Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Mike Lister]

May we please get the discussion back on track. the idea of issuing Tax Clearance certificates or similar to all foreigners is purely hypothetical at the stage and the implementation fraught with difficulty. Let's not get too  deeply involved in exploring something that may never come to pass and which many will regard as scaremongering.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

There has been no indication given that visa extension or issuance will be linked to Thai tax returns. It is a logical conclusion to think they may be linked in the future but that is not a simple matter. Some professions are already required to obtain tax clearance certificates before they can leave the country, musicians being one. But since many foreign residents in Thailand, here on long stay visa's, will not be required to file a tax return, mostly because they don't have assessible income, the process of subjecting all foreigners to the tax clearance certificate regime is fraught with difficulties.

True. 

 

I have no link to post about it.  It was just an idea how the Thai government MAY ensure compliance. 

 

As I said in another post, they can't have expats plodding along outside of the Thai tax system.  They will have to push them into the system somehow, and Immigration requiring a document from the RD stating you have either paid your tax, or are exempt from paying tax, makes sense, does it not? 

 

Mike, I typed and posted before reading your post about not posting about how the Thai government will ensure compliance.  Perhaps the topic of compliance / enforcement needs its own thread, because the whole Thai tax policy on taxing remitted funds is useless without ensuring compliance / enforcement. 

 

I don't see it as scaremongering.  It's obvious the Thai government is going to have to do something to get foreigners to comply with this tax policy.  What they do and how they do it will be of great interest to us all. 

[KhunHeineken]

34 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Just did my 12 month extension today. I'm very sorry to report not a word of taxes was mentioned.

Obviously, it may be something for the future.  The policy has only been in place for 4.5 months.  That's not even the minimum 180 days required to be a Thai resident for taxation purposes. 

 

No doubt, compliance and enforcement will be further discussed in another thread at some point. There will have to be some type of punishment for non compliance, otherwise, no one will bother paying their share of this tax. 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

24 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I was referring to the rental income that you mentioned in your previous post.  How do you propose your rental income be tax free either in Australia, or in Thailand? 

 

Your total income in Australia, if over the tax free threshold, attracts tax.  Move any of that rental income to Thailand, and it's remitted funds attracting tax.  

By not bringing those funds. Tax free in Thailand as not brought to Thailand. Simple. As I said this post is about Thai tax not Australian tax. Rent will be taxable in Australia. For people staying 12 months a year in Thailand that may cause problems but that is not likely to be my situation so simply be careful what funds are kept in each country.  

[Dogmatix]

23 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Mr. Dogmatix,

This Capital Gains thing is making my head spin. If you wouldn't mind, please share your thoughts on the following:

1. What if you sold stock or property in 2024 (that you bought 10 years ago) but you didn't remit any of it. You claimed any gains on your home country tax return for 2024. After that, it would seem to be savings, right? Then, somewhere down the line, maybe in 2026 or 2027, you remit that savings/money into Thailand. Would all of it be non-assessable or would the gains that you already paid tax on 3 years earlier be assessable income?

2. Same situation above, but you didn't have any gains. You still had to report the sale on your home country 2024 tax return, but no taxes, because no gains. Later you remit those monies to Thailand. Assessable or not?

3. You have $100k in savings (pre-2024 monies), earning interest monthly, and you transfer the interest out each month, and spend it, leaving the original $100k in the account to continue earning interest. Then, you remit the $100k in 2026 or 2027. The $100k was pre-2024 monies, right?. Would it be assessable or not?

Thanks.

 

Don't take this as gospel but my take would be:

 

1. I think your gains in 2024 are Thai assessable income because P. 161/2566 specifies foreign income earned in any prior year without limitation, although that was later reduced to any year starting from 1 Jan 2024 by P. 162/2566.  This is one of the big problems of a remittance tax on foreign earnings without detailed regulations. If this reinterpretation survives long term, folk could be looking paying Thai tax on 2024 earnings in 2044.  Anyway it looks as if you would have to claim a tax credit for tax paid in 2024, if you remit the gains in 2026 or 2027.  Many will not have paid any foreign tax on capital gains on stocks in countries where they are not tax resident.  Most jurisdictions are keen on charging withholding tax on dividends but even the US doesn't tax non-residents on cap gains.

