Outrage over Abbas's antisemitic speech on Jews and Holocaust

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A debating maven you're not.

 

You still haven't answered if Brazil's decimation of the rain forest is Nazi.

Is the man on the moon a nazi? Do you think your question was clever?

 

On topic, are Israel's illegal settlements genocide?

Edited September 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

weak as dishwater to offer a laughing emoji as a reply while not having the guts to say whether Israel's illegal settlements are genocide or not.

[ozimoron]

At a conference hosted by Haaretz on Wednesday, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said that “the village of Hawara needs to be wiped out. I think that the State of Israel needs to do that—not, God forbid, private individuals.”

 

https://politicalviolenceataglance.org/2023/03/06/is-israel-on-the-precipice-of-genocide/

[ozimoron]

“For Israel, the settlements serve two related purposes. One is to guarantee that the occupied territory will remain under Israeli control in perpetuity. The second purpose is to ensure that there will never be a genuine Palestinian state,” Lynk told the Human Rights Council in Geneva. 

“These are exactly the reasons why the international community agreed to prohibit the practice of settler implantation when it created the Fourth Geneva Convention in 1949 and the Rome Statute in 1998.” 

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/07/occupied-palestinian-territory-israeli-settlements-should-be-classified-war

[ozimoron]

The Genocide of the Palestinian People:
An International Law and Human Rights Perspective

While there has been recent criticism of those taking the position that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, there is a long history of human rights scholarship and legal analysis that supports the assertion. Prominent scholars of the international law crime of genocide and human rights authorities take the position that Israel’s policies toward the Palestinian people could constitute a form of genocide. Those policies range from the 1948 mass killing and displacement of Palestinians to a half-century of military occupation and, correspondingly, the discriminatory legal regime governing Palestinians, repeated military assaults on Gaza, and official Israeli statements expressly favoring the elimination of Palestinians.

 

https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2016/10/Background on the term genocide in Israel Palestine Context.pdf

[Nick Carter icp]

^ Four days spend trying to turn the discussion around to genocide so that he could post all his links , kept asking numerous people numerous times whether they thought it was genocide or not .

   No one at all replied and so he just posted the links anyway ????

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

^ Four days spend trying to turn the discussion around to genocide so that he could post all his links , kept asking numerous people numerous times whether they thought it was genocide or not .

   No one at all replied and so he just posted the links anyway ????

Yes it's an odd case study in something but I don't think there is an English word for it.

Perhaps there is in Brazilian Portuguese. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jingthing

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

^ Four days spend trying to turn the discussion around to genocide so that he could post all his links , kept asking numerous people numerous times whether they thought it was genocide or not .

   No one at all replied and so he just posted the links anyway ????

The illegal settlements are germane to the Palestinian Israeli conflict and indeed is the single most contentious issue, possibly after shooting kids. In case it escaped you the topic was about whether Israel could be fairly described as a nazi state or not.  I made the case that it is a nazi state because of the settlements. This was made clear in the OP. Several people put their hand up to defend Israel but not one would address the central question as to whether the illegal settlements were genocide.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes it's an odd case study in something but I don't there is an English word for it.

Perhaps there is in Brazilian Portuguese. 

Past your bed time.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[Nick Carter icp]

Genocide 

 

"he deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

"a campaign of genocide"

 

 

 

Palestinian population growth :

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Genocide 

 

"he deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

"a campaign of genocide"

That graph would be a lot steeper if the dead kids were still around.

 

So, finally, you stick your head up and are trying to establish that the illegal settlements are not genocide. What are they?

 

The links I gave provided evidence that at least one Israeli cabinet member was calling for the extermination of Palestinians in one of the settlements. There's your definition of a nazi state right there.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The illegal settlements are germane to the Palestinian Israeli conflict and indeed is the single most contentious issue, possibly after shooting kids. In case it escaped you the topic was about whether Israel could be fairly described as a nazi state or not.  I made the case that it is a nazi state because of the settlements. This was made clear in the OP. Several people put their hand up to defend Israel but not one would address the central question as to whether the illegal settlements were genocide.

The actual topic is very different..

See the OP.

 

....

German and Israeli officials have condemned Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas for comments he made about Jews and the Nazi Holocaust in a speech.

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Genocide 

 

"he deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

"a campaign of genocide"

 

 

 

Palestinian population growth :

 

 

 

Israel is seen as a very advanced modern nation with some of the best educated people and most sophisticated technology including medical and military in the world.

If genocide of Palestinian Arabs is the policy of the Israeli government then wowza they sure are crap at it!

