Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[jacob29]

6 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Thailand is unable to discern a genuine foreign document from an edited one.

Thailand has 0 power to enforce its tax law offshore and certainly can't require any docs from third-parties abroad.

They have as much capability as just about any other country with similar tax laws (which is most).

 

I find it highly implausible that such a trivial strategy would work in practice. Anti money laundering checks sometimes request similar information (source of wealth), there is no chance it's as simple as falsifying international tax returns - or crime groups wouldn't need to go to extraordinary lengths to launder money

[UKresonant]

32 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I would expect the typical retired UK middle manager to bridge that gap with a private pension. Look at @topt 's post.

Augmented with Investments perhaps or purchased annuities, or timed asset disposals. 

Private pensions were / are within that cap mentioned, and still are Tax free 25% capped. (total of all pensions)

[TroubleandGrumpy]

22 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Your incorrect on that, they have an agreement to communicate information about citizens of each others countries that reside in each others countries for the purposes of ascertaining if they have lodged tax returns regarding residency clarification. 

 

No court orders required, however what I read was, that if it was not in the interest of public policy, then no such information would be transmitted.

 

At the end of the day, they write the legislation and agreements, and can basically do whatever they want.

 

We on the other have to educate ourselves on the legislation and agreements and find ways around them, if we can, after all, sitting on bar stools doesn't provide us with loopholes, only other holes.

They cannot exchange information as easily as you imply - laws relating to privacy may not be 'strong' here in Thailand, but they are very much both strong and enforced in countries like Australia.  What you say applies in Thailand, but not so much in other countries - they cannot and will not easily give personal information out to another country.

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

They cannot exchange information as easily as you imply - laws relating to privacy may not be 'strong' here in Thailand, but they are very much both strong and enforced in countries like Australia.  What you say applies in Thailand, but not so much in other countries - they cannot and will not easily give personal information out to another country.

Oh they wont eh?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/02/revealed-australian-spy-agency-offered-to-share-data-about-ordinary-citizens

 

And not to stray too   far off topic, but!

 

https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/travel-data/

[TroubleandGrumpy]

14 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I am not sure how that legal protection of the individual will stand as the needs and demands of being a member nation of the OECD grow. It's assumed that Thailand's RD deciding to activate this decades-old, but previously unenforced ruling on assessable income is to assuage the requirements of OECD membership and demands of fellow member nations that may already have a more "worldly" revenue department.

 

Since the G20 'banned' banking secrecy in 2009, there's been steady growth of agreed, international rules and regulations that banks need to comply with in order to maintain their access to global banking networks. They have been legally bound to carry out KYC (know your customer) due diligence for over a decade already. Once they verify who you are and your tax ID number (TIN), your personal identity is reduced to that anonymous sequence of numbers and legally, that's all they need to share with other, foreign agencies. Nobody cares or needs to know if you are a single, retired bricklayer from Nuneaton, living outside Chiang Rai on a Retirement Extension and a part time job teaching English online to Chinese students.

 

Yes and No.  It is not at all 'rampant and easy' as some people are suggesting.

I can only speak on this to Australia - but there it is strictly controlled and monitored, especially to a another country.

Privacy Policy - Australian Banking Association (ausbanking.org.au)

OAIC

Privacy Policy | RBA

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Oh they wont eh?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/02/revealed-australian-spy-agency-offered-to-share-data-about-ordinary-citizens

 

And not to stray too   far off topic, but!

 

https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/travel-data/

Mike - you are just being argumentative and obtuse.  Just for starters I know a lot more about those organisations and what they do - they dont give out banking transactions easily to any overseas tax departments.  And I wont waste any more time, other than to copy the exact words used in that left-wing rag about Snowden's illegal release of information:-

 

This article is more than 10 years old

Australia's surveillance agency offered to share information collected about ordinary Australian citizens with its major intelligence partners, according to a secret 2008 document leaked by the US whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The document shows the partners discussing whether or not to share "medical, legal or religious information", and increases concern that the agency could be operating outside its legal mandate, according to the human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson QC.

The Australian intelligence agency, then known as the Defence Signals Directorate (DSD), indicated it could share bulk material without some of the privacy restraints imposed by other countries, such as Canada.

