Thai food’s bold blend of flavours: A culinary delight with a fatal bite

[Gottfrid]

13 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Here's a few facts about your supposed "facts" about people from the Isaan:

 

Just because someone is uneducated does not mean that that person has no common sense, is fricking stupid and has a low IQ because intelligence and IQ have absolutely nothing to do with education. 

 

They probably look at it like this: 

 

How many people do I know who actually died from the parasite in that fish? The answer is probably one or two out of hundreds or even thousands of people they know, so for them the risk is pretty low. Guess that thought didn't  occur to you.  You just rather throw a whole region into the same pot! 

Okay, if IQ and intelligence have nothing to do with uneducated people, why do you bring it up then? I have not talked about it. Neither have I posted that uneducated people no can have common sense. What are you on about? I have explained why I posted about Thais and people in Isaan. My belief is that is has to do with lower quality of teaching, knowledge and education.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Gottfrid

[kwilco]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:16 AM, Gottfrid said:

Ok parasite. Whatever, it will kill you. Corrected. ???? 

Not exactly - it can cause inflammations which in turn can lead to cancer in the liver

[pacovl46]

11 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Okay, if IQ and intelligence have nothing to do with uneducated people, why do you bring it up then? I have not talked about it. Neither have I posted that uneducated people no can have common sense. What are you on about? I have explained why I posted about Thais and people in Isaan. My belief is that is has to do with lower quality of teaching, knowledge and education.

I'm through with you! Waste of time! You'll never get it because you don't want to! 

[jts-khorat]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, Kerryd said:

But with Pork - it HAS to be cooked and eaten fairly soon after the animal has died or you could get trichinoisis. That is also why pork needs to be cooked thoroughly and is never eaten "raw" even in modern times, unlike say, fish and beef.

Another thing they really like to eat in Isaan: semi-raw pork liver. Just last month I was at a slaughter, where several families shared a pig. That was driven into the fields, slaughtered and cut up right there and then. The pork liver then got just the slightest sear on the outside over fire, before being eaten.

Quite delicious... and risky!

But the raw fish is really the most dangerous food here by far; I knew several people personally in the (not very large) village who died of liver cancer, with the suspected cause being this food.

[still kicking]

1 minute ago, jts-khorat said:

Another thing they really like to eat in Isaan: semi-raw pork liver. Just last month I was at a slaughter, where several families shared a pig. That was driven into the fields, slaughtered and cut up right there and then. The pork liver then got just the slightest sear on the outside over fire, before being eaten.

Quite delicious... and risky!

But the raw fish is really the most dangerous food here by far; I knew several people personally in the (not very large) village who died of liver cancer, with the suspected cause being this food.

Are there any vegans in Thailand?

[jts-khorat]

On 9/14/2023 at 12:14 PM, Moonlover said:

 

The health service does offer screening and treatment for free and efforts are made to raise awareness. But as the old adage goes, 'you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink'

I can remember that, indeed, there were big posters warning specifically of the dangers of raw fish dishes in Nong Bua Lamphu City five years ago.

 

Everybody in the village talked about it. But everybody also still ate the raw fish, because "saeb!".

[still kicking]

2 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

I can remember that, indeed, there were big posters warning specifically of the dangers of raw fish dishes in Nong Bua Lamphu City five years ago.

 

Everybody in the village talked about it. But everybody also still ate the raw fish, because "saeb!".

So why do so many people like Japanese food? 

[kwilco]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:58 AM, Kerryd said:

But with Pork - it HAS to be cooked and eaten fairly soon after the animal has died or you could get trichinosis.

doesn't matter about when it died - Often  trichinosis infected meats come from wild game, such as bear,  as well as pork products.

In the UK it hasn't been seen since the late 1970s.  US more common. 

Cooking is the answer.

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, still kicking said:

So why do so many people like Japanese food? 

Please explain....

[still kicking]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Please explain....

Most Japanese sea food is raw

[Gottfrid]

9 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

I'm through with you! Waste of time! You'll never get it because you don't want to! 