 

2. There should be no Thai tax to pay on investments that resulted in losses or break even but how your prove this, if the RD queries the remittance may be a different story.

 

3.  The 100k principle should not be taxable in Thailand.  What you describe is the UK system for non-doms, i.e. the UK taxman requires that you classify remittances based on the highest tax liability first.  So the interest which is taxable on remittance is deemed remitted until it is all gone. Then the tax exempt principle.  That is in the UK regs but Thailand has no regs. So nothing to stop you saying you remitted the tax exempt principle first and left the interest to earn more interest.  RD officials will not be able to cope with this because they are trained to cite clauses in the Revenue Code to support their decisions.  In this case, they have nothing when the taxpayer argues that he remitted pre-2024 principal and never intends to remit the interest.  If the case went to the tax court, the judges would either have to make up a law though a ruling or say it is up to the taxpayer to decide whether he remitted principle or income. 

 

You can easily see what a mess this is going to lead to with Thai investors who have been actively investing overseas for many years, since the Thai economy and stock market went ex-growth, due to incompetent and corrupt economic management for years and they could see NASDAQ always going through the roof. But this is pure Thaksinism.  Issue a decree or an order to do what you want to do without bothering to think it though, completely bypassing parliament and the democratic process and let minions mop up the mess and try to make it work. If it can't be made to work, it was done by bureaucrat,. not the government and he can take the blame. 

[Mike Lister]

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Obviously, it may be something for the future.  The policy has only been in place for 4.5 months.  That's not even the minimum 180 days required to be a Thai resident for taxation purposes. 

 

No doubt, compliance and enforcement will be further discussed in another thread at some point. There will have to be some type of punishment for non compliance, otherwise, no one will bother paying their share of this tax. 

 

The penalties for non-compliance and for evading Thai tax can be very harsh and are described in the tax guide. 

[Dogmatix]

20 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

I get my UK CGT knowledge from actually writing the code for the UK's largest Stockbroker that calculated it for Bed & Breakfasting & the code that was used to produce annual CTC certificates, but that was pre the 1998 changes so admit things have changed since then, however how you calculate a Gain hasn't, perhaps you could share an alternative way of calculating the gain than the one I listed. 

 

 

Would also be interested in learning about any countries that use FIFO for doing (normal) Gains calculations & anything at all about how Thailand calculates CGT, from the Tax videos that I've seen it's on you to calculate the Gain and on your return apply that percentage to what you've remitted when listing your assessable  tax - If you're not going to do it using the rules of the country that the Asset is in & the country you are resident in doesn't have any rules, what rules would you suggest should be used?

 

 

I can't find the one that went into the calculation in more details but it's briefly covered in this one...

 

 

 

Those Carl Turner podcasts are good in parts like the curate's egg but the bits that are wrong or misleading are worrying.  In one of them he claimed that the RD gets a quarterly print out of all credit card expenditures on foreign cards by all Thai tax residents.  I checked with two overseas banks where I have accounts and they said that was complete nonsense and it is clearly not something reported under CRS. He replied to a request for a source by sending the details of CRS reporting which made clear it was not true.  In the podcast about the UK DTA the expert said you would have to declare the gross pre-tax UK taxed income on your Thai tax return and claim the tax credit. This is clearly wrong because Thailand is taxing on a remittance basis. So why would you declare gross UK income to the RD?  If you do that they will tax the gross amount and you will pay Thai tax on the UK tax paid before getting a tax credit. I would think you should declare on the amount remitted to Thailand net of UK tax and claim the tax credit against that. The expert is obviously used to global taxation systems where you have to declare the gross amount because all income is taxable whether it is remitted or not.  He was apparently unable to adjust his example for the remittance basis. 