"DSD can share bulk, unselected, unminimised metadata as long as there is no intent to target an Australian national," notes from an intelligence conference say. "Unintentional collection is not viewed as a significant issue."

The agency acknowledged that more substantial interrogation of the material would, however, require a warrant.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 2/5/2024 at 10:29 PM, UKresonant said:

I would certainly not want to rely on the tie breaker in article 4, as a principle reason for not filing, if you know you have remitted (especially) non pension , non-pre-taxed income . Very thin ice. UK HMRC or equivl. may not issue a "letter of confirmation" then your hung out to dry. Just have to file.....

 

All of my pensions are pre-taxed in the UK in any case.

No - not at all IMO - you dont have to file a tax return unless you have to pay income tax.  

But if you feel the need to do so, and are happy to let Thai RD decide what you have to pay, then go right ahead.

Just remember, they will then want a tax return done every year going forward.

If you think you should file, then I suggest you speak to a Thai tax expert/consultant/accountant to make sure, and not take as given what anyone states here on AN who is not a Thailand tax expert/consultant/accountant - including myself. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 2/6/2024 at 10:32 AM, samtam said:

 

Oh I understand your comment. The UK State Pension (UKSP) is tax free based on the TEDA. My UKSP is THB431,800 and my TEDA is THB500,000.

 

What I find so odd about the situation in Thailand, is that for many of us, on visas, extended based on Retirement, we are strictly forbidden from working in Thailand, and so are totally reliant on income from abroad to meet daily necessities, such as food, accommodation etc. Holders of LTR for "wealthy retirees" are exempt from tax for inward remittances, and I venture to say this should be the default position for expat retirees. But what I think matters not a jot to the Thai government, and catering to the "desirable expat retirement destination" is not even on the radar.

IMO the Thai Govt will do something similar to what the Malaysian Govt did when they introduced this can or worms called taxing Foreign Sourced Income (FSI) - and I hope they follow their lead about implementation for private persons.

1.  Malaysia implemented basically the same system in 2021, but delayed the start for personal taxpayers until 2025.

2.  Malaysia decided that it was 'wrong' to tax retired/married Expats living in Malaysia who are not working and bringing money into Malaysia from overseas:

 

Are there any conditions for resident individuals to qualify for the FSI exemption?

 

Qualifying FSI is exempt from tax provided the income has been subjected to tax in the country of origin. FSI received from individuals is regarded as having been subject to tax in the country of origin if:

 

a) Income tax or withholding tax on the FSI has been paid or is payable; or

 

b) Tax is not imposed in the country of origin because of:

 

   i) The taxation system of the origin country

 

   ii) The FSI of the individual falling below the taxable threshold in the country of origin

 

   iii) Income that is given an exemption through a tax incentive

 

   iv) In the case of foreign dividend income, it has been subject to underlying tax

 

   v) Foreign dividend income that is paid from underlying profits arising from  operating profits

 

It is my understanding that the application of income taxes under this new 'world income system' is not about taxing individual retired Expats living in any country who are bringing into that country their Pensions or Savings.  It is about stopping companies and wealthy individuals who organise for their incomes to be received in another country/ies and thereby avoid paying income taxes - and others that use that system to basically money launder.  On top of that new arrangement, in Thailand they had a system that allowed income to be 'salted' for 12+ months in another country, and when then remitted back into Thailand was not subjected to income taxes.  Complicated, but I am confident that they will get this all sorted - eventually.   IMO, until they get this sorted, it is best to not get involved with the Thai RD at all. 

[samtam]

2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO the Thai Govt will do something similar to what the Malaysian Govt did when they introduced this can or worms called taxing Foreign Sourced Income (FSI) - and I hope they follow their lead about implementation for private persons.

1.  Malaysia implemented basically the same system in 2021, but delayed the start for personal taxpayers until 2025.

2.  Malaysia decided that it was 'wrong' to tax retired/married Expats living in Malaysia who are not working and bringing money into Malaysia from overseas:

 

Are there any conditions for resident individuals to qualify for the FSI exemption?

