Thai food’s bold blend of flavours: A culinary delight with a fatal bite

[arick]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:28 PM, kwilco said:

AAFAIK they don't carry this parasite and would have to be eaten raw.

Frog is eaten raw.  But frogs don't have the parasites because they don't eat snail or fish. 

[arick]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:53 PM, VBF said:

Yes I do get that but a good chef will account for that when cooking. It's just the "Nanny State" mentality in UK that irritates me.

Most bacteria is not found in meat it's found in recooked vegetables on the street food in Thailand for example the bacteria is not fully  in cooked in the middle of the stalk of the vegetable

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, arick said:

Frog is eaten raw.  But frogs don't have the parasites because they don't eat snail or fish. 

It is....disgusting. 

[pacovl46]

20 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

I have not asked for any help, and I do not need any. Maybe it was Thai bashing in a way, but it included a lot of facts and it was not racist.

Ok, for the last time, the way you worded it made it sound like Thais are stupid and despite warnings still do stupid <deleted>, which in my opinion applies to mankind in general amd not just to one specific country or one region in any given country. 

 

If you had written, people who eat that fish despite the warnings we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

Also, generalizations like people in the Isaan for example never hold any water because it's NEVER all of the people. It's like saying all the Irish are lcoholics or all the British tourists are drunk heathens that get into fights wherever they go. 

 

Food for thought. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by pacovl46

[VBF]

7 hours ago, arick said:

Most bacteria is not found in meat it's found in recooked vegetables on the street food in Thailand for example the bacteria is not fully  in cooked in the middle of the stalk of the vegetable

Not doubting you as such, but I've always thought that meat is far more likely to be the culprit than veggies. Especially pork which, I believe, is where the Halal and Kosher laws emanated a couple of thousand years ago.

Have you a link to this information?

[Gottfrid]

36 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Ok, for the last time, the way you worded it made it sound like Thais are stupid and despite warnings still do stupid <deleted>, which in my opinion applies to mankind in general amd not just to one specific country or one region in any given country. 

 

If you had written, people who eat that fish despite the warnings we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

Also, generalizations like people in the Isaan for example never hold any water because it's NEVER all of the people. It's like saying all the Irish are lcoholics or all the British tourists are drunk heathens that get into fights wherever they go. 

 

Food for thought. 

Ok for the last time,  I was writing in a Thai forum. I live in Thailand, hence I was referring to Thai people. We were discussing a dish from Isaan, mostly eaten by Isaan people. Hence focusing on Isaan people.

Did that make it easier for you to get?

[pacovl46]

4 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok for the last time,  I was writing in a Thai forum. I live in Thailand, hence I was referring to Thai people. We were discussing a dish from Isaan, mostly eaten by Isaan people. Hence focusing on Isaan people.

Did that make it easier for you to get?

Here's a few facts about your supposed "facts" about people from the Isaan:

 

Just because someone is uneducated does not mean that that person has no common sense, is fricking stupid and has a low IQ because intelligence and IQ have absolutely nothing to do with education. 

 

They probably look at it like this: 

 

How many people do I know who actually died from the parasite in that fish? The answer is probably one or two out of hundreds or even thousands of people they know, so for them the risk is pretty low. Guess that thought didn't  occur to you.  You just rather throw a whole region into the same pot! 

[Gottfrid]

13 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Here's a few facts about your supposed "facts" about people from the Isaan:

 

Just because someone is uneducated does not mean that that person has no common sense, is fricking stupid and has a low IQ because intelligence and IQ have absolutely nothing to do with education. 

 

They probably look at it like this: 

 

How many people do I know who actually died from the parasite in that fish? The answer is probably one or two out of hundreds or even thousands of people they know, so for them the risk is pretty low. Guess that thought didn't  occur to you.  You just rather throw a whole region into the same pot! 

Okay, if IQ and intelligence have nothing to do with uneducated people, why do you bring it up then? I have not talked about it. Neither have I posted that uneducated people no can have common sense. What are you on about? I have explained why I posted about Thais and people in Isaan. My belief is that is has to do with lower quality of teaching, knowledge and education.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Gottfrid

[kwilco]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:16 AM, Gottfrid said:

Ok parasite. Whatever, it will kill you. Corrected. ???? 

