QNUPS and Financial advisor

[MrBanks]

Hi, this is  aimed mainly at UK citizens, but all knowledge on the subject will be greatly appreciated.

As many Brits. will be aware, if you are married to a lady who is not a UK citizen, if you die before her and you are leaving her your estate, apart from the £325,000 tax free allowance, the rest of the estate will be subject to 40% inheritance tax.

Which is grossly unfair, because if she were a UK citizen there would be zero tax.

There are (as far as I know) 3 ways around it:

1. She can become a UK citizen.

in my case, that is not going to happen, we don’t want to go and live in the UK for the 5 years required.

2. I can become non-domicile, however, that is not a very good solution because HMRC will not give a final decision as to your domicile until after you die, obviously then it is too late to do anything, if they decide that you are still UK domicile.

3. Move your wealth into a QNUPS, in an offshore jurisdiction.

 

It is number 3 that I come here seeking knowledge about:

 I am finding it very hard to find out any reviews, recommendations or comparisons of the various QNUPS providers, or the financial advisor company that suggested this to me.

 

Do any of you have any “real” knowledge of QNUPS providers?

Does anyone have any good or bad reviews about any particular QNUPS provider?

 

The provider that has been recommended to me is Overseas Trust and Pension, Guernsey, but apart from finding that they are registered with the Guernsey equivalent of the FCA, I cannot find any independent reviews of them.

 

The financial advisor is IIMG Ltd, again I cannot find much out about them, apart from the fact I have a friend, who unbeknown to me has dealt with them for several years. When I mentioned them he gave me a very good review.

 

Any help, sharing of knowledge, based on fact, will be very helpful.

 

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, MrBanks said:

is number 3 that I come here seeking knowledge about:

 I am finding it very hard to find out any reviews, recommendations or comparisons of the various QNUPS providers, or the financial advisor company that suggested this to me.

Don't do it the financial advisor company are crooks.

 

You friend is probably a crook as well.

 

Better to pay the tax after death than lose everything while you are still alive.

Edited September 6, 2023 by BritManToo

[MrBanks]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't do it the financial advisor company are crooks.

 

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't do it the financial advisor company are crooks.

Hi, thanks for your input, what do you base your opinion of IIMG Ltd, being crooks?

[Liverpool Lou]

14 minutes ago, MrBanks said:

The financial advisor is IIMG Ltd,

I do not want to disparage IIMG but if that is a Thai/Thailand-based "company" using foreign "advisors" from offices here in Thailand, I'd be very careful before letting go of your money.  It is not easy getting that sort of company registered with the SEC in Thailand (and they all have to be in order to be operating legally).   You can check whether they are authorised on the Thai SEC's website and it would also be interesting to see whether the "advisor" has a work permit (he won't have).  Their website doesn't even show that they have an office here...never a good sign.   If you're happy with all that, go ahead.

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, MrBanks said:

 

Hi, thanks for your input, what do you base your opinion of IIMG Ltd, being crooks?

First sign = foreigner giving financial advice in Thailand, it's a job 100% reserved for Thai citizens.

 

Second sign = anyone wanting to move assets to Jersey/Guernsey/IOM/etc. Once there you lose any chance of legal recourse.

 

Normal scam is foreign FA working illegally in Thailand using an offshore company for shelter, and maybe a management company in you home country. Once dividing responsibility between 3 countries, none of their legal systems will want to protect you. Which is why crooks are so keen to use offshore bases.

 

Keep your assets in your home country where it's relatively safe.

Edited September 6, 2023 by BritManToo

[CharlieKo]

Any Pension provider will keep half of the Pension pot. So you only get paid out half over the time span they pay out the pension. 

[Liverpool Lou]

10 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

Any Pension provider will keep half of the Pension pot. So you only get paid out half over the time span they pay out the pension. 

Nonsense, unless it is an out and out scam, not backed by a regulated provider.  They are paid commission (obviously) out of the amount invested but they do not take 50%.   There are sensible reasons to be wary of dealing with them, though.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[LaosLover]

I am a former financial planner and endorse the above statement.

 

Anything they can do, you can do yourself, with less or no fees. It just takes a little bit of boring homework. 

 

I don't know about this product, but Guernsey offerings tend to be steeply in the over-promise/under-deliver category. 

 

The first person you need to talk to is a tax accountant. He can tell you if their tax savings are for real and worth the fee. Short version if the answer is yes: only if your assets are over 2 million.

