Thai food’s bold blend of flavours: A culinary delight with a fatal bite

[kwilco]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:04 AM, arick said:

Most bacteria is not found in meat it's found in recooked vegetables on the street food in Thailand for example the bacteria is not fully  in cooked in the middle of the stalk of the vegetable

Rubbish! You don't understand how bacteria settle and thrive - You've read something somewhere about bacteria on vegetables and famously got it wrong.

most bacteria are on the surface of uncooked meat where they thrive.

As for vegetables themselves, they aren't inherently sterile, but they can indeed harbour bacteria from various sources. Here are some of the main culprits:

Soil and water: Vegetables grow in soil and are often irrigated with water, both of which can contain naturally occurring bacteria like E. coli and Salmonella.

Manure: Some farmers use manure as fertilizer, which can introduce harmful bacteria into the soil and onto the vegetables.

Animals: Wild animals and insects can come into contact with vegetables during growth, potentially leaving behind bacteria like Listeria.

Handling and processing: During harvesting, transport, and processing, vegetables can come in contact with contaminated surfaces, equipment, or human hands, introducing bacteria like Staphylococcus aureus.

 

So wash vegetables, but don't be paranoid.  Washing with clean water significantly reduces bacterial levels on vegetables. it removes soil, dirt, debris, and so a good portion of surface bacteria. Peeling some vegetables can also further reduce bacteria.

 

 Some veggies are more prone to bacterial contamination than others:

Leafy greens: Due to the large surface area and tendency to trap dirt, leafy greens like spinach (watch out Pop-eye!) and lettuce require a good washing.

Bean sprouts are grown in warm, humid conditions, which are ideal for bacterial growth. You should wash or cook/blanche before consuming them.

Pre-cut vegetables are convenient, but have more exposed surface area, making them prone to contamination during processing. 

 

As I said, ta large proportion of people actually contaminate themselves - e.g. hygiene in the kitchen, including washing hands and utensils frequently, can prevent the spread of bacteria fand hand to mouth contamination is very common - that is why smoking is banned in kitchens in most countries.

[Negita43]

I am not disputing what the article says (nor agreeing with it).

However, there are things we ingest that are reckoned to be just as harmful

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/alcohol

But I still enjoy my glass(es) of wine - I started drinking wine (never touch beer) at 25 and I'm now over 80 and my last blood test showed the liver is holding up well.

As the old saying goes - All things in moderation

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Negita43 said:

I am not disputing what the article says (nor agreeing with it).

However, there are things we ingest that are reckoned to be just as harmful

THat's a rather facile response - firstly the effects of alcohol etc are calculated by numbers in millions - you are just one - but when it comes to parasitic infections it is a different health issue that can be avoided - you are making a false dichotomy.

[Negita43]

59 minutes ago, kwilco said:

THat's a rather facile response - firstly the effects of alcohol etc are calculated by numbers in millions - you are just one - but when it comes to parasitic infections it is a different health issue that can be avoided - you are making a false dichotomy.

You may think so but what is the end result of both?

[kwilco]

35 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

You may think so but what is the end result of both?

 

THe results of this parasitic infection have been explained on this post, i.e. cholangiocarcinoma, or bile duct cancer, 

THe results of drinking are tangential to this thread - hence the false dichotomy.

Are you trying to suggest that one glass of alcohol would give you liver cancer? THe normal result of drinking is sclerosis amongst other things - I can't understand why anyone should think justifying drinking in anyway mitigates the problem assiciated with parasites - unless of course they are are suffering from another effect of alcohol - brain damage.

Infections by flukes are usually treated with a drug called triclabendazole, this doesn't work with alcohol as the parasite is on the outside

 

 

Edited January 24 by kwilco

[arick]

19 hours ago, kwilco said:

Rubbish! You don't understand how bacteria settle and thrive - You've read something somewhere about bacteria on vegetables and famously got it wrong.

most bacteria are on the surface of uncooked meat where they thrive.

As for vegetables themselves, they aren't inherently sterile, but they can indeed harbour bacteria from various sources. Here are some of the main culprits:

Soil and water: Vegetables grow in soil and are often irrigated with water, both of which can contain naturally occurring bacteria like E. coli and Salmonella.

Manure: Some farmers use manure as fertilizer, which can introduce harmful bacteria into the soil and onto the vegetables.

Animals: Wild animals and insects can come into contact with vegetables during growth, potentially leaving behind bacteria like Listeria.

Handling and processing: During harvesting, transport, and processing, vegetables can come in contact with contaminated surfaces, equipment, or human hands, introducing bacteria like Staphylococcus aureus.

 

So wash vegetables, but don't be paranoid.  Washing with clean water significantly reduces bacterial levels on vegetables. it removes soil, dirt, debris, and so a good portion of surface bacteria. Peeling some vegetables can also further reduce bacteria.

 

 Some veggies are more prone to bacterial contamination than others:

Leafy greens: Due to the large surface area and tendency to trap dirt, leafy greens like spinach (watch out Pop-eye!) and lettuce require a good washing.