Not exactly - it can cause inflammations which in turn can lead to cancer in the liver

[pacovl46]

11 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Okay, if IQ and intelligence have nothing to do with uneducated people, why do you bring it up then? I have not talked about it. Neither have I posted that uneducated people no can have common sense. What are you on about? I have explained why I posted about Thais and people in Isaan. My belief is that is has to do with lower quality of teaching, knowledge and education.

I'm through with you! Waste of time! You'll never get it because you don't want to! 

[jts-khorat]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, Kerryd said:

But with Pork - it HAS to be cooked and eaten fairly soon after the animal has died or you could get trichinoisis. That is also why pork needs to be cooked thoroughly and is never eaten "raw" even in modern times, unlike say, fish and beef.

Another thing they really like to eat in Isaan: semi-raw pork liver. Just last month I was at a slaughter, where several families shared a pig. That was driven into the fields, slaughtered and cut up right there and then. The pork liver then got just the slightest sear on the outside over fire, before being eaten.

Quite delicious... and risky!

But the raw fish is really the most dangerous food here by far; I knew several people personally in the (not very large) village who died of liver cancer, with the suspected cause being this food.

[still kicking]

1 minute ago, jts-khorat said:

Another thing they really like to eat in Isaan: semi-raw pork liver. Just last month I was at a slaughter, where several families shared a pig. That was driven into the fields, slaughtered and cut up right there and then. The pork liver then got just the slightest sear on the outside over fire, before being eaten.

Quite delicious... and risky!

But the raw fish is really the most dangerous food here by far; I knew several people personally in the (not very large) village who died of liver cancer, with the suspected cause being this food.

Are there any vegans in Thailand?

[jts-khorat]

On 9/14/2023 at 12:14 PM, Moonlover said:

 

The health service does offer screening and treatment for free and efforts are made to raise awareness. But as the old adage goes, 'you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink'

I can remember that, indeed, there were big posters warning specifically of the dangers of raw fish dishes in Nong Bua Lamphu City five years ago.

 

Everybody in the village talked about it. But everybody also still ate the raw fish, because "saeb!".

[still kicking]

2 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

I can remember that, indeed, there were big posters warning specifically of the dangers of raw fish dishes in Nong Bua Lamphu City five years ago.

 

Everybody in the village talked about it. But everybody also still ate the raw fish, because "saeb!".

So why do so many people like Japanese food? 

[kwilco]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:58 AM, Kerryd said:

But with Pork - it HAS to be cooked and eaten fairly soon after the animal has died or you could get trichinosis.

doesn't matter about when it died - Often  trichinosis infected meats come from wild game, such as bear,  as well as pork products.

In the UK it hasn't been seen since the late 1970s.  US more common. 

Cooking is the answer.

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, still kicking said:

So why do so many people like Japanese food? 

Please explain....

[still kicking]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Please explain....

Most Japanese sea food is raw

[Gottfrid]

9 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

I'm through with you! Waste of time! You'll never get it because you don't want to! 

Likewise! You know, it can actually be like it´s you that don´t get it.

[Gottfrid]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

Not exactly - it can cause inflammations which in turn can lead to cancer in the liver

Ok, can kill you. Happy?

[Moonlover]

10 hours ago, still kicking said:

Most Japanese sea food is raw

Issue here is not about Japanese seafood. It's about the Liver Flute (Clonorchis) which infests the fresh water lakes and rivers in Thailand, particularly in the north east, where the fish is caught and prepared without any precautions.

 

Liver fluke cannot  survive in seawater therefor it cannot infect seafood.

[arick]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:47 PM, VBF said:

Not doubting you as such, but I've always thought that meat is far more likely to be the culprit than veggies. Especially pork which, I believe, is where the Halal and Kosher laws emanated a couple of thousand years ago.

Have you a link to this information?

Many studies were conducted around 2013-2014 samples if street food taken in central bkk. Showed bacteria salmonella etc were found in the stocks of the vegetables because the vegetables aren't thoroughly cooked they stir fry the meat first and then just add in the vegetables at the last and they're not fully cooked so all the samples taken most of them all the bacteria and salmonella were found in the vegetables not in the meat

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, arick said:

Many studies were conducted around 2013-2014 samples if street food taken in central bkk. Showed bacteria salmonella etc were found in the stocks of the vegetables because the vegetables aren't thoroughly cooked they stir fry the meat first and then just add in the vegetables at the last and they're not fully cooked so all the samples taken most of them all the bacteria and salmonella were found in the vegetables not in the meat

Salmonella bacteria are destroyed at or above 65C.

veg can be contaminated but in a wok, everything is mixed together.