 

Ask yourself: Do private banks like Coutte's sell these services? They like fees and have wealthy clients. And yet -they do not.

[CharlieKo]

21 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, unless it is an out and out scam, not backed by a regulated provider.  They are paid commission (obviously) out of the amount invested but they do not take 50%.   There are sensible reasons to be wary of dealing with them, though.

That is exactly what private pension plans are, a scam!

[LaosLover]

1 hour ago, MrBanks said:

 

2. I can become non-domicile, however, that is not a very good solution because HMRC will not give a final decision as to your domicile until after you die, obviously then it is too late to do anything, if they decide that you are still UK domicile.

 

 

This is why you need to talk to a tax accountant.

 

You can get an answer on your domicile designation, and you can get it in writing. I have done this myself.

 

The laws just aren't that complicated. You may not like their decision, but it will hardly be a mystery or made on a capricious whim.

 

If this "they only decide your domicile once you're in a box" was part of a sales pitch, RUN!

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

That is exactly what private pension plans are, a scam!

As an over-generalisation your comment has no merit without something to back it up.   You already got the commission aspect ridiculously wrong.  Private pension plans, per se, are not "scams"

[Foxx]

(1) On the question of domicile, you can ask a KC (King's Counsel) for a legal option, and HMRC will respect this.  Not cheap though.  I was quoted GBP 20,000.

 

(2) There are other ways of moving wealth outside your estate.  Trusts are the obvious way to do this.  Typically work best if you're going to survive 7 years to minimise IHT.  For the 7 years you can also take out insurance which will cover any IHT.

 

(3) If the priority is to provide income for the partner, a joint life annuity will do the job (though there will be no cash to leave as a lump sum to anyone else).

 

It sounds like the "financial adviser" is simply trying to sell a product that will pay a lot of commission, rather than looking into the options that suit the OP's personal circumstances.

[Expat68]

I have a QROPS and it is based with the said company you are talking about in Guernsey. I do not want to bore you with things that have been an on going issue for several years. They take on financial advisors (or did) who are not scrutinized (to my cost). It will be coming towards a final outcome in April where no doubt it will be in the news. I can't say too much because it is with lawyers

[SportRider]

Try this guy

 

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/roywalkerwealth.com

[jor]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:21 AM, BritManToo said:

 

Second sign = anyone wanting to move assets to Jersey/Guernsey/IOM/etc. Once there you lose any chance of legal recourse.

 

This statement, if true, makes me quite nervous. 

 

Can you give some detail? 

[topt]

9 hours ago, jor said:

This statement, if true, makes me quite nervous. 

 

Can you give some detail? 

Channel Isles and IOM have their own financial safeguards which are different to the UK ones. Also I would suggest the legal recourse is stronger there than say Cyprus/Malta et al.....

 

@Expat68 seems to be proving that above.

 

A number of offshore banks like Lloyds International are based in IOM or Channel Islands so not sure exactly what @BritManToo is saying.

Yes of course you don't get the same protections as in the UK but that does not really help you.......

 

 

[topt]

so from here - https://www.iexpats.com/qnups/

Quote

Which countries provide QNUPS pensions?

Many countries provide QNUPS, but three of the leading financial centres are Malta, Guernsey, and the Isle of Man, thanks to their strict regulation and beneficial tax regimes.

But expats should not pick a QNUPS based on geography. It’s better to look at the costs and benefits with a suitably qualified whole-of-the-market IFA who will match a QNUPS to your personal and financial goals.

Looks like I may have been hasty in denigrating Malta before.........

Another article I read mentioned Singapore.

[PPGuy]

The Fry Group has had previous mentions concerning providing advice on pension matters. They are UK based but do have an office in Singapore. May be worth a contact.

As ever, caveat emptor should be to the fore.

[barry1312]

So a lot of answers there some helpful some not so much, in reality the best way forward is to get professional advice from a UK regulated specialist, a qnups may or may not be the best way forward.

I work in the financial industry and if your interested pm me and  we can have a chat about your circumstances then I can put you in touch with a UK regulated specialist who is best suited to advise you. 

These services will be fee based but you will be given an upfront figure before any work is done

[wordchild]

On 9/7/2023 at 1:19 AM, Expat68 said:

I have a QROPS and it is based with the said company you are talking about in Guernsey. I do not want to bore you with things that have been an on going issue for several years. They take on financial advisors (or did) who are not scrutinized (to my cost). It will be coming towards a final outcome in April where no doubt it will be in the news. I can't say too much because it is with lawyers

This says it all.