 

I stopped listening after hearing several serious errors in these podcasts and finding nothing of value that I didn't already know. But as I said, they are good in parts, if you are able to steer clear of the toxic parts that might do you financial damage.

[KhunHeineken]

41 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

By not bringing those funds. Tax free in Thailand as not brought to Thailand. Simple. As I said this post is about Thai tax not Australian tax. Rent will be taxable in Australia. For people staying 12 months a year in Thailand that may cause problems but that is not likely to be my situation so simply be careful what funds are kept in each country.  

How is the rental income tax free in Australia, as a non resent of Australia for taxation purposes? 

 

If you are referring to the current loppholes, then yes, I am using them also, but they are definitely going to change.  (discussed in the other forum / thread)

 

Once you pay 32.5% non resident tax in Australia on that rental income in Australia, you will get tax credits under the DTA with Thailand, and that rental income will not be taxed twice.

 

What, exactly, are you trying to achieve? 

 

You are living in Thailand, therefore a non resident for tax purposes in Australia and up for 32.5% tax on that rental income, as it's from $0.  Moving it to Thailand after it is taxed in Australia is protected from double taxation under the DTA. 

[KhunHeineken]

39 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The penalties for non-compliance and for evading Thai tax can be very harsh and are described in the tax guide. 

This is a new policy, targeting remitted funds, which incorporates unemployed expats into the Thai tax system.  

 

A thread discussing how the Thai government will ensure collection of tax from remitted funds, and penalties for non paying said tax, may be an import thread.  

 

If you will not allow this to be discussed on this thread, should I start a new thread on the topic, or you do so? 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Once you pay 32.5% non resident tax in Australia on that rental income in Australia, you will get tax credits for the DTA with Thailand and that rental income will not be taxed twice.

 

What, exactly, are you trying to achieve? 

 

You are living in Thailand, therefore a non resident for tax purposes in Australia and up for 32.5% tax on that rental income, as it's from $0.  Moving it to Thailand after it is taxed in Australia is protected from double taxation under the DTA. 

The point of this post is thai tax. I was happy not to be paying thai tax and to keep life a bit simple even though I may have to lodge some sort of nil return.

As I said in previous posts my plan is to spend time in both countries and sometimes that may mean more than 180 days in Thailand. As you know and as I have said in these posts the rules in Australia are not simply that being over 183 days in a different country makes you a non-resident of Australia. With an ongoing home in Australia and other links I could spend more than half of the time in Thailand and still be an Australian resident. The rules you state are inevitable have not happened. So I will not pay tax on the first dollar and taxes on superannuation pensions for public servants have a special tax offset. If I one day decide to live in Thailand full time which I do not foresee it would be a different situation. 

[gamb00ler]

A question that I haven't seen asked yet is:  what about Thai PIT in the year that you pass away?  I wonder what TRD's rules regarding foreign assessable funds not yet remitted but bequeathed to a Thai tax resident will look like.

 

I don't know the details but there was a lot of tax paid on my mother's behalf when she passed away in Canada about 25 years ago.  At the time I had already left Canada so as executor I had to (over)pay an accountant to take care of her last filing.

[KhunHeineken]

15 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The point of this post is thai tax. I was happy not to be paying thai tax and to keep life a bit simple even though I may have to lodge some sort of nil return.

As I said in previous posts my plan is to spend time in both countries and sometimes that may mean more than 180 days in Thailand. As you know and as I have said in these posts the rules in Australia are not simply that being over 183 days in a different country makes you a non-resident of Australia. With an ongoing home in Australia and other links I could spend more than half of the time in Thailand and still be an Australian resident. The rules you state are inevitable have not happened. So I will not pay tax on the first dollar and taxes on superannuation pensions for public servants have a special tax offset. If I one day decide to live in Thailand full time which I do not foresee it would be a different situation. 