Likewise! You know, it can actually be like it´s you that don´t get it.

[Gottfrid]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

Not exactly - it can cause inflammations which in turn can lead to cancer in the liver

Ok, can kill you. Happy?

[Moonlover]

10 hours ago, still kicking said:

Most Japanese sea food is raw

Issue here is not about Japanese seafood. It's about the Liver Flute (Clonorchis) which infests the fresh water lakes and rivers in Thailand, particularly in the north east, where the fish is caught and prepared without any precautions.

 

Liver fluke cannot  survive in seawater therefor it cannot infect seafood.

[arick]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:47 PM, VBF said:

Not doubting you as such, but I've always thought that meat is far more likely to be the culprit than veggies. Especially pork which, I believe, is where the Halal and Kosher laws emanated a couple of thousand years ago.

Have you a link to this information?

Many studies were conducted around 2013-2014 samples if street food taken in central bkk. Showed bacteria salmonella etc were found in the stocks of the vegetables because the vegetables aren't thoroughly cooked they stir fry the meat first and then just add in the vegetables at the last and they're not fully cooked so all the samples taken most of them all the bacteria and salmonella were found in the vegetables not in the meat

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, arick said:

Many studies were conducted around 2013-2014 samples if street food taken in central bkk. Showed bacteria salmonella etc were found in the stocks of the vegetables because the vegetables aren't thoroughly cooked they stir fry the meat first and then just add in the vegetables at the last and they're not fully cooked so all the samples taken most of them all the bacteria and salmonella were found in the vegetables not in the meat

Salmonella bacteria are destroyed at or above 65C.

veg can be contaminated but in a wok, everything is mixed together.

THe whole point of "stir fry" is that it cooks at ultra-high temeratures which makes it safe. Obviously if the heat doesn't get through to the bacteria - wherever they are they will survive then mutliply in your gut and produce the toxins that make you sick.

In the States there are examples of mass contamination of salads supplied to supermarkets and restaurants.

 

The studies found no significant difference between "open market" and supermarkets. Salmonella was not the most common bacteria either.

Edited September 16, 2023 by kwilco

[VBF]

1 hour ago, arick said:

Many studies were conducted around 2013-2014 samples if street food taken in central bkk. Showed bacteria salmonella etc were found in the stocks of the vegetables because the vegetables aren't thoroughly cooked they stir fry the meat first and then just add in the vegetables at the last and they're not fully cooked so all the samples taken most of them all the bacteria and salmonella were found in the vegetables not in the meat

Thank you - I'm better informed.

 

From your explanation it does look as if the meat was the initial carrier, with the bugs cooked out but remaining in the juice / stock (?)

That then infected the vegetables. Presumably, all would have been OK if the vegetables had been cooked separately, Western style, but that's not the Asian way.

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, VBF said:

Thank you - I'm better informed.

 

From your explanation it does look as if the meat was the initial carrier, with the bugs cooked out but remaining in the juice / stock (?)

That then infected the vegetables. Presumably, all would have been OK if the vegetables had been cooked separately, Western style, but that's not the Asian way.

“Most Salmonella outbreaks are linked to contamination from post-harvest handling and transportation but the bacterium can enter the plant earlier from contaminated soil. Salmonella can reach the soil from manure containing animal feces or contaminated irrigation water.” - 

 

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/01/researchers-uncover-how-salmonella-infects-plants-before-harvest/#:~:text=Most%20Salmonella%20outbreaks%20are%20linked,feces%20or%20contaminated%20irrigation%20water

[VBF]

44 minutes ago, kwilco said:

“Most Salmonella outbreaks are linked to contamination from post-harvest handling and transportation but the bacterium can enter the plant earlier from contaminated soil. Salmonella can reach the soil from manure containing animal feces or contaminated irrigation water.” - 

 

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/01/researchers-uncover-how-salmonella-infects-plants-before-harvest/#:~:text=Most%20Salmonella%20outbreaks%20are%20linked,feces%20or%20contaminated%20irrigation%20water

Thank you again - I'm EVEN better informed. ????