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jingthing

[Nick Carter icp]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

In case it escaped you the topic was about whether Israel could be fairly described as a nazi state or not.  I made the case that it is a nazi state because of the settlements. 

No, this thread isn't about whether Israel could be described as a Nazi state or not , This thread is about Abbas making an anti Semitic speech .

   You yourself and you only are making comparisons between Nazi Germany and Israel .

   Abbas didn't even make the comparison , YOU did .

In a thread about an anti semetic speech , you are in the thread comparing Israel to Nazi Germany 

[ozimoron]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Israel is seen as a very advanced modern nation with some of the best educated people and most sophisticated technology including medical and military in the world.

If genocide of Palestinian Arabs is the policy of the Israeli government then wowza they sure are crap at it!

 

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

No, this thread isn't about whether Israel could be described as a Nazi state or not , This thread is about Abbas making an anti Semitic speech .

   You yourself and you only are making comparisons between Nazi Germany and Israel .

   Abbas didn't even make the comparison , YOU did .

In a thread about an anti semetic speech , you are in the thread comparing Israel to Nazi Germany 

The discussion is not off topic and since you have both engaged in strong attacks on me for several pages over this very topic it's disingenuous trying to come here now and claim it's off topic just because you don't want to answer the hard questions. Nor have you complained previously that it was off topic or, report it presumably. Nor have several pages of refusals to answer a direct question been removed as off topic.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The case is not off topic and since you have both engaged in strong attacks on me for several pages over this very topic it's disingenuous trying to come here now and claim it's off topic just because you don't want to answer the hard questions.

This story is about Abbas making an anti sematic speech 

Abbas didn't compare Israel to Nazi Germany .

You did that .

You are trying to convince people that Israel are Neo Nazis

You have been doing that , no one else .

BTW, you are the only person to mention "off=topic" as well 

    

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

This story is about Abbas making an anti sematic speech 

Abbas didn't compare Israel to Nazi Germany .

You did that .

You are trying to convince people that Israel are Neo Nazis

You have been doing that , no one else .

BTW, you are the only person to mention "off=topic" as well 

    

What happened to mentioning that is was off topic 10 pages ago? Forgive me for thinking this is just your excuse du minute.

 

While we're still discussing whether Israel is a nazi state or not, are the illegal settlements genocide or not? You've wasted pages of posts dodging this question with feeble irrelevant excuses like Aborigines which really are off topic. Now you want to claim the moral high ground and complain that I'm off topic.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

What happened to mentioning that is was off topic 10 pages ago? Forgive me for thinking this is just your excuse du minute.

 

While we're still discussing whether Israel is a nazi state or not, are the illegal settlements genocide or not?

I only mentioned it when you incorrectly made a claim as to what this thread is about and I just thought that I would correct you .

   You make a false claim that this thread is about Abbas comparing  Israel to Nazi Germany .

   I then stepped in to tell you what this thread is really about 

I did feel that you needed correcting and apologies for not telling you what this thread was about ten pages ago .

  If someone posts another thread, I will let you know what the thread is about a bit sooner next time 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I only mentioned it when you incorrectly made a claim as to what this thread is about and I just thought that I would correct you .

   You make a false claim that this thread is about Abbas comparing  Israel to Nazi Germany .

   I then stepped in to tell you what this thread is really about 

I did feel that you needed correcting and apologies for not telling you what this thread was about ten pages ago .

  If someone posts another thread, I will let you know what the thread is about a bit sooner next time 

Answer the question. Are illegal Israeli settlements genocide?

 

Your reluctance to answer that question says a lot about your prejudices.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[MrMojoRisin]

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

What I am saying is that White Australians need to think about their own history before being critical of others in regards to stealing other peoples land .

   Was the stolen generation of Aborigine Children , where White Australians took Aborigine Children away from their families en masse , was that genocide ?

    

The important word here is history. What’s done is done and can’t be undone. Israel, on the other hand is still acting like a colonial power in a post colonial world.

 

 

[MrMojoRisin]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

A debating maven you're not.

 

You still haven't answered if Brazil's decimation of the rain forest is Nazi.

China’s treatment of the Uyghurs is heading in that direction (just like Israel’s treatment of Palestinians).

 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

As I said , from your link 

 

"Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish Israelis,"

Having rights in law does not mean that they get them in reality.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Genocide 

 

"he deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

"a campaign of genocide"

 

 

 

Palestinian population growth :

 

 

 

Indeed, and what chance do you give them when they outnumber the Jewish Israelis of changing Israeli policies towards Palestinians?