The discussion on the proposed changes to tax residency laws in Australia is best left to the other thread, in the other forum.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.  For me, it's not if, just when, those new laws will pass.  Until then, I will continue to enjoy the loopholes, as you do, but I would hardly call that planning for the future. 

 

As I said, at some future point, and in regards to the rental income, more than 183 days inside Australia for tax residency and the tax free threshold, and less than 180 days inside Thailand to be a non resident for tax purposes and to pay no tax on remitted funds.  

 

I know what you want to do.  You want to live in Thailand, don't move the rental income to Thailand, and appear to the Australian government you are still a resident of Australia for tax purposes.  The very reason the Australian government are changing their tax residency laws is to stop people circumventing them with the many loopholes in the current 90 year old laws.  

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

The discussion on the proposed changes to tax residency laws in Australia is best left to the other thread, in the other forum.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.  For me, it's not if, just when, those new laws will pass.  Until then, I will continue to enjoy the loopholes, as you do, but I would hardly call that planning for the future. 

 

As I said, at some future point, and in regards to the rental income, more than 183 days inside Australia for tax residency and the tax free threshold, and less than 180 days inside Thailand to be a non resident for tax purposes and to pay no tax on remitted funds.  

 

I know what you want to do.  You want to live in Thailand, don't move the rental income to Thailand, and appear to the Australian government you are still a resident of Australia for tax purposes.  The very reason the Australian government are changing their tax residency laws is to stop people circumventing them with the many loopholes in the current 90 year old laws.  

 

 

But what you leave out is that residency is not as simple as 180 days in many cases. I may go to Thailand and other places for 250 days but then return to my home in Australia. I don't think the rules are going to be as you say and I think the new rules if they do happen at some point in the future are more concerned with making sure individuals cannot say they are non resident when they residents. Things change stuff happens it is one small factor and if I did become a non resident it is not the end of the world or mean less options as such. 

But back to Thai tax it feels better to know that there is no tax even if that tax would not be substantial. 

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

n the podcast about the UK DTA the expert said you would have to declare the gross pre-tax UK taxed income on your Thai tax return and claim the tax credit. This is clearly wrong because Thailand is taxing on a remittance basis. So why would you declare gross UK income to the RD?  If you do that they will tax the gross amount and you will pay Thai tax on the UK tax paid before getting a tax credit. I would think you should declare on the amount remitted to Thailand net of UK tax and claim the tax credit against that. The expert is obviously

 

I was under the impression that you needed the total Gross and the total tax deducted, which would then you would proportion pro-rata for the tax credit relief, per pound remitted, if not 100%. "to avoid double relief' vie Personal allowances. The preferred 'home contry tax.authority cert would show it all anyway perhaps.

But then there would be the complication that part of that is non.taxable in Thailand

 

So it certainly it should not all go on.the filing to Thai RD but that which does, should havr 'x' p in the pound, credit relief available.

 

Where is That new filing form that had been suggested was to be issued by THRD. It would give some clues to what is.possible to be expressed. 

[topt]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Obviously, it may be something for the future.  The policy has only been in place for 4.5 months.  That's not even the minimum 180 days required to be a Thai resident for taxation purposes. 

 

No doubt, compliance and enforcement will be further discussed in another thread at some point. There will have to be some type of punishment for non compliance, otherwise, no one will bother paying their share of this tax. 

 

Have you actually bothered to read the rest of the thread as it went along?

What you are talking about has been discussed to death on here and you are just raking over old coals seemingly trying to get them to come ablaze......

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

This is a new policy, targeting remitted funds, which incorporates unemployed expats into the Thai tax system.  

No it is not.

Many, many Thais who should probably pay tax don't and we don't hear much if anything about that. Not only that, this was a tax rule change (not even a new tax) and was not initially specifically aimed at foreigners.