In all my life i've never considered that Salmonella was a risk in fruit / veg. I've always thought it was just meat, poultry (and eggs) and fish.

Totally illogical when you think about it.

 

The things you learn on a forum dedicated to Thailand ????

[kwilco]

11 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, can kill you. Happy?

If you are to avoid death you need to understand that it isn't th flukes that kill you it is the subsequent damage they cause to the live that cam cause liver cancer. THere seem to be a lot of very confused ideas on this thread with people failing to identify how they can me made sick, and whether it is bacteria virus or parasite even that pose the danger.

[Gottfrid]

16 hours ago, kwilco said:

If you are to avoid death you need to understand that it isn't th flukes that kill you it is the subsequent damage they cause to the live that cam cause liver cancer. THere seem to be a lot of very confused ideas on this thread with people failing to identify how they can me made sick, and whether it is bacteria virus or parasite even that pose the danger.

Ok, so then you are saying it ain´t causing cancer? You know, everything does not have to be so perfect for me. Sometimes it´s just enough to know if it´s good or bad.

[RobU]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:50 PM, Stevemercer said:

My wife, an Isan Thai, will not eat Japanese food because it may contain raw fish.

 

However, she happily devours Isan delicacies such as raw prawns, crabs, beef and pork, along with sauces made with raw freshwater scaled fish (source of liver flukes)

My wife is Issan too the stuff she eats frightens me????

[RobU]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:01 PM, Purdey said:

Blood sausage (cooked) is a common food in the UK, but, while in Laos, I was offered Larb Leuat (blood larb) and couldn't force myself to even taste it. In Bang Ban District of Ayutthaya Province eating raw pork leads (or used to lead) to blindness.

You mean Black (or white) Pudding made in Yorkshire. The generic name of Blood Pudding let's the cat out of the bag that Yorkshiremen are actually Klingons in disguise. I'm having a devil of a job getting my wife to serve me bloodworms, Thais just don't seem to understand foreign quisine 

[metisdead]

Some troll posts in violation of our Community Standards and the replies have been removed:

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[kwilco]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:04 AM, arick said:

Most bacteria is not found in meat it's found in recooked vegetables on the street food in Thailand for example the bacteria is not fully  in cooked in the middle of the stalk of the vegetable

Rubbish! You don't understand how bacteria settle and thrive - You've read something somewhere about bacteria on vegetables and famously got it wrong.

most bacteria are on the surface of uncooked meat where they thrive.

As for vegetables themselves, they aren't inherently sterile, but they can indeed harbour bacteria from various sources. Here are some of the main culprits:

Soil and water: Vegetables grow in soil and are often irrigated with water, both of which can contain naturally occurring bacteria like E. coli and Salmonella.

Manure: Some farmers use manure as fertilizer, which can introduce harmful bacteria into the soil and onto the vegetables.

Animals: Wild animals and insects can come into contact with vegetables during growth, potentially leaving behind bacteria like Listeria.

Handling and processing: During harvesting, transport, and processing, vegetables can come in contact with contaminated surfaces, equipment, or human hands, introducing bacteria like Staphylococcus aureus.

 

So wash vegetables, but don't be paranoid.  Washing with clean water significantly reduces bacterial levels on vegetables. it removes soil, dirt, debris, and so a good portion of surface bacteria. Peeling some vegetables can also further reduce bacteria.

 

 Some veggies are more prone to bacterial contamination than others:

Leafy greens: Due to the large surface area and tendency to trap dirt, leafy greens like spinach (watch out Pop-eye!) and lettuce require a good washing.

Bean sprouts are grown in warm, humid conditions, which are ideal for bacterial growth. You should wash or cook/blanche before consuming them.

Pre-cut vegetables are convenient, but have more exposed surface area, making them prone to contamination during processing. 