THe whole point of "stir fry" is that it cooks at ultra-high temeratures which makes it safe. Obviously if the heat doesn't get through to the bacteria - wherever they are they will survive then mutliply in your gut and produce the toxins that make you sick.

In the States there are examples of mass contamination of salads supplied to supermarkets and restaurants.

 

The studies found no significant difference between "open market" and supermarkets. Salmonella was not the most common bacteria either.

Edited September 16, 2023 by kwilco

[VBF]

1 hour ago, arick said:

Many studies were conducted around 2013-2014 samples if street food taken in central bkk. Showed bacteria salmonella etc were found in the stocks of the vegetables because the vegetables aren't thoroughly cooked they stir fry the meat first and then just add in the vegetables at the last and they're not fully cooked so all the samples taken most of them all the bacteria and salmonella were found in the vegetables not in the meat

Thank you - I'm better informed.

 

From your explanation it does look as if the meat was the initial carrier, with the bugs cooked out but remaining in the juice / stock (?)

That then infected the vegetables. Presumably, all would have been OK if the vegetables had been cooked separately, Western style, but that's not the Asian way.

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, VBF said:

Thank you - I'm better informed.

 

From your explanation it does look as if the meat was the initial carrier, with the bugs cooked out but remaining in the juice / stock (?)

That then infected the vegetables. Presumably, all would have been OK if the vegetables had been cooked separately, Western style, but that's not the Asian way.

“Most Salmonella outbreaks are linked to contamination from post-harvest handling and transportation but the bacterium can enter the plant earlier from contaminated soil. Salmonella can reach the soil from manure containing animal feces or contaminated irrigation water.” - 

 

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/01/researchers-uncover-how-salmonella-infects-plants-before-harvest/#:~:text=Most%20Salmonella%20outbreaks%20are%20linked,feces%20or%20contaminated%20irrigation%20water

[VBF]

44 minutes ago, kwilco said:

“Most Salmonella outbreaks are linked to contamination from post-harvest handling and transportation but the bacterium can enter the plant earlier from contaminated soil. Salmonella can reach the soil from manure containing animal feces or contaminated irrigation water.” - 

 

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/01/researchers-uncover-how-salmonella-infects-plants-before-harvest/#:~:text=Most%20Salmonella%20outbreaks%20are%20linked,feces%20or%20contaminated%20irrigation%20water

Thank you again - I'm EVEN better informed. ????

In all my life i've never considered that Salmonella was a risk in fruit / veg. I've always thought it was just meat, poultry (and eggs) and fish.

Totally illogical when you think about it.

 

The things you learn on a forum dedicated to Thailand ????

[kwilco]

11 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, can kill you. Happy?

If you are to avoid death you need to understand that it isn't th flukes that kill you it is the subsequent damage they cause to the live that cam cause liver cancer. THere seem to be a lot of very confused ideas on this thread with people failing to identify how they can me made sick, and whether it is bacteria virus or parasite even that pose the danger.

[Gottfrid]

16 hours ago, kwilco said:

If you are to avoid death you need to understand that it isn't th flukes that kill you it is the subsequent damage they cause to the live that cam cause liver cancer. THere seem to be a lot of very confused ideas on this thread with people failing to identify how they can me made sick, and whether it is bacteria virus or parasite even that pose the danger.

Ok, so then you are saying it ain´t causing cancer? You know, everything does not have to be so perfect for me. Sometimes it´s just enough to know if it´s good or bad.

[RobU]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:50 PM, Stevemercer said:

My wife, an Isan Thai, will not eat Japanese food because it may contain raw fish.

 

However, she happily devours Isan delicacies such as raw prawns, crabs, beef and pork, along with sauces made with raw freshwater scaled fish (source of liver flukes)

My wife is Issan too the stuff she eats frightens me????

[RobU]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:01 PM, Purdey said:

Blood sausage (cooked) is a common food in the UK, but, while in Laos, I was offered Larb Leuat (blood larb) and couldn't force myself to even taste it. In Bang Ban District of Ayutthaya Province eating raw pork leads (or used to lead) to blindness.

You mean Black (or white) Pudding made in Yorkshire. The generic name of Blood Pudding let's the cat out of the bag that Yorkshiremen are actually Klingons in disguise. I'm having a devil of a job getting my wife to serve me bloodworms, Thais just don't seem to understand foreign quisine 

[metisdead]

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