 

Qualifying FSI is exempt from tax provided the income has been subjected to tax in the country of origin. FSI received from individuals is regarded as having been subject to tax in the country of origin if:

 

a) Income tax or withholding tax on the FSI has been paid or is payable; or

 

b) Tax is not imposed in the country of origin because of:

 

   i) The taxation system of the origin country

 

   ii) The FSI of the individual falling below the taxable threshold in the country of origin

 

   iii) Income that is given an exemption through a tax incentive

 

   iv) In the case of foreign dividend income, it has been subject to underlying tax

 

   v) Foreign dividend income that is paid from underlying profits arising from  operating profits

 

It is my understanding that the application of income taxes under this new 'world income system' is not about taxing individual retired Expats living in any country who are bringing into that country their Pensions or Savings.  It is about stopping companies and wealthy individuals who organise for their incomes to be received in another country/ies and thereby avoid paying income taxes - and others that use that system to basically money launder.  On top of that new arrangement, in Thailand they had a system that allowed income to be 'salted' for 12+ months in another country, and when then remitted back into Thailand was not subjected to income taxes.  Complicated, but I am confident that they will get this all sorted - eventually.   IMO, until they get this sorted, it is best to not get involved with the Thai RD at all. 

 

I like your optimism, and your argument makes complete sense, but...

 

Even with the Malaysian scenario with which doubtless they are familiar, and the many discussions herein and elsewhere, the consultative process with CPAs and stakeholders, the RD/Thai government shoot from the hip. 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I like your optimism, and your argument makes complete sense, but...

 

Even with the Malaysian scenario with which doubtless they are familiar, and the many discussions herein and elsewhere, the consultative process with CPAs and stakeholders, the RD/Thai government shoot from the hip. 

Just to remind that the RD has only made one small change to one RD rule and with the stated purpose in mind of tackling evasion by native Thai's. That doesn't sound like shooting form the hip to me.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

16 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I like your optimism, and your argument makes complete sense, but...

 

Even with the Malaysian scenario with which doubtless they are familiar, and the many discussions herein and elsewhere, the consultative process with CPAs and stakeholders, the RD/Thai government shoot from the hip. 

Very true mate - they have a history of both shooting from the hip and hitting their own feet 🙂

 

Sometimes, though, they eventually get it right - until then I am going to use every angle and excuse to stay out of their sights. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

24 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Just to remind that the RD has only made one small change to one RD rule and with the stated purpose in mind of tackling evasion by native Thai's. That doesn't sound like shooting form the hip to me.

** Personalisation removed, comment on the post, not the poster, please.

 

That 'small change' was the mechanism that meant Thai RD did not have to pursue overseas income - soemthing both they and the wealthy using that system were more than happy to allow to continue for over 30 years.

 

That 'small change' was the reason why the Thai RD ignored the fact that Expats were bringing money into the country that 'might' be income, as they would of course do what the wealthy Thais did - keep it for 12 months and then remit it. And how would they prove otherwise.

 

That 'small change' now means the Thai RD has to put in place new systems and processes to identify what money is 'foreign income' and against which they have to impose income taxes.  And they are under pressure by the PM to bring in more money - the economy is broke. 

 

That 'small change' has caused more concerns amongst Expats that anything I have seen before.  NMot because of its intentions, but because of how it might be implemented and how it will (or not) directly effect Expats.

 

[Mike Lister]

38 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

** Personalisation removed, comment on the post, not the poster, please.

 

That 'small change' was the mechanism that meant Thai RD did not have to pursue overseas income - soemthing both they and the wealthy using that system were more than happy to allow to continue for over 30 years.

 

That 'small change' was the reason why the Thai RD ignored the fact that Expats were bringing money into the country that 'might' be income, as they would of course do what the wealthy Thais did - keep it for 12 months and then remit it. And how would they prove otherwise.

 

That 'small change' now means the Thai RD has to put in place new systems and processes to identify what money is 'foreign income' and against which they have to impose income taxes.  And they are under pressure by the PM to bring in more money - the economy is broke. 

 

That 'small change' has caused more concerns amongst Expats that anything I have seen before.  NMot because of its intentions, but because of how it might be implemented and how it will (or not) directly effect Expats.