 

As I said, ta large proportion of people actually contaminate themselves - e.g. hygiene in the kitchen, including washing hands and utensils frequently, can prevent the spread of bacteria fand hand to mouth contamination is very common - that is why smoking is banned in kitchens in most countries.

[Negita43]

I am not disputing what the article says (nor agreeing with it).

However, there are things we ingest that are reckoned to be just as harmful

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/alcohol

But I still enjoy my glass(es) of wine - I started drinking wine (never touch beer) at 25 and I'm now over 80 and my last blood test showed the liver is holding up well.

As the old saying goes - All things in moderation

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Negita43 said:

I am not disputing what the article says (nor agreeing with it).

However, there are things we ingest that are reckoned to be just as harmful

THat's a rather facile response - firstly the effects of alcohol etc are calculated by numbers in millions - you are just one - but when it comes to parasitic infections it is a different health issue that can be avoided - you are making a false dichotomy.

[Negita43]

59 minutes ago, kwilco said:

THat's a rather facile response - firstly the effects of alcohol etc are calculated by numbers in millions - you are just one - but when it comes to parasitic infections it is a different health issue that can be avoided - you are making a false dichotomy.

You may think so but what is the end result of both?

[kwilco]

35 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

You may think so but what is the end result of both?

 

THe results of this parasitic infection have been explained on this post, i.e. cholangiocarcinoma, or bile duct cancer, 

THe results of drinking are tangential to this thread - hence the false dichotomy.

Are you trying to suggest that one glass of alcohol would give you liver cancer? THe normal result of drinking is sclerosis amongst other things - I can't understand why anyone should think justifying drinking in anyway mitigates the problem assiciated with parasites - unless of course they are are suffering from another effect of alcohol - brain damage.

Infections by flukes are usually treated with a drug called triclabendazole, this doesn't work with alcohol as the parasite is on the outside

 

 

Edited January 24 by kwilco

[arick]

19 hours ago, kwilco said:

Rubbish! You don't understand how bacteria settle and thrive - You've read something somewhere about bacteria on vegetables and famously got it wrong.

most bacteria are on the surface of uncooked meat where they thrive.

As for vegetables themselves, they aren't inherently sterile, but they can indeed harbour bacteria from various sources. Here are some of the main culprits:

Soil and water: Vegetables grow in soil and are often irrigated with water, both of which can contain naturally occurring bacteria like E. coli and Salmonella.

Manure: Some farmers use manure as fertilizer, which can introduce harmful bacteria into the soil and onto the vegetables.

Animals: Wild animals and insects can come into contact with vegetables during growth, potentially leaving behind bacteria like Listeria.

Handling and processing: During harvesting, transport, and processing, vegetables can come in contact with contaminated surfaces, equipment, or human hands, introducing bacteria like Staphylococcus aureus.

 

So wash vegetables, but don't be paranoid.  Washing with clean water significantly reduces bacterial levels on vegetables. it removes soil, dirt, debris, and so a good portion of surface bacteria. Peeling some vegetables can also further reduce bacteria.

 

 Some veggies are more prone to bacterial contamination than others:

Leafy greens: Due to the large surface area and tendency to trap dirt, leafy greens like spinach (watch out Pop-eye!) and lettuce require a good washing.

Bean sprouts are grown in warm, humid conditions, which are ideal for bacterial growth. You should wash or cook/blanche before consuming them.

Pre-cut vegetables are convenient, but have more exposed surface area, making them prone to contamination during processing. 

 

As I said, ta large proportion of people actually contaminate themselves - e.g. hygiene in the kitchen, including washing hands and utensils frequently, can prevent the spread of bacteria fand hand to mouth contamination is very common - that is why smoking is banned in kitchens in most countries.

So much for my biology doctrine and so much for the research that they published in 2014

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, arick said:

So much for my biology doctrine and so much for the research that they published in 2014

"Dictrine"?? - There you go...ill-informed and out of touch.

Claims of qualifications are worthless, it is the information you post that counts.

Edited January 25 by kwilco