 

Rather than respond I suggest you go back and read the whole thread.........

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, topt said:

Have you actually bothered to read the rest of the thread as it went along?

What you are talking about has been discussed to death on here and you are just raking over old coals seemingly trying to get them to come ablaze......

No it is not.

Many, many Thais who should probably pay tax don't and we don't hear much if anything about that. Not only that, this was a tax rule change (not even a new tax) and was not initially specifically aimed at foreigners.

 

Rather than respond I suggest you go back and read the whole thread.........

The decision was taken not to rehash that topic, neither here nor in a separate thread. If and when it ever becomes real, then it can be debated.

[stat]

7 hours ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, at day one of this goat rope we were presented with a: "Show a DTA from your home country, and also a tax return, and you won't have to file a tax return with Thailand." Pretty simple -- and they could have Imm add this as on more item to check, along with TM47 and TM30. Imm wouldn't have to understand that your home country tax return maybe was just filed to get a return of overwithholding -- and no taxes were actually owed or paid. But, by also asking for a DTA, it assumes your home country tax return is kosher, relative to Thai tax filing requirements. Or, no home country tax return (Germany), then you have to file a Thai tax return, and maybe, now in your stay in Thailand, you have to pay somebody some taxes. Or maybe not. If assessable income in less than taxable income, it's just a required filing of a nil tax return, to flash at Immigration.

 

Haven't heard anything more about the home country DTA and tax return as a get-out-of-jail free avenue. But such an approach to this new ruling wouldn't cost many new hires, if any. And, it just might flush out a few new tax crumbs, like from Germans. If you recall from some other discussion, DTAs aren't just to preclude double taxation -- they're also there to preclude no no taxation. The OECD Model tax treaty writers are in the process of emphasizing this, with either new treaties (not likely), but with added protocols. And Thailand, anxious to earn some OECD bonafides as they apply for membership, may just get on board with not allowing no no taxation.

 

Anyway, pure conjecture. But you know they're not going to train a gaggle of RD clerks, with the added cost, to be familiar with 60 some odd DTAs. No, they'll just ask for a tax return from Thai tax residents, either a  home country return,  or Thai return. That a home country return may have to be translated into Thai or English -- hey, not their bother or cost. Something is going to happen -- and simplicity and no/low cost will be a factor. Which means: Don't expect a tax audit anywhere in your future -- unless, maybe, you wire a sh** load of money to Thailand. But even there, I wouldn't be too worried (and, of course, this pile of money was savings, a loan, an inhertitance, whatever -- easily explained away at an audit).

Like I said in my post: If they accept your documentation... No one knows, even in 2026 you could have another tax inspector and everything changes again.

[stat]

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, I put forward one simple, but possibly costly solution some time ago, and that is, expats simply pull their money out of ATM's using their home country Visa / Master Card.  I can't see how the Thai government can tax such transactions, especially due to the millions of tourists that do the same.  

 

If the ATM fees and exchange rates are cheaper than Thai tax, there's the solution, but usually these fees are high and exchange rates are poor. 

 

Of course, I was speaking in general.  Most transfer money from their home country into a Thai bank account, which is remitted funds.  Some Fly In Fly Out workers can get around the 180 days buy staying one rotation outside of Thailand, for example.  Everyone has different circumstances, but your typical expat retiree may have limited options and may have to pay some tax.  

 

The Thai government can't have expat retirees plodding along doing nothing about it, so I suggest either the banks have to be involved, or immigration require tax documents every year for the extension. 

 

I have no link to show this.  It's just an idea about they may go about compliance.   

I used cash withdrawal at the bank counter and saved the 220 Baht per ATM transaction. Just walk up with your passport and credit card. Limit at Bangkok Bank is around 150.000 baht per transaction. NB you need a cc that does not change extra for cash withdrawal. Works like a charm at Bangkok Bank and yellow bank Krungsri usually 2-5mins if you come at the right time. Yellow bank charges a little extra if you use a Visa Card but free with Mastercard.