 

 

There is no evidence that I have been able to find that confirm the Thai economy is broke, on the contrary, all the evidence points towards the opposite. I posted earlier today on this subject, it's worth considering, below. There is unbridled and unconstrained anxiety in the minds of some members  regarding the topic of Thai tax and the rule change. Some are imagining the absolute worst possible case possible, despite recent information suggesting the impact will be minimal or non-existent and this is unhelpful to the remaining posters. Posters need to get a grip!

 

Secondly, the concern that has been generated amongst expats has indeed been a concern, things could have been managed differently. But in the cold light of day, it is difficult to apportion too much blame on the Thai Revenue, just because some expats did not bother to learn about the system of taxation in the country they started to call home.

 

 

 

 

 

[samtam]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

 

There is no evidence that I have been able to find that confirm the Thai economy is broke, on the contrary, all the evidence points towards the opposite. I posted earlier today on this subject, it's worth considering, below. There is unbridled and unconstrained anxiety in the minds of some members  regarding the topic of Thai tax and the rule change. Some are imagining the absolute worst possible case possible, despite recent information suggesting the impact will be minimal or non-existent and this is unhelpful to the remaining posters. Posters need to get a grip!

 

Secondly, the concern that has been generated amongst expats has indeed been a concern, things could have been managed differently. But in the cold light of day, it is difficult to apportion too much blame on the Thai Revenue, just because some expats did not bother to learn about the system of taxation in the country they started to call home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Government and the Bank of Thailand seem to have locked horns over economic policy for the country, with the government wanting BOT to reduce interest rates.

 

Similarly there are powerful forces within the coalition, and from influential businesses that are fiercely against the Digital Wallet scheme, and how it will be funded.

 

Ergo, the Government has itself stated that the economy is in crisis...Straits Times .

 

(and several other publications including one that cannot be mentioned; that one is of course closely associated with one of the major conglomerates in Thailand, and the consensus seems to be that this group are not in favour of racking up the country's debt.)

 

This tussle will play out over time. Whether the economy is truly in crisis, or whether it is expedient for the Government to say it is, is another matter. Certainly GDP growth is lower than originally forecast, 2.8% vs. 3.2%.

 

Whether mucking around with interpretation of the tax code will have a further impact, by restricting investment into Thailand, (certainly the property market sector available for foreign ownership), cannot yet be assessed. Similarly, whether the PM's multiple foreign road shows seeking investment in Thailand is unquantifiable, (although probably not related to tax).

 

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

The Government and the Bank of Thailand seem to have locked horns over economic policy for the country, with the government wanting BOT to reduce interest rates.

 

Similarly there are powerful forces within the coalition, and from influential businesses that are fiercely against the Digital Wallet scheme, and how it will be funded.

 

Ergo, the Government has itself stated that the economy is in crisis...Straits Times .

 

(and several other publications including one that cannot be mentioned; that one is of course closely associated with one of the major conglomerates in Thailand, and the consensus seems to be that this group are not in favour of racking up the country's debt.)

 

This tussle will play out over time. Whether the economy is truly in crisis, or whether it is expedient for the Government to say it is, is another matter. Certainly GDP growth is lower than originally forecast, 2.8% vs. 3.2%.

 

Whether mucking around with interpretation of the tax code will have a further impact, by restricting investment into Thailand, (certainly the property market sector available for foreign ownership), cannot yet be assessed. Similarly, whether the PM's multiple foreign road shows seeking investment in Thailand is unquantifiable, (although probably not related to tax).

 

I am aware of the tussle between the two camps and that the state of the economy has been politicised, at the expense of the truth. I have no doubt at all that there will be lots of articles quoting powerful players who say this and that, as we have seen in this thread, sadly, many people take the statements at face value.

 

I have looked at the economy independently plus I have looked for articles by well known economists who might support the current story line. I posted my view in the earlier linked thread which says that I can find no evidence of an economic crisis, neither can I find evidence of another economist saying there is a crisis. On the contrary, the BOT governor tells us the economy is fine, a view that I and the facts seem to support. 

 

I think it would be a mistake to try and link the tax issue with the economy, I just don't believe they are related or that they will be. One possible answer is the government is projecting into the future, the potential impact on Thailand of a change in US policy after the elections. Another possible angle is that we don't have sight of some key data or facts that might influence our view. 