Bean sprouts are grown in warm, humid conditions, which are ideal for bacterial growth. You should wash or cook/blanche before consuming them.

Pre-cut vegetables are convenient, but have more exposed surface area, making them prone to contamination during processing. 

 

As I said, ta large proportion of people actually contaminate themselves - e.g. hygiene in the kitchen, including washing hands and utensils frequently, can prevent the spread of bacteria fand hand to mouth contamination is very common - that is why smoking is banned in kitchens in most countries.

So much for my biology doctrine and so much for the research that they published in 2014

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, arick said:

So much for my biology doctrine and so much for the research that they published in 2014

"Dictrine"?? - There you go...ill-informed and out of touch.

Claims of qualifications are worthless, it is the information you post that counts.

Edited January 25 by kwilco

[arick]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

"Dictrine"?? - There you go...ill-informed and out of touch.

Claims of qualifications are worthless, it is the information you post that counts.

It would help that you could spell  

[kwilco]

26 minutes ago, arick said:

It would help that you could spell  

"spelling" - that is the best you can do? What has that got to do with the discussion - if your ideas are wrong, correct spelling doesn't make them any more correct

 

 

Edited January 25 by kwilco

[kwilco]

PS - was that a spelling mistake or a freudian slip? How about telling what your  "doctrine"  is, then?

[Jimjim1]

On 1/24/2024 at 4:02 PM, kwilco said:

Manure: Some farmers use manure as fertilizer, which can introduce harmful bacteria into the soil and onto the vegetables.

I maybe wrong but I get the impression from this one statement that you are decrying the use of manure in one’s garden, I have used well rotted horse and cattle manure in my organic garden for the last 70 years trenched in and covered with no health problems ever and just to clarify a point or two, the French being the “ French “ and to a lesser extent the Spanish used human waste for millennia and in some areas still do and that was where the problems of E-coli etc came about.

The use of animal manure is documented further back than the Romans and deemed a natural source of fertiliser long before the introduction of CANCER CAUSING CHEMICAL NITRATES, Natural animal manures promote the natural nitrates produced by all plants thereby naturally promoting growth, taste, and vitamins, and is still used by farmers to this day when they go about there business in the spring with a muck spreader on the fields that they use to get milk and fatten their cattle for human consumption.

Up until the 1960’s treated human waste was spread on the land by farmers and it was only the discovery of the links between it and bacterial infections that put a stop to its use, but that was human waste left on the land not in it.

As for the rest of your post I am fully in agreement with your words and this reply is only a clarification of the points mentioned.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:23 PM, BritManToo said:

"Thai food’s bold blend of flavours: A culinary delight with a fatal bite"

 

Don't like it, prefer not to eat it.

The bite is to cover the taste of the meat they left out of the fridge for a day or two before cooking it.

 

Seconded. Most dishes' flavours are overpowered by the large amount of chillies, garlic, and glutamate used. It tastes mostly like 'chilli' and "burns" the stomach... Maybe it's like Chinese food; being delicious when prepared in America, but not in Asia... (I like Asian food, but more along the lines of Japanese, Malay, and Indonesian, with a few select dishes from other SE Asian countries.)

Edited January 26 by StayinThailand2much

[FruitPudding]

The circle of life in LOS: parasites living off parasites

[kwilco]

48 minutes ago, Jimjim1 said:

maybe wrong but I get the impression from this one statement that you are decrying the use of manure in one’s garden,

You are wrong.

[kwilco]

56 minutes ago, Jimjim1 said:

was where the problems of E-coli etc came about.

E-coli is a vast range of bacteria - with hundreds of species they are everywhere. not just homans Most locals get immunity from common local strains which is one way people get travel bugs.

Composting human waste toilets are used all over the world without any problems.

 

You should also understand that Nitrate and nitrite are oxidized forms of nitrogen that are typically produced during the later stages of composting,

Edited January 26 by kwilco

[kwilco]

51 minutes ago, Jimjim1 said:

The use of animal manure is documented further back than the Romans and deemed a natural source of fertiliser l

 

i think you need to re-ready post -it's about how little vegetables are contaminated by bacteria.

[Jimjim1]

20 hours ago, kwilco said:

think you need to re-ready post -it's about how little vegetables are contaminated by bacteria.

I did not take issue with your post nor did I attempt insult your intelligence I merely pointed out an impression that reading it imparted to me, so perhaps the rereading should be done on your part wherein you will note that I mentioned well rotted manure which in a nit picking exercise means composting, I also mentioned that treated human waste was used up until around the middle 1960’s, what I did not elaborate on was that the ultra violate light used back then to treat it was not sufficient because the depth of the passing gallon rate was higher than the coverage of UVL so it’s use was stopped.

 

I am also very aware of the reasons to compost and the production of natural nitrates, it is also why plants that have finished producing it’s edible part like cabbage and runner beans should never be dug up only cut to the ground because the root structure will be covered in little round balls of natural nitrates which will impart their goodness into the ground as winter progresses and turns into spring ready for crop replanting.