[stat]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

As you say, exchange rates are poor and ATM fees are high so there is no incentive to go down that path. That said, when a tourist withdraws money from their overseas account, via an ATM, in most cases they wont remain here long enough to become tax resident hence there is no tax liability. But a tax resident who does the same, leaves themselves liable to Thai tax on that withdrawal, subject to the TRD ever finding out. For most people, using this method is low risk, high cost.

Exchange rates are actually not that bad with a 0% comission mastercard. I found them a bit worse compared to superrich Bangkok but at par with good cash money exchanges in the Hua Hin area also at par with money swift transfer including all swift cost. Wise and Revolut offer better rates but difficult to use their cards at ATM to get 100K Baht a month and above as they charge extra.

[stat]

A question from my side: Are most of you guys still a tax resident in your home country? For me one of the allures of Thailand is A that I do not have to do a tax report and B that I do not have to pay any German taxes besides withholding taxes. I was under the impression that most are only liable to Thai Tax with their international income.

[stat]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The penalties for non-compliance and for evading Thai tax can be very harsh and are described in the tax guide. 

Fully agree with Mike here! The risk may be low to get cought but if you get cought your in a real <deleted> show.

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, UKresonant said:

 

I was under the impression that you needed the total Gross and the total tax deducted, which would then you would proportion pro-rata for the tax credit relief, per pound remitted, if not 100%. "to avoid double relief' vie Personal allowances. The preferred 'home contry tax.authority cert would show it all anyway perhaps.

But then there would be the complication that part of that is non.taxable in Thailand

 

So it certainly it should not all go on.the filing to Thai RD but that which does, should havr 'x' p in the pound, credit relief available.

 

Where is That new filing form that had been suggested was to be issued by THRD. It would give some clues to what is.possible to be expressed. 

 

That would be the case with a UK tax return reporting foreign income for global taxation. But current Thai tax returns done online compute the tax payable after deductions for you and foreign source income must be entered in the spaces provided under the various sections of the Revenue Code that the income arose. Thus pension income must be entered in the section for income from employment.  Once you have done that, the system will add it to the total of assessable income.  It is possible that new forms will be designed with lengthy sections dealing with foreign source income and spaces to apply for tax credits incorporating the nuances of all 61 DTAs. In this case they might ask taxpayers to enter gross pre-tax foreign source income without taxing the gross amount. But I think this is a fantasy and for now you should only declare assessable income.

[Lorry]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The calculation is done based on entry and exit stamps in the passport, it only takes five minutes to do..

5 minutes?

In my experience it took a week.

And it was not always correct. 

If I do it myself,  it can take  30 minutes or more. Lots of ext and entry stamps all over my passport, sometimes in no particular order

[Lorry]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

As you say, exchange rates are poor and ATM fees are high so there is no incentive to go down that path. That said, when a tourist withdraws money from their overseas account, via an ATM, in most cases they wont remain here long enough to become tax resident hence there is no tax liability. But a tax resident who does the same, leaves themselves liable to Thai tax on that withdrawal, subject to the TRD ever finding out. For most people, using this method is low risk, high cost.

I don't know what exchange rate you guys get.

I get an exchange rate at the ATM better than Vasu's  rate for cash.

Even including the fee of 220B, what I get is the same as if I would have  exchanged cash at Vasu. Superrich is slightly better than Vasu.

 

PS I see that stat has more or less said the same, he was faster

 

PPS Vasu is the biggest money changer on lower Sukhumvit. Good rates. Rates for cash are sometimes marginally better at Superrich opposite Central World.

[TheAppletons]

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

This is a new policy, targeting remitted funds, which incorporates unemployed expats into the Thai tax system.  

 

 

  Uh, no, it isn't.  If that's the foundation of your argument then there's little reason to listen to anything else you have to say.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

I don't know what exchange rate you guys get.