 

[Mike Lister]

I was reading back through the early part of this thread to see what was said. I've been taken aback by how repetitive the arguments have been. A point is raised, the answer confirmed and the proof provided and all goes quiet. Then, two weeks later, the same point arises again and a second debate is held. Case in point: in mid September, somebody gave the wrong definition of a Thai Tax Resident. This was promptly corrected and a link provided. Three days ago we had the same discussion, about the same topic and once again links were provided. All this is well and good except the same people were involved on both occasions! How many times the same debate was held in-between, remains to be counted. I suppose I'm just reinforcing the point here that this thread keeps going round in circles and accomplishes very little that's useful.

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

They cannot exchange information as easily as you imply - laws relating to privacy may not be 'strong' here in Thailand, but they are very much both strong and enforced in countries like Australia.  What you say applies in Thailand, but not so much in other countries - they cannot and will not easily give personal information out to another country.

 

I knew I had this somewhere and now that I have found it and read it once again, disagree with your comments and propose you read this and then perhaps provide me with your interpretation (respectfully) if you disagree.

 

ARTICLE 24   Exchange of information  

1.    
The competent authorities shall exchange such information as is necessary for carrying out this Agreement or of the domestic law of each of the territories concerning taxes to which this Agreement applies insofar as the taxation under that law is not contrary to this Agreement. Any information received by the competent authority of a territory shall be treated as secret in the same manner as information obtained under the domestic law of that territory and shall be disclosed only to persons or authorities (including courts and administrative bodies) concerned with the assessment or collection of, the enforcement or prosecution in respect of, or the determination of appeals in relation to, the taxes to which this Agreement applies. Such persons or authorities shall use the information only for such purposes. They may disclose the information in public court proceedings or in judicial decisions.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/fulldocument?filename=PAC19530082#PAC/19530082/Sch30old-repealed-1

[4MyEgo]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

All this is well and good except the same people were involved on both occasions! How many times the same debate was held in-between, remains to be counted.

 

I also find this with a certain person on another topic, suffice to say, there is only so much a Koala can bear, and when you come to that conclusion you will do as I have done. give up.

 

As the old saying goes, you can lead them to water, but you can't force them to .....

 

Perhaps its not ego's, but more so dementia setting in LoL 

 

Edited February 7 by 4MyEgo

[Mike Lister]

17 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I also find this with a certain person on another topic, suffice to say, there is only so much a Koala can bear, and when you come to that conclusion you will do as I have done. give up.

 

As the old saying goes, you can lead them to water, but you can't force them to .....

 

 

 

I'm not going to give up on this because I think it's too important, We have a responsibility to appropriately inform the less aware and to set aside misleading and extraneous stories. This need over rides any poster saying whatever they want. But I do think a different approach is called for so I've consulted on this subject and agreed a way forward. 

 

Any more false claims such as resident foreigners not being tax resident or assessable income not being defined, will simply be removed and replaced with the information we understand to be factual,  along with a quote from whatever source it originated from. There will be no more debates on these points unless new information arises that makes it sensible for the issue to be revisited.

 

Everyone is welcome to post their opinions and ask questions, but posts that are overly lengthy and contain thoughts on everything and anything are not helpful. The key forum rules that posters should keep in mind are the ones below, they are the ones that are most often broken in this thread. 

 

9. You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages. You will respect other members and post in a civil manner. Personal attacks, insults or hate speech posted on the forum or sent by private message are not allowed.

 

10. You will not post troll messages. Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing forum members by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other members into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

11. You will not troll or stalk other members by misusing forum posts, private messages, reactions, emojis or by any other means.

 

14. You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, Thai people, Thai culture, Thai institutions such as the military, judicial or law enforcement system or specific locations within Thailand.

 

[Mike Lister]

The Simple Tax Guide has been updated with the latest information and most errors fixed. If you spot anything that needs attention, please say:

 

 

[Mike Lister]

I was reading the PWC press release page and spotted the following, which I think is interesting because it points towards a wholesale upgrade of the Thai Revenue approach to tax, rather then just the one small rule change being discussed here. The web site also has a copy of the RD 5 year plan which started last year and lists all the changes and strategy the RD will undertake. It's a meaty document but is only in Thai.