 

Only plants such as potato and tomato ( same family ) should be completely removed from the ground when finished producing and never composted to prevent diseases inherent to those plants

so the operative points here are “ Well rotted “ = composting and “ natural production processes “ .

 

I say again I did not take issue with your post and had you read my reply correctly you would have found no reason to take issue with me.
End of.

[kwilco]

57 minutes ago, Jimjim1 said:

I did not take issue with your post nor did I attempt insult your intelligence I merely pointed out an impression that reading it imparted to me, so perhaps the rereading should be done on your part wherein you will note that I mentioned well rotted manure which in a nit picking exercise means composting, I also mentioned that treated human waste was used up until around the middle 1960’s, what I did not elaborate on was that the ultra violate light used back then to treat it was not sufficient because the depth of the passing gallon rate was higher than the coverage of UVL so it’s use was stopped.

 

I am also very aware of the reasons to compost and the production of natural nitrates, it is also why plants that have finished producing it’s edible part like cabbage and runner beans should never be dug up only cut to the ground because the root structure will be covered in little round balls of natural nitrates which will impart their goodness into the ground as winter progresses and turns into spring ready for crop replanting.

 

Only plants such as potato and tomato ( same family ) should be completely removed from the ground when finished producing and never composted to prevent diseases inherent to those plants

so the operative points here are “ Well rotted “ = composting and “ natural production processes “ .

 

I say again I did not take issue with your post and had you read my reply correctly you would have found no reason to take issue with me.
End of.

 

 

this thread is about parasitic infections and others from certain types of food - a lot of your posts are seeing issues inaccurately in black and white. Flukes can be transmitted through unwashed veggies but raw and undercooked fish and meat is the main cause. You  are diverting the argument unconstructively. While treated human waste has been used as fertilizer throughout history, it wasn't widely used in developed countries until much later due to concerns about sanitation and regulations. UV light treatment is primarily used for wastewater disinfection and didn't play a significant role in treating waste for agricultural purposes.

Composting can be a great way to recycle organic materials and add nutrients to the soil. Leaving plant roots in the ground can contribute to this process as they decompose. However, there are no "little round balls of natural nitrates" on roots. Plant nutrients are distributed throughout the root system.

Some plants, like potatoes and tomatoes, can harbor diseases that can spread to subsequent crops. It's generally recommended to remove and dispose of these plants instead of composting them.

The key takeaways are that composting utilizes natural processes to break down organic matter and release nutrients, and careful consideration should be given to the potential disease risks associated with certain plants.

 

Edited January 27 by kwilco

[retarius]

Speaking for myself, I hate Thai food. I think it is vile, unpleasant to look at and unpleasant to eat. Plus it never fills me up. 

[kwilco]

4 minutes ago, retarius said:

Speaking for myself, I hate Thai food. I think it is vile, unpleasant to look at and unpleasant to eat. Plus it never fills me up. 

Not quite sure how that subjective comment relates to the OP apart from one observation - that is your a more likely to get a tummy bug from eating Western food in Thailand than eating local foods, due to the technology used is preparing and serving western style foods with which Thailand is still relatively unfamiliar.

[jacko45k]

On 1/26/2024 at 5:54 PM, Jimjim1 said:

I maybe wrong but I get the impression from this one statement that you are decrying the use of manure in one’s garden

Wasn't hepatitis spread in China because they used human excrement to fertilize crops?

[kwilco]

26 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Wasn't hepatitis spread in China because they used human excrement to fertilize crops?

certainly used in the UK.

[nausea]

Always thought of Thai food,  tasty as it is, as a kind of fusion food, combining Indian and Chinese elements. Yeah, you're crazy if you eat Thai dishes that include raw meat or fish, the risk of parasites is just too great, almost certain, I would've thought, if you do it regularly. I do wonder about Japanese sushi, though; I mean I'm as partial to sushi as the next man, and whilst in Japan they're pretty rigourous about their food hygiene, with only minimal cases of parasitic infection occuring, I'm not so sure about the stuff produced and sold here.

[kwilco]

AFAIA, 

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Always thought of Thai food,  tasty as it is, as a kind of fusion food, combining Indian and Chinese elements. Yeah, you're crazy if you eat Thai dishes that include raw meat or fish, the risk of parasites is just too great, almost certain, I would've thought, if you do it regularly. I do wonder about Japanese sushi, though; I mean I'm as partial to sushi as the next man, and whilst in Japan they're pretty rigourous about their food hygiene, with only minimal cases of parasitic infection occuring, I'm not so sure about the stuff produced and sold here.

I believe live flukes are a freshwater problem

[Jimjim1]

13 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Wasn't hepatitis spread in China because they used human excrement to fertilize crops?

Yes because it was untreated and no attempt made to compost it over time, just dump it and spread it.

[kwilco]

28 minutes ago, Jimjim1 said:

Yes because it was untreated and no attempt made to compost it over time, just dump it and spread it.

The outbreak in Shianghai in 1988 was down to contaminated shellfish.