Sounds like this poster has had an horrendous time with one Thai based Financial Advisor.

 

It is a simple rule, often repeated on this forum; Just stay clear of any Thai (or non-Uk) based FA.

 

If you are a UK citizen with eg a UK pension, find yourself a UK based , and regulated , IFA.

 

It is also the case with the other specialist advisers you will certainly need eg lawyers and accountants. Using 2 or 3 different advisers may be more expensive but from my experience its better to use real experts, and importantly chose these people yourself and dont let some IFA chose them. It is important they work directly for you. Different specialist advisers are also a good way to keep a check on the advice you are getting from the IFA.

 

Importantly they should all be  UK BASED with a UK registered office;that is not the same as an English guy who happens to base himself in Bangkok or Dubai but has connections/contacts back to the UK.

 

As one poster says above most of this is not that complicated. Many years ago I set up my own QROP (as they were then called),  I did most of the work myself, but had a small amount of (useful) help from a UK IFA , to whom i paid a reasonable fee.

Plus I obtained  the ( much more important!)  tax advice, from my existing UK tax advisors. I also obtained independent legal advice on the structure from my UK lawyers. 

 

I kept the structure very simple ie no "offshore bonds" or other nonsense. Complicated structures are beloved by expat IFA,s because they provide both a way to lock you into them and also trouser more fees from your assets. 

 

If anyone tries  to push you into something such as an Offshore Bond, walk away, they are likely not acting in your best interests. There are better and safer structures you can use depending on what you need to achieve.

 

 

Anyone who promotes themselves as a FA specializing in Expats should be an immediate 'Red Flag" warning.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by wordchild

[KannikaP]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:21 AM, BritManToo said:

Normal scam is foreign FA working illegally in Thailand using an offshore company for shelter, and maybe a management company in you home country. Once dividing responsibility between 3 countries, none of their legal systems will want to protect you. Which is why crooks are so keen to use offshore bases.

Been there and done it. Wish I could name the tw...t in Pattaya who did me out of Bht 3M.

If a guy is so clever with financial investments, why is he trotting around telling others what to do. He should be loaded if his recommendations are any good.

[wordchild]

Ever since the UK tightened up its regulation of Financial Advice and Fees the industry has gone through a much needed  clean up. Much of the detritus that used to inhabit the industry has left it. Unfortunately some of the "characters" have moved into the "offshore"   advisory market where they can continue with practices now outlawed in the UK , eg hidden charges, inappropriate products with ludicrous fees attached etc etc.

 

There are some really excellent IFA,s in the UK who work hard and provide a needed and valuable service and it is really worthwhile putting some effort in to  identify one to work with.

 

As an aside i would suggest that , even when working with a UK IFA, it is important to make clear, at the outset, verbally and in writing, that you want the type of advice given and the fee structure, to be inline with UK regulation and best practice. Though obviously the advice given needs to be tailored to your status as an expat. This can be something of a grey area for an expat seeking advice from an onshore IFA and you should discuss at the outset. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by wordchild

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Been there and done it. Wish I could name the tw...t in Pattaya who did me out of Bht 3M.

If a guy is so clever with financial investments, why is he trotting around telling others what to do. He should be loaded if his recommendations are any good.

Same for me in CM, but not as much cash lost.

Ran the expats club and round table, ran the poppy day collection.

Covered up by this forum that removed any negative posts about him as he was a forum sponsor.

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, wordchild said:

There are some really excellent IFA,s in the UK who work hard and provide a needed and valuable service and it is really worthwhile putting some effort in to  identify one to work with.

Never met one, they were all crooks in the UK as well.

But at least the FSC made them pay me 30k pounds in compensation for a particular bit of naughtiness.

[Griffo63]

The OP might want to check this from HMRC Inheritance Tax Manual. In simple terms a non-domicile spouse gets a £325k exemption and a further £325k nil band allowance  - so  £650k in total is free of IHT without having to make any election to be domiciled in the UK. 

 

 

If the election is completed then all of the assets are exempt from IHT but have ongoing conditions attached 

 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm13047

[persimmon]

AFAIK money in a pension is not part of one`s estate and so not liable to IHT . How much tax the recipient ends up paying if the pension is withdrawn depends on various factors and is more complicated if the beneficiary is Thai ( will they pay tax on an inheritance ? ).