I get an exchange rate at the ATM better than Vasu's  rate for cash.

Even including the fee of 220B, what I get is the same as if I would have  exchanged cash at Vasu. Superrich is slightly better than Vasu.

 

PS I see that stat has more or less said the same, he was faster

 

PPS Vasu is the biggest money changer on lower Sukhumvit. Good rates. Rates for cash are sometimes marginally better at Superrich opposite Central World.

I stand corrected, maybe I'm not up to date with ATM based ex rates.

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

5 minutes?

In my experience it took a week.

And it was not always correct. 

If I do it myself,  it can take  30 minutes or more. Lots of ext and entry stamps all over my passport, sometimes in no particular order

5 minutes or 30 minutes, whatever, unless you're in and out of the country every week, it's not a day long exercise. During the years I traveled extensively for work, I maintained a spreadsheet showing my whereabouts every day, for tax purposes, it makes entertaining reading now, so many years later. 

[JohnnyBD]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I stand corrected, maybe I'm not up to date with ATM based ex rates.

I'm not so sure you and him are talking apples to apples. He may be talking about using Thai bank debit card at ATM or exchanging cash. I tried my US Chase bank debit card yesterday as a test at a SCB ATM and when I checked my Chase acct to see how much USD they deducted from my acct, I was shocked. The conversion rate was only 34.65. The spot rate at the time was 36.67. I am a Chase Private Client so they will reimburse me the 220B fee, but I didn't think the conversion rate was going to be so bad, so I set up a test wire xfer and selected to send THB instead of USD just to see, and the rate was 35.69. I canceled the wire. I always wire USD and convert in Thailand for the best rate. So, the best I can figure is the ATM cost was the 35.69 rate minus a 3% fee which comes out to ~ 34.65 THB rate. Very costly. I will never be using my Chase debit card at ATM in Thailand. Chase doesn't charge me an outgoing wire fee when I send USD, so I will only do wires from now on.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

I'm not so sure you and him are talking apples to apples. He may be talking about using Thai bank debit card at ATM or exchanging cash. I tried my US Chase bank debit card yesterday as a test at a SCB ATM and when I checked my Chase acct to see how much USD they deducted from my acct, I was shocked. The conversion rate was only 34.27. The spot rate at the time was 36.67. I am a Chase Private Client so they will reimburse me the 220B fee, but I didn't think the conversion rate was going to be so bad, so I set up a test wire xfer and selected to send THB instead of USD just to see, and the rate was 35.69. I canceled the wire. I always wire USD and convert in Thailand for the best rate. So, the best I can figure is the ATM cost was the 35.69 rate minus a 3% fee which comes out to ~ 34.27 THB rate. Very costly. I will never be using my Chase debit card at ATM in Thailand. Chase doesn't charge me an outgoing wire fee when I send USD, so I will only do wires from now on.

Thanks for that. You know I kinda thought that was the case but since I haven't used ATM's for international transfers or withdrawals in over two decades so I really couldn't be sure. I'm pretty sure if I used my HSBC UK debit card in a Thai ATM that I'd get hammered for charges but I'm not about to run a test and find out. 🙂

[JohnnyBD]

27 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Thanks for that. You know I kinda thought that was the case but since I haven't used ATM's for international transfers or withdrawals in over two decades so I really couldn't be sure. I'm pretty sure if I used my HSBC UK debit card in a Thai ATM that I'd get hammered for charges but I'm not about to run a test and find out. 🙂

I just looked at my payslip from the ATM, and It shows 20,000 THB withdrawal, exchange rate 36.53, access fee 220 THB, and total USD of $583.5497. So, when I first looked at the exchange rate, I thought wow that's a good rate, but when you actually do the math 20,220 THB ÷ $583.5497 USD = 34.65 THB. I will get reimbursed the 220B fee by Chase, but I really should have done a smaller test withdrawal, my bad. I won't be doing that ever again.