 

BANGKOK, 14 November 2023 – Brace yourselves for new tax rules in this digital era. That’s the message PwC Thailand has issued to entrepreneurs with sweeping changes in tax regulations and practices on the horizon. New regulations and policies are imminent as the Revenue Department continuously updates the tax code for the digital era.

With cross-border business increasingly conducted online, regulations written for a pre-internet age no longer suffice. Tax agencies aim to establish fair systems that capture revenue in an economy without borders. That means regulations, interpretations and practices will transform rapidly in the coming months and years.

Entrepreneurs must prepare now to adapt. Those who understand the new rules can confidently comply, reducing audit risk and burdensome disputes. But ignoring this tax revolution could create business headaches as companies scramble to realign operations and prove compliance.

 

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/press-room/press-release/2023/press-release-14-11-23-en.html

[Badrabbit]

Tottaly confused I have not understood 1 comment, thought this was supposed to be simple or am I just thick.

 

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Tottaly confused I have not understood 1 comment, thought this was supposed to be simple or am I just thick.

 

Not understood one word of what exactly?

[Badrabbit]

30 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Not understood one word of what exactly?

No problem, I'm not going to read any of this any more, it's all over my head.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

No problem, I'm not going to read any of this any more, it's all over my head.

I wouldn't worry about it. There are lots of people similar to you who have spent their entire working lives never needing to understand tax because everything was taken care for them by the government and their employer. Which is really why we we're doing what we we're doing in these threads and by producing the simple guide. Ultimately however, the subject can never be reduced to truly simple terms because it can be complicated for some. Which is why we desperately need these discussions to be simplified and focussed and not keep going round in circles, talking about airy fairy aspects that are nothing more than distractions that confuse a majority of people.

[Badrabbit]

21 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I wouldn't worry about it. There are lots of people similar to you who have spent their entire working lives never needing to understand tax because everything was taken care for them by the government and their employer. Which is really why we we're doing what we we're doing in these threads and by producing the simple guide. Ultimately however, the subject can never be reduced to truly simple terms because it can be complicated for some. Which is why we desperately need these discussions to be simplified and focussed and not keep going round in circles, talking about airy fairy aspects that are nothing more than distractions that confuse a majority of people.

Explained very well, I shouldent need worries especially about tax, tax has always been taken care of for me, now it seems to be a big worry, I'm just a simple person living off 3 pensions which are all taxed in the UK before being sent here, I need life to be simple in order to enjoy life, oh well carry on regardless.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

28 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I wouldn't worry about it. There are lots of people similar to you who have spent their entire working lives never needing to understand tax because everything was taken care for them by the government and their employer. Which is really why we we're doing what we we're doing in these threads and by producing the simple guide. Ultimately however, the subject can never be reduced to truly simple terms because it can be complicated for some. Which is why we desperately need these discussions to be simplified and focussed and not keep going round in circles, talking about airy fairy aspects that are nothing more than distractions that confuse a majority of people.

I am assuming that you are posting this as a contributor, and my response is to that - not to any moderation activity.

There are many things that confuse people in this thread, and it includes what you and I are posting.

Going forward though I will no longer be confusing anyone. Good luck.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

37 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Going forward though I will no longer be confusing anyone. Good luck.

Amen, Hallelujah and many thanks for being so considerate...

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I wouldn't worry about it. There are lots of people similar to you who have spent their entire working lives never needing to understand tax because everything was taken care for them by the government and their employer. Which is really why we we're doing what we we're doing in these threads and by producing the simple guide. Ultimately however, the subject can never be reduced to truly simple terms because it can be complicated for some. Which is why we desperately need these discussions to be simplified and focussed and not keep going round in circles, talking about airy fairy aspects that are nothing more than distractions that confuse a majority of people.

Wow, nice job of talking down to posters. Many of us understood from day 1 this was a non story for the majority.

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wow, nice job of talking down to posters. Many of us understood from day 1 this was a non story for the majority.

Wow, nice job of baiting a moderator, keep it up and see where it takes you!