I give them zero chance of that.

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I was just pointing out that an Australian , whose ancestors have lived in Australia for 300 odd years and who have treated the local Aborigines appallingly over the years is being critical of Israelis , whose ancestors have lived on the land for 3000 years and telling them they have no right live on the land .

   Palestinian Israelis seem to be faring much better than Australian Aborigines .

   He needs to access the situation, before being critical of others 

This is true. There are oppressed peoples all over the world. The Palestinians get a lot of press, but they are not alone.

 

Here's a fun fact for those who have never been to Palestine:

 

A lot of Israelis are descended from Jews who emigrated from Arab countries. They are often dark skinned and don't speak English.

 

A lot of Arabs in East Jerusalem are light skinned and have blue eyes. Because the Crusaders killed all the Arabs when they captured Jerusalem, but then surrendered when Saladin captured Jerusalem and converted to Islam. Their descendents now live in East Jerusalem. 

 

In fact, many Palestinians are the descendants of Hebrews living in Palestine at the time of the Arab conquest. Over time, they converted to Islam, and spoke Arabic (a related language to the  Aramaic spoken in Israel in the first millennium).

Edited September 22, 2023 by Danderman123

[Jingthing]

57 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

This is true. There are oppressed peoples all over the world. The Palestinians get a lot of press, but they are not alone.

 

Here's a fun fact for those who have never been to Palestine:

 

A lot of Israelis are descended from Jews who emigrated from Arab countries. They are often dark skinned and don't speak English.

 

A lot of Arabs in East Jerusalem are light skinned and have blue eyes. Because the Crusaders killed all the Arabs when they captured Jerusalem, but then surrendered when Saladin captured Jerusalem and converted to Islam. Their descendents now live in East Jerusalem. 

 

In fact, many Palestinians are the descendants of Hebrews living in Palestine at the time of the Arab conquest. Over time, they converted to Islam, and spoke Arabic (a related language to the  Aramaic spoken in Israel in the first millennium).

Yes.

Westerners especially Americans often think Jews are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi. Not in Israel. 

As far as genetic history -- all major Jewish ethnicities, Palestinian Arabs, and Italians are all linked. Not that unusual for "close" peoples to be in conflict.

The very concept of Palestinian Arab as a separate identity is an artificially created modern one.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

Westerners especially Americans often think Jews are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi. Not in Israel. 

As far as genetic history -- all major Jewish ethnicities, Palestinian Arabs, and Italians are all linked. Not that unusual for "close" peoples to be in conflict.

The very concept of Palestinian Arab as a separate identity is an artificially created modern one.

The very concept of ethnicity as a separate identity is artificially created.

Edited September 22, 2023 by ozimoron

[Jingthing]

Just now, ozimoron said:

The very concept of ethnicity as a separate identity is an artificially created one.

It's complicated.

 

https://www.livescience.com/difference-between-race-ethnicity.html

 

 

[Danderman123]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

Westerners especially Americans often think Jews are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi. Not in Israel. 

As far as genetic history -- all major Jewish ethnicities, Palestinian Arabs, and Italians are all linked. Not that unusual for "close" peoples to be in conflict.

The very concept of Palestinian Arab as a separate identity is an artificially created modern one.

A Palestnian Arab is just an Arabised individual who happens to live in the former Palestian mandate and is not Jewish.

 

Back in the day, the land was partitioned into various sheikdoms and conquered by the Ottomans. The British got it, and carved out into Palestine to distinguish it from Egypt, the Jordanian kingdom, and French occupied Syria.

 

So, just as Israel is a modern construct, so is Palestine. The difference is that Palestine as a distinct region including Israel, has existed as a concept for 2000 years, just not as a country. Like "Ukraine" is not the same as "the Ukraine", one is a country, the other is a region.

[Danderman123]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

Westerners especially Americans often think Jews are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi. Not in Israel. 

As far as genetic history -- all major Jewish ethnicities, Palestinian Arabs, and Italians are all linked. Not that unusual for "close" peoples to be in conflict.

The very concept of Palestinian Arab as a separate identity is an artificially created modern one.

The Italians have a relatively small Semitic genetic component, compared to Arabs and Israelis.

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's complicated.

 

https://www.livescience.com/difference-between-race-ethnicity.html

 

 

There's obvious physical difference but anything which people consider an aspect of social difference (I use the term is the broadest sense) is a psychological concept. Some might even say a pathological concept.