if you want a place that you can do out exactly as you want it. 

[Celsius]

 

20 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Not quite that simple as  the money you’ve spent on the house could have been invested & generate more income than you pay in Rent.

 

For me the only reason to buy is if you want a place that you can do out exactly as you want it. 

 

Correct. It is utterly stupid to buy as most condos are paid in cash by foreign mugs meaning the bank does not pay yoy to live there while you use your money to invest back home.

 

10 years ago I came to Thailand with 100,000 Canadian pesos and a 75%  mortgaged condo in Toronto. Tenants paid off my loan while I was renting in Thailand. If I used that money to buy a place here I would be stuck with depreciating property and no savings. Instead I have close to million bux.

 

That being said your last point is correct, but since most of us are esentially tourists with yearly extensions you can't really do exactly as you please. 

[geisha]

19 hours ago, zappalot said:

What to do if a JPM does not issue the Certification that a unit is free from any liabilities?

 

From the Condo law:

The Manager shall issue the Letter of Certification that the unit is free from any liabilities in accordance with paragraph two to the joint owner within fifteen days from the date on which the request has been received provided that the joint owner has fully made the payment of the debt arising out of the expenses in accordance with Section 18.

 

If the ones in the office/JPM do not care?

Why won’t they issue it ? Strange. Must be a reason.

[zappalot]

No outstanding debit. Everything is paid 100%. Only reason is they do not like the nose of the seller...

 

But there must be a way to force them ????

[tomazbodner]

12 hours ago, zappalot said:

No outstanding debit. Everything is paid 100%. Only reason is they do not like the nose of the seller...

 

But there must be a way to force them ????

Go to Juristic, tell them it's their lucky day! The seller is selling that to you and will be G.O.N.E! All they need to do is give you that letter and POOOOF, seller will disappear just like that.

[Henryford]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:22 AM, scubascuba3 said:

You can't buy or sell without the letter, the land office want to see it

I thought the condo office letter just stated that there were no common fees outstanding. Could there be other liens against the property? How would the condo office know?

[scubascuba3]

12 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I thought the condo office letter just stated that there were no common fees outstanding. Could there be other liens against the property? How would the condo office know?

It's debts owed to the office so common fees, supplementary fees, that type of thing, if you are talking about mortgages and things like that the Land office will know about that

[zappalot]

7 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Go to Juristic, tell them it's their lucky day! The seller is selling that to you and will be G.O.N.E! All they need to do is give you that letter and POOOOF, seller will disappear just like that.

As this is Thailand this logical approach did not do anything. Excuses about coming back tmr pls, again and again...

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, zappalot said:

As this is Thailand this logical approach did not do anything. Excuses about coming back tmr pls, again and again...

Try the being polite and friendly routine, not the difficult <deleted> routine

[zappalot]

Ok, lets make this more interesting: seller exposed a fraudulent scheme run by the JPM/management company, JPM received a prison sentence of one year plus fine and head of management company received a huge fine and due to this JPM was even removed from her position only to be replaced by the next scammer who is just angry to the seller that he exposed criminal action.

 

So, friendly approach will not help, no matter what, office has order not to hand out the paper.
They prefer to go to prison before they would do what they should do...

[scubascuba3]

23 minutes ago, zappalot said:

Ok, lets make this more interesting: seller exposed a fraudulent scheme run by the JPM/management company, JPM received a prison sentence of one year plus fine and head of management company received a huge fine and due to this JPM was even removed from her position only to be replaced by the next scammer who is just angry to the seller that he exposed criminal action.

 

So, friendly approach will not help, no matter what, office has order not to hand out the paper.
They prefer to go to prison before they would do what they should do...

Yes makes more sense now, so find a lawyer or first find some falang committee members

[zappalot]

oh, there were 2 falang elected for committee but since they have connections to the land department the election was declared as invalid for no real reason.

 

so lawyer is the only option...

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, zappalot said:

oh, there were 2 falang elected for committee but since they have connections to the land department the election was declared as invalid for no real reason.

 

so lawyer is the only option...

Seems so, needs to be the seller, taking the JPM to court for blocking the letter for no valid reason, then list the real reasons. Once they receive the threat they'll probably do the debt free letter 

[donx]

On 8/24/2023 at 5:36 AM, zappalot said:

Ok, lets make this more interesting: seller exposed a fraudulent scheme run by the JPM/management company, JPM received a prison sentence of one year plus fine and head of management company received a huge fine and due to this JPM was even removed from her position only to be replaced by the next scammer who is just angry to the seller that he exposed criminal action.

 

So, friendly approach will not help, no matter what, office has order not to hand out the paper.
They prefer to go to prison before they would do what they should do...

And you're still interested in buying into this condo development knowing all this?

 

I wouldn't want to have to deal with a JPM/management company like this unless you are getting a significantly reduced price. Even then, do you really want to have scammers running the place?

[Callaway9]

On 8/24/2023 at 4:36 PM, zappalot said:

Ok, lets make this more interesting: seller exposed a fraudulent scheme run by the JPM/management company, JPM received a prison sentence of one year plus fine and head of management company received a huge fine and due to this JPM was even removed from her position only to be replaced by the next scammer who is just angry to the seller that he exposed criminal action.

 

So, friendly approach will not help, no matter what, office has order not to hand out the paper.
They prefer to go to prison before they would do what they should do...

Exactly our situation. Years if corrupt JPM who happened to also be the developer and owned units. Finally got them out, now they're trying to sell units but can't prove they paid common area fees so no debt free certificate. New JPM is good but no financial records from the past so up to the seller to